Author Topic: Rocky IV  (Read 3909 times)

hewantstolurkatad

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Rocky IV
« on: August 23, 2016, 06:07:00 PM »
The series reaching its natural peak in its silly excessive nature and broad themes or the worst of the films for how it utterly sacrifices everything about the character of Rocky that made him loveable in the first place?

I think it's the worst in the series. As bad as five is, I find something to like about how extensively Stallone tried to correct the course by pulling Rocky down spectacularly from the levels of wealth and success in the fourth film.

Dr Rock

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 06:10:43 PM »
But he sorts out the cold war at the end!

(Spoiler)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsJnxlXepsY


Very moving stuff.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 06:10:46 PM »
It's not great as a Rocky Film, but as a music video for some triumphant eighties soft rock...it's great.

Quickest hour and a half in Hollywood history too.

And the fight is pretty cool, 'I must break you'.

hewantstolurkatad

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 06:18:12 PM »
Quickest hour and a half in Hollywood history too.

Quicker than Rocky III? The film that opens with that montage of Mr T getting pissed off and leaving venues soundtracked to Eye of the Tiger?


III ranks pretty high among the most fun films I ever saw. Thought it was amazing when I was six, still think it's really f*cking fun to this day

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 06:20:07 PM »
Three is a great film...I only really dislike 5, that Creed wasn't too hot though, technically a Rocky film.

Kelvin

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 06:22:06 PM »
The series reaching its natural peak in its silly excessive nature and broad themes or the worst of the films for how it utterly sacrifices everything about the character of Rocky that made him loveable in the first place?

I think it's the worst in the series. As bad as five is, I find something to like about how extensively Stallone tried to correct the course by pulling Rocky down spectacularly from the levels of wealth and success in the fourth film.

I truly believe the first film isn't just a good film, but a genuinely great film, way above any other entry in the series and 99% of it's imitators.

Great script, great direction, great characters, an inspiring but believable story. There are a few other good films in the series, but like you, I think 4 is the absolute worst. Fun trash, is the best I can say for it, but in truth, I think it's genuinely boring.

I also think that Rocky 5 is better than people give it credit for. At least that film contrives a way to return things to where they started and yet at the same time try something a little different. Id rather watch 5 or 6 than 3 or 4 certainly. 

hewantstolurkatad

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 06:32:15 PM »
Creed was fairly hit and miss for me. For the most part I wasn't feeling it but the were admirably restrained with how they used Rocky.
The last third or so was pretty great though iirc, got all them Rocky vibes going.

Will defend 3 forever but the direction it sends Rocky in leaves no option but to do something like the absolute teardown that occurs with V.



Stallone is an interesting guy. Extremely fragile ego and at least puts on a front that he cares more about $$$ than respect, but doing what he done with Rocky V was a bold and risky move that surely at least partially stemmed from how he had bastardised his one creative achievement. He has hardly ever tried to act seriously and when he has he's been embarrased to talk it up.
A lot of it probably stems from the absolute disaster that was Paradise Alley. With freedom to do whatever after Rocky he wrote, directed, starred in and sung the theme song for it[1], only for it to flop hugely. Don't think his ego has ever recovered.
 1. Which is one of the most amazingly awful things I've ever found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EArj13Lsfs

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 06:56:13 PM »
It's not great as a Rocky Film, but as a music video for some triumphant eighties soft rock...it's great.

Quickest hour and a half in Hollywood history too.

And the fight is pretty cool, 'I must break you'.

It must set a record for the highest percentage of screentime as montage, that and the Drago/Creed fight/enterance is really the main thing to recommend it I'd say.

The fifth film did have its heart in the right place but Washington Duke being such a cartoon and Tommy Morrison generally undermine it for me.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 07:12:56 PM »
I saw this when it came out using the free tickets you used to get for taking a copy of The Sun to the Odean box office. My school was right in the middle of Leeds, and because of a teacher's strike, we were left to roam around at dinner time. As a consequence, half the school seemed to have done the same thing. The 'free ticket' showing was mental, with lots of school fights being settled/continued/started.

Two days later, me and a mate went and saw it again.

Not a patch on Rocky, or III (80's film par excellence), but fun stuff.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 07:15:42 PM »

It's one of the worst documentaries I've ever seen.

non capisco

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 11:19:27 PM »
The best thing about Rocky IV is its inference that Paulie is having sex with the robot butler that Rocky buys for him.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 11:36:29 PM »
The climactic fight in Rocky II is the best boxing sequence in the whole franchise. Anyone who disagrees is a fucking tool.

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2016, 11:39:39 PM »
The best thing about Rocky IV is its inference that Paulie is having sex with the robot butler that Rocky buys for him.
You've actually done that thing where you confuse infer and imply. It's comes up as the thing the smart one picks up on the dumb one doing a lot in fiction, but this is the first time I've noticed a real person doing it.

