Author Topic: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)  (Read 60027 times)

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2016, 05:52:09 PM »
Confession time: I found RDR quite dull and basically made myself finish it because I felt I had to give it a fair chance. It strikes me as like any Rockstar game, great world building, decent writing compared to most AAA games, bloody awful feel and mechanics.

Really?  I just can't understand that kind of criticism.  The mechanics were remarkably simple and intuitive, I thought, especially given the amount of stuff you can do.  Like I said, swimming aside, I very rarely came to a point where I thought "ah I wish I could ..." like I do in most games.

I may be hugely biased because I love the aesthetic, but then again I love the aesthetic of New York in games yet thought GTA IV was a load of old shit.

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2016, 06:02:37 PM »
Really?  I just can't understand that kind of criticism.  The mechanics were remarkably simple and intuitive, I thought, especially given the amount of stuff you can do.  Like I said, swimming aside, I very rarely came to a point where I thought "ah I wish I could ..." like I do in most games.

I may be hugely biased because I love the aesthetic, but then again I love the aesthetic of New York in games yet thought GTA IV was a load of old shit.

I loved GTA San Andreas, but likewise, I thought GTA IV was crap. GTA V was excellent but it didn't top Red Dead.

Red Dead had a mythical element to it and while its slower pace may not be to others liking, I felt that was its strength. The ambiance of the game was incredible and the characters were excellent. Of course, to execute this fully, there had to be great gameplay and I thought the realistic and gritty nature of the missions only served the overall style well.

Nobody Soup

  • ephedrine and orange juice... and also ket
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2016, 06:07:11 PM »
I remember the controls took a while to get used to, I wasn't really any good at the game until I was way into the second section but I did get the hang of it.

my hopes and dream include the heist idea from GTA V being fully realised, bank robberies and train robberies seem too good to miss out on, and while I hope they scale back the amount of western cliches (we don't need mexicans, native indians, lawman, all in a single game) there's a ton of stuff they can pinch from films that would be cool.

the characters people have mentioned sound fine, as long as the loose cannon guy isn't another Trevor and more along the lines of a Doc Holliday, drunk and vaguely reckless but not a psychopath, but the potential for a small posse is obviously awesome, varying 4th characters at certain points would be kinda cool too.

I've no doubts the game will be stunning, which is kinda what made the first one so good, just play into it a bit more, there was something amazing about riding in an empty desert as the sun went down over the mountains, having a mexican act gay for comic effect took away from that.

apparently it's officially announced now for autumn 2017 with the trailer hitting on thursday.

Penfold

  • Y'all hear 'em sireens?
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2016, 06:11:51 PM »
One of my favourite game moments is from RDR.

When I first arrived in Mexico I was making my way to the camp and the sun was setting and that Jose Gonzalez song was playing. Looked great.

Always wondered if the time of day was scripted or if I got lucky and never took the time to check youtube for an answer.

mobias

  • Member
  • **
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2016, 06:13:14 PM »
I found RDR way better and more immersive than I expected to. Partly because the online was so good and when they released the Undead Nightmare DLC it was just the icing on the cake. The whole thing was just so well done, for the most part anyway. I had more fun with it than I ended up having with GTAV truth be told. RDR was just a much more focussed open world gaming experience.

It'll be interesting to see just how much playing through Witcher 3 has influenced my appreciation of Rockstar's open world games. I know its a very different game but its still fundamentally a similar open world story driven game powered by the same sort of gaming mechanics. Witcher 3 raised the bar for Rockstar to reach I think.

I'm intrigued to see what Rockstar's first proper game this generation looks and feels like so looking forward to seeing the trailer on Thursday.

I've read a few people joke that when Rockstar say its going to be released Fall of 2017 what they really mean is Spring 2018 or even Summer 2018. From what I can gather they were hoping to get it out Spring of next year so by saying Fall of next year I think we can be reasonably confident we will see it then.

Bhazor

  • Are you rolling your own jelly babies in there?
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2016, 06:51:01 PM »
Are you sure this is a cowboy game? Because it sounds more like pirates

The Masked Unit

  • Sneaky ass alley cat top pedigree
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2016, 07:38:26 PM »
Are you sure this is a cowboy game? Because it sounds more like pirates

Is that a spunking knob on the left there?

Consignia

  • Deviant
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • E.T.
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2016, 07:57:17 PM »
No, it's a bell-end curve. Don't worry, it's normal.

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2016, 11:42:04 AM »

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2016, 12:29:02 PM »
Really?  I just can't understand that kind of criticism.  The mechanics were remarkably simple and intuitive, I thought, especially given the amount of stuff you can do.  Like I said, swimming aside, I very rarely came to a point where I thought "ah I wish I could ..." like I do in most games.

I may be hugely biased because I love the aesthetic, but then again I love the aesthetic of New York in games yet thought GTA IV was a load of old shit.

I suppose I come at 'mechanics' in a different way, like, whether they feel satisfying and weighty and responsive, rather than 'the stuff you can do'. This is something Rockstar have tried to improve but compared to, say, Nintendo or From Software or even Naughty Dog (who made big improvements with UC4, yet still can't quite shake off the sluggish 'trigger an animation' feeling), they're way behind, because it's not something many of their fans seem to value.