I'm the smart one by the way.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 10:13:42 AM »
Rocky and Rocky 2 both brilliant (I think of 2 more as a second chapter and direct continuation of 1, as opposed to a regular sequel).

3 and 4 are silly but entertaining guff, although 3 is miles better than 4 and actually has some genuinely good moments that wouldn't have been out of place in 1 or 2.

5 I've never really liked, and most of the acting is terrible.  Almost feels like a straight to vid film.

Rocky Balboa is brilliant - genuine pathos without being schmaltzy.  It would have been better if he lost outright (because, again, the point of Balboa is not winning, but going the distance), but otherwise it's worthy.  Christ knows why all the critics preferred the abysmal soft focus bollocks of Cinderella Man.

I haven't yet seen Creed.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 10:19:44 AM »
It's not great as a Rocky Film, but as a music video for some triumphant eighties soft rock...it's great.

Absolutely. I had the soundtrack on tape and listened to it on my walkman constantly for months. I hadn't heard it for 20-odd years and downloaded it recently and still knew pretty much every song.

I wasn't even a fan of that sort of music at the time, or now. I just loved it because I loved the film as a whatever-year-old kid. Probably my first real introduction to James Brown as well

non capisco

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2016, 12:10:25 PM »
You've actually done that thing where you confuse infer and imply. It's comes up as the thing the smart one picks up on the dumb one doing a lot in fiction, but this is the first time I've noticed a real person doing it.

I'm the smart one by the way.

Well done you.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2016, 12:26:17 PM »
The climactic fight in Rocky II is the best boxing sequence in the whole franchise. Anyone who disagrees is a fucking tool.

The second Clubber Lang fight in Rocky 3 is the most cheese-tastic load of nonsense ever put on film. The sound effects alone are amazing, never mind the sheer amount of ridiculous head shots both take without it being stopped.

Also, I've always loved the 'make it clear or the audience won't understand' bit of dialogue where Rocky responds to Clubber calling him a 'crazy fool' after a round by saying 'Yeah? I may be stoopid, but I ain't breathin' heavy!'

Also; 'What's your prediction for the fight then?'
'Prediction?'
'Yes, prediction.'
<pauses>
<looks into camera>
'Pain.'

Awesome!

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2016, 12:32:03 PM »
Love the first four.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2016, 03:54:47 PM »
It’s growing/grown “Lol 80s lads, legendary” status as the best of the series may be undeserved, but I certainly think it’s a hell of a lot better than V, even taken as a drama. Trying to return to the grounded approach of the first movie was theoretically admirable, but the film itself is a depressing, cheesy melodrama, which isn’t at all what the first film was. Even if you can get past the absurd (and poorly realised) way Rocky instantly loses all of his money and goes back to living on his old streets, I don’t think there’s a single genuinely effective or affecting scene. As a direct continuation from the previous movies, even accounting for variations in tone, it doesn’t fit in at all, certainly the oft-mentioned age jump of Rocky Jr., but also the clumsy inversion of Rocky’s increasing domestication and increasing (relative) sophistication through parts III and IV. It’s not unwatchable or even a struggle to sit through, and I can understand why someone would prefer it to IV, but it’s a bland, fairly dull film with little to recommend it, especially as VI and Creed covered the territory far, far more successfully.

I think it’s often overlooked, perhaps deliberately, that IV critiques jingoistic “Us Against Them” American Cold War attitudes as much as it panders to them; Apollo (and James Brown) represent uncompromising American aggression and is punished for it (though Brown gets away with it and has his biggest ever hit single), Rocky goes to Russia to train and gains strengths from embracing their surroundings and culture, wants and appreciate the respect of their crowd. As dumb as it is I think it’s heart is in a better place than Red Dawn or even Stallone’s own Rambo sequels.

But at the risk of getting a bit “Lol 80s lads, legendary” Vince DiCola had an impossibly awesome track record as composer (this and the original Transformers movie) for about 18 years, but had to ruin it by coming out of hiding to score a couple of terrible Don “The Dragon” Wilson movies (OK, I only saw one of them, but I think I got the gist)

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2016, 07:49:24 PM »
Rocky IV is just Rocky III with a little bitta politics.

Arguably the most formulaic film of all time too. But even Stallone thinks Rocky V is abysmal and he's rightfully ashamed of it.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2016, 08:26:51 PM »
I think it’s often overlooked, perhaps deliberately, that IV critiques jingoistic “Us Against Them” American Cold War attitudes as much as it panders to them; Apollo (and James Brown) represent uncompromising American aggression and is punished for it (though Brown gets away with it and has his biggest ever hit single), Rocky goes to Russia to train and gains strengths from embracing their surroundings and culture, wants and appreciate the respect of their crowd. As dumb as it is I think it’s heart is in a better place than Red Dawn or even Stallone’s own Rambo sequels.

Pretty much, as cheesy as it's hardly just an "evil reds" film, even Drago ends up rejecting his political handler.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2016, 11:06:57 PM »
Bloody love Rocky IV. Whilst I'm fully aware it's not a great film it will always be one of my favourite ever movies purely because it always instantly transports me straight back to being thirteen again and suddenly I'm coming out of the cinema with my best mate after seeing it for the first time with us both punching the air every step of the walk home. Even now some 30 odd years later we will still greet each other with Apollos' camp "ding, ding!" from the end of Rocky III/start of Rocky IV when we meet up.

A lot of that was certainly down to the soundtrack, which I played non-stop for months when it came out, even though at the time it certainly wasn't the sort of stuff I was into at all. I still play it occasionally now too, although that's mainly to annoy my wife as I have to sing every word and end up screaming "THERE'S NO SHORTCUT HOME!" at her in the car. Even now if I accidental turn over to it on ITV4 or something and they are showing it then I have to watch the whole thing, even though I've got it on DVD somewhere.

Did anyone ever read "Drago - On Mountains We Stand"? It's a really short unofficial novel that continues after the film finishes, and tells what happens to Drago, Rocky and also Clubber after the events of the film. I believe you can still get it for a voluntary donation, supposedly from the estate of the apparently long dead author, Todd Noy, but I don't believe he ever existed for one minute and it's obviously just a pseudonym for someone who didn't want to get sued. Been a while since I read it but it was really short (literally a 20 minute read over 70 or so pages), even more ridiculous than Rocky IV and not particularly great from what I remember. If I can find my copy and anyone wants it I'll gladly pop it in the post for them for nowt. 

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2016, 11:10:56 PM »
The poster for Rocky V made it look like Rocky IV 2.



Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Dr Rock

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2016, 11:19:46 PM »
I love Living In America. It was written by Dan Hartman right? Not like any other James Brown single really, but as a teenage goth we would baffle townie DJs who dreaded us making requests because they thought we were going to ask for Bauhaus or something and instead asked for Living In America, which we would then all dance to (not very well).

edit 'Superhighways, coast to coast, easy to get anywhere'' Yeah take that Russia!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5BL4RNFr58

dr beat

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2016, 01:54:58 AM »
In 2002, I experienced a very, very low point, following some badly failed academic and personal ventures, all my fault.  One night, after watching 'When Snooker Ruled The World' (which it still does) this was on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCr6gwFc3j8

For better or worse, that 5:47 you see above - was a defining moment. Yes, there is lots going on.  3 years after being offered a PhD in a different discipline,  I watched this clip.  3 years later, after being offered a permanent academic position.  I watched this clip. 

Still, when I need to, I watch this clip.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 02:11:04 AM by dr beat »

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2016, 01:36:42 PM »
According to Wikipedia:

Quote
Rocky IV has also been interpreted as a commentary on the power struggle between technology and humans, illustrated by both Paulie's robot and the technology utilized by Drago's trainers. 

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2016, 06:17:18 PM »

Did anyone ever read "Drago - On Mountains We Stand"? It's a really short unofficial novel that continues after the film finishes, and tells what happens to Drago, Rocky and also Clubber after the events of the film. I believe you can still get it for a voluntary donation, supposedly from the estate of the apparently long dead author, Todd Noy, but I don't believe he ever existed for one minute and it's obviously just a pseudonym for someone who didn't want to get sued. Been a while since I read it but it was really short (literally a 20 minute read over 70 or so pages), even more ridiculous than Rocky IV and not particularly great from what I remember. If I can find my copy and anyone wants it I'll gladly pop it in the post for them for nowt.

You going to post this? Yes I am a lazy bastard

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Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2016, 01:13:29 PM »
The best thing about Rocky IV is its inference that Paulie is having sex with the robot butler that Rocky buys for him.

The existence of the robot butler alone is the best thing about it.

The Rocky films take place in a universe that includes sentient robot servants and it's not even close to being the focus of the film. Amazing.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2020, 09:41:04 AM »
Stallone is releasing a director's cut of Rocky IV but without the robot as he's no fun any more.

Re: Rocky IV
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2020, 10:07:59 AM »
Rocky IV is great, a distillation of the Rocky franchise formula into its cleanest, purest form. A sports film diamond - all the daft stuff we remember without any of the other fluff.

Rocky III on the other hand is like that but fails miserably, in my opinion. The Hulk Hogan stuff is pointless and drags the pacing down; Mr. T is a less interesting Apollo Creed, and if I'm going to take a cartoonishly broad villain I'd go with Ivan Drago's ridiculous terminator character every time. Also, maybe this is a bit unfair, but over exposure in pop culture has ruined Mr. T's persona.

Rocky II is a boring rehash of the original. V starts off good but Tommy Gunn and Rocky's son ruin it.

VI is decent. Creed is awful. Creed II slightly better I think, still not great.

Ranking:

1
4
6
2
3
Creed 2
5
Creed 1