They make great games for you to fill in the gaps with your imagination. They make great games for emergent storytelling, lots of unexpected reactions and consequences, more often than not, you turn off their games with a little story to tell about some scrape you got into or crazy thing which happened. It's absolutely remarkable how they do that and make it feel so organic, for the most part.

They don't feel like anything in particular, though. There's no joy of movement. The traversal is clunky. Trying to hop over a fence ruins the illusion nine times out of ten. Having to repeatedly press X to run is absolutely absurd and makes moving around on foot a chore. Melee is weightless. Jumping looks weird. Shooting lacks impact, though GTAV did improve on this. The driving is good enough, but very basic. Riding in RDR is also fine, but nothing more. The mechanics just aren't a focus in Rockstar games, basically. It's all about the world and the complex emergent interactions.


Twed

  • "J" Joe Jeans and his jelly beans
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2016, 01:55:14 PM »
That's one of the most insightful things I've read about games in a long time (not sarcasm).

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2016, 02:17:32 PM »
[In R* Games] There's no joy of movement.

Clearly someone never tried Jumping/punching at the same time in GTAV ;)

mobias

  • Member
  • **
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2016, 06:31:27 PM »


They don't feel like anything in particular, though. There's no joy of movement. The traversal is clunky. Trying to hop over a fence ruins the illusion nine times out of ten. Having to repeatedly press X to run is absolutely absurd and makes moving around on foot a chore. Melee is weightless. Jumping looks weird. Shooting lacks impact, though GTAV did improve on this. The driving is good enough, but very basic. Riding in RDR is also fine, but nothing more. The mechanics just aren't a focus in Rockstar games, basically. It's all about the world and the complex emergent interactions.

See, I disagree with a lot of that, to a certain extent anyway. I know its a personal taste thing though. If you're in this beautifully realised open word gaming environment then it makes perfect sense to me to have the default speed your character moves at to be a walking one, just like in real life. You want to be able to walk slowly and take in the world, or at least I do. It always bugged the hell out of me playing Witcher 3 that Geralt's default movement was basically him scampering everywhere. It lowers the immersion level for me. I don't want to explore that beautiful open world at that pace.

It won't surprise me at all for future Rockstar games including RDR2 to have the default character movement optional so you can either choose running or walking. Or for it be dynamic so the animation engine actually knows you're in a situation where you want to run as default without mashing X all the time.

For my tastes the recent GTA games have some of the the best character animations out there and the best balance of weight to character movement ratio. That Euphoria physics engine just gives so much detail to everything. I know some people really don't like it though and find it too slow. Red Dead Redemption was a real step up from GTAIV's slightly slumbering animations but when it came to GTAV they had to gut it all out as there wasn't anywhere near enough memory to have all the animation detailing of RDR or GTAIV.   

It'll be interesting to see what RDR2 is like.

 

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2016, 07:54:31 PM »
It's a very good point about the walking speed, and one I completely agree with. I actually only got into The Witcher 3 when I decided to just turn off the music, stop doing quests and wander round soaking up the world. That feeling still sticks with me, it's my enduring memory of the game, far far more than any characters or quests. Actually, the night with Triss at the party, that was pretty magical. I genuinely fell for the character a tiny bit. Anyway...

Come back to GTAV, and my enduring memory is of driving round of an evening, parking up just off the freeway by some wind turbines as Chicago kicks in, then seeing some fella go past on a bike, helping myself to it and riding up to the top of some hill and bombing it down. Close behind that though is just wandering without doing anything in particular, finding these little corners, climbing a ladder up to a roof, finding that maze in the tech quarter. I absolutely loved that stuff. I do really like walking simulators, too. All of that I think is marvellous, actually.

It's everything else. And I felt much the same about Red Dead. For all the talk of a more measured tone and dramatic writing, I found it hackneyed and tonally wonky. The humour is almost universally abysmal, as with all Rockstar games, but I can forgive that. Coming back to the Euphoria engine, which I think was a massive step forward, it's not just the sluggishness, it's the simple sense that the movement and mechanics tend only to obstruct the game's achievements, rather than elevate them, or even exist to be enjoyable in their own right. They are entirely serviceable, and that's basically my issue.

Good discussion, though, and I enjoyed your post and what it recalled.

mobias

  • Member
  • **
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2016, 08:46:32 PM »
I think the over riding feeling you get with GTA is that its the ultimate jack of all trades but master of none. Certainly as far as the actual gaming side of it is concerned. Everything is serviceable and does as good a job as it needs to do but really no better. When you think about it its very confined by the constraints of that sort of open world game. The things that it can become master of, driving around soaking up the world whilst listening to music is where it overwhelmingly succeeds. I suppose the problem is thats not where the actual gameplay is. 

I ended up enjoying RDR a lot more than I thought I would coming off playing GTAIV because Rockstar had to be more focussed with it and by and large the humour of GTA was dispensed with. RDR was by no means perfect but I still found it a more satisfying experience than GTAV which I think suffered too much from Rockstar addressing the criticisms of GTAIV by going too far in the opposite direction.






HappyTree

  • Diz <3
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2016, 09:41:50 PM »
I put off playing RDR for ages because I hate westerns. Most boring genre of film there is. But I had to check it out and it quickly became one of my favourite games of all time. Thanks for reminding me I downloaded the zombie thing and haven't played it yet!

What I liked most about it was the feel, strangely enough. I would always choose to ride to places myself rather than quick travel. Galloping around was the main part of the joy, to me.

I, too, like the walking simulator aspect of these open worlds, so I always enjoy the fetch quests. After a while of picking flowers I started to have the same reflex "Oh look, blue flowers over there!" in real life. A couple of times I thought about dead-eying real birds gliding in the sky. The whole thing was so well realised. Funny to learn that the code under it was a mess!

Finally getting the better of that fucking cougar cunt for the hunter achievements, wow that was intense. Scouring the plains beside the river, trying to find the one I'd wounded but then had to run away from. Being a bit crap at dead eye but having to master it to shoot guns out of people's hands. Waking up in Mexico and beating everyone at poker. I wish I could erase my memory and do it all again.

You can cell I'm looking forward to the next one!

As for GTA, I abandoned 4 because the driving felt really bad. But it feels good in 5 so they really worked on the weight of the cars there. I also like how the character can climb up a lot of things. I'm still playing it, almost every night while I listen to the radio, determined to find all the scraps and spaceship parts by myself without looking up a guide. 25/50 so far! I like just trying to climb up things, finding a bus and a car to act as a step up, etc.

Yeah I think Rockstar deserve their status pretty well.

mobias

  • Member
  • **
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2016, 10:01:17 PM »
I just noticed RDR2 is the number one trending topic on Facebook. Its kind of a bit mad how crazy people are going for this. It shows you just well liked RDR1 was that people are pretty much going as crazy about the announcement of RDR2 as they would about a GTA announcement. Rockstar really have created another monster gaming franchise.

MojoJojo

  • Member
  • **
  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2016, 11:05:06 PM »
I'd just like to remind people about how incredible popular western films were at the time.

Completely dominated films. Superhero films would be a valid comparison.

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2016, 12:55:53 AM »
I just noticed RDR2 is the number one trending topic on Facebook. Its kind of a bit mad how crazy people are going for this. It shows you just well liked RDR1 was that people are pretty much going as crazy about the announcement of RDR2 as they would about a GTA announcement. Rockstar really have created another monster gaming franchise.

Yeah, it's even got a social justice shitstorm brewing already!

Bhazor

  • Are you rolling your own jelly babies in there?
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2016, 01:12:08 AM »
Just noticed theres 7 gunmen. Clearly a reference to Ocean's Eleven.

Neomod

  • Oh my genitals | I'm a janitor
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2016, 04:02:20 PM »

The Masked Unit

  • Sneaky ass alley cat top pedigree
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2016, 04:10:47 PM »
Looks absolutely beautiful, but really wish the trailer showed a bit more.

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2016, 04:12:23 PM »
Literally the most predictable thing I could have ever imagined.

Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2016, 04:15:03 PM »
Feels like they forgot to upload the second half of the trailer. Looks stunning but I guess we have to wait and see how much of that actually carries to regular PS4 play.

Bhazor

  • Are you rolling your own jelly babies in there?
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2016, 04:15:16 PM »

The Masked Unit

  • Sneaky ass alley cat top pedigree
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2016, 04:51:40 PM »
And no NX Switch version either, we assume?

Neomod

  • Oh my genitals | I'm a janitor
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2016, 04:58:44 PM »
It's very pretty and doesn't give much away but a year off that's to be expected really. No mexico this time judging by the landscapes shown. Town looked a bit Deadwood-esque and I loved this.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 05:24:34 PM by Neomod »

Nobody Soup

  • ephedrine and orange juice... and also ket
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2016, 05:26:44 PM »
from the leaked map it seemed to be extending north from the great plains setting so I guess the absence of a mexican setting was to be expected.

maybe one slight disappointment, though it's a thing that could certainly be coming later, but I'd really like to have seen more snowy settings, but perhaps that will come when they've done the basics and will add the snow later.

these scenes have always looked amazing in films like the assassination of jesse james..., the revenant, mcabe and mrs miller and Django unchained and would provide an interesting look for the game rather than the typical dried out, sweaty western images.

they had a bit of a snowy mountain stage in the original, but a full on snowy western landscape, with your character wearing a big wolfskin jacket would be amazing.



mobias

  • Member
  • **
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2016, 06:05:36 PM »
Looks absolutely beautiful, but really wish the trailer showed a bit more.

There's a full year of Rockstar's traditional marketing juggernaut ahead of us though.

Anyway it looks amazing and pretty much as I expected it to. GTAV's graphics with a few more layers of detail over them.

Bhazor

  • Are you rolling your own jelly babies in there?
Re: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Equestrian Boogaloo)
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2016, 09:32:54 PM »
Rockstar are among the worst at dragging the media drip feed out as far as possible. Expect another $100million advertising campaign for the 6 months leading to release.