Old Doctor Who - Part 3

[purlieu]

Yeah, I'm hoping there's a 'watch with original episodes' option rather than having to flip back and forth between menus. Looks like they're marching forward with season four, anyway. Be interesting to see how the full-series BluRay of that is marketed in America, given that they're following the 'Tom Baker Season 1' model.

So, Loving the Alien.

Tucker and Perry close 'Season 27' with a bang. A sequel to Illegal Alien, and tying up the 'Ace's death' plot teased in Prime Time and Heritage, it feels like a new series finale. Giant ants, James Dean, several returning characters, an invasion from an alternate dimension Earth which is going the way of Mondas. It's definitely one of the overly-complex stories that's a long way from the original series, but action-packed and hugely absorbing, with a real sense of 'how the hell are they going to get out of this?' at several points.

After more research, it definitely seems that The Algebra of Ice belongs somewhere in the early NA era, while I'm still convinced Atom Bomb Blues belongs in late season 25. This tidies up season 27 to a really nice run of six novels that feel like a halfway ground between the structure of the classic series and the new one. Good stuff.

And with that, the Missing Adventures and Past Doctor Adventures just about come to a close. There are a couple of 7th and 8th ones still to come, but as they exist in the continuity of the New Adventures and Eighth Doctor Adventures, they don't fill the same role. Similarly, there are also a couple of oddities - The Infinity Doctors and Scream of the Shalka, which I'll approach after I've finished the main range, as their continuity is difficult to place.

The quality of the books has pretty much reflected the series overall, I'd say. A number of absolutely incredible stories, a few appalling ones, the bulk split between enjoyable and passable. While the bold direction of season 27 impressed me, and I'm sure gives an idea of what is to come in the VNAs, overall I've found the books that more accurately reflect the tone of the originals tend to be more enjoyable. The Third Doctor's era in general was very good in this regard, particularly the UNIT stories. I think he has my highest average rating. I was a touch disappointed that we don't return to UNIT, however - I hoped we'd maybe get a couple more Four & UNIT tales as he makes the very occasional visit to Earth, but we don't get any more real involvement other than a number of Brigadier stories that appear every now and then.

The varying voices over the two series means the contrast between books has been a bit jarring at times. Any Christopher Bulis book immediately feels childish in comparison with those around it (although his Sixth Doctor book, Palace of the Red Sun, is a tremendous romp, almost like he was trying for the most Bulis book ever, to the extent that I had a grin on my face throughout). Gareth Roberts had a good run of interconnected Fourth Doctor books which had their own voice yet tied in brilliantly with the Romana II era. On the whole, stories with newly created enemies tended to fare better than repeat ones (other than an excellent Cyberman story in season 27), and overall the tendency towards fanwank was pretty tedious at times: returns of The Great Intellience weren't appreciated, while The Animus having an attempt at taking over Vortis again was tedious. Craig Hinton's The Quantum Archangel referenced somewhere in the region of 50 past stories, which was both amusing and utterly frustrating. Terrence Dicks came out on top of my 'most disappointing writers' list, constantly mixing up 'adult' storylines with the same kind of bland, educational writing of some of his later Targets. And of course Warmonger is an utter abomination. Managra is one of the most confusing books I've ever read, and although I'm not sure I ever want to read it again, it's something I'd recommend people give a go. As someone who's not as big a fan of the pure historicals as many are, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed the bulk of them in these books. Some brave concepts work, like a look into why The Master is the way he is in The Dark Path; some don't, like a Gerry Anderson crossover in The Indestructible Man.

I didn't notice a dramatic difference between the two ranges. The MAs maybe veer slightly more towards hard SF, fantasy and horror, while the PDAs have a touch more in the way of weird/silly SF concepts and more fanwank. Two of the three stories published in the last ten years were incredible, while one was shit. Going through my Goodreads, I spot the following notable stories:

5 stars:
The Empire of Glass (1st / MA)
Bunker Soldiers (1st / PDA)
Ten Little Aliens (1st / PDA)
The Roundheads (2nd / PDA)
Heart of TARDIS (2nd & 4th / PDA)
The Dark Path (2nd / MA)
The Scales of Injustice (3rd / MA)
Who Killed Kennedy? (3rd / MA)
Harvest of Time (3rd / published 2013)
Rags (3rd / PDA)
Verdigris (3rd / PDA)
Last of the Gaderene (3rd / PDA)
The Drosten's Curse (4th / published 2015)
The Well-Mannered War (4th / MA)*
Festival of Death (4th / PDA)
The Crystal Bucephalus (5th / MA)
Grave Matter (6th / PDA)
The Hollow Men (7th / PDA)
Prime Time (7th / PDA)
Loving the Alien (7th / PDA)**

2 stars:
Venusian Lullaby (1st / MA)
Island of Death (3rd / PDA)
Match of the Day (4th / PDA)
The Shadow of Weng-Chiang (4th / PDA)

1 star:
Byzantium (1st / MA)
Warmonger (5th / MA)
The Quantum Archangel (6th / MA)

*third in a generally good (and loose) trilogy, preceded by The Romance of Crime and The English Way of Death.
** finale of season 27, preceded by Illegal Alien, Matrix, Storm Harvest, Prime Time and Heritage.


And now, finally, it's time to start the Virgin New Adventures, which were the original reason I started this madness in the first place.

[Alberon]

Partly inspired by your mammoth venture of trying to read them all in order I decided to pitch into the NAs as a change from whatever main book I'm reading (Shadow Captain by Alastair Reynolds at the moment (basically sailing ships and pirates in space (better than it sounds))).

But the problem with that is the first Timewyrm book. I'd forgotten how aggressively awful the book is in the 28 years since I last read it, but I will push on.

[purlieu]

(Shadow Captain by Alastair Reynolds at the moment (basically sailing ships and pirates in space (better than it sounds))).

He's on my 'to give a go' list after I gave his Third Doctor story, Harvest of Time, five stars.

But the problem with that is the first Timewyrm book. I'd forgotten how aggressively awful the book is in the 28 years since I last read it, but I will push on.

Oh good, I'm looking forward to this afternoon now.

[Camp Tramp]

He's on my 'to give a go' list after I gave his Third Doctor story, Harvest of Time, five stars.Oh good, I'm looking forward to this afternoon now.

I'd start of with some of his standalones. Chasm City and House of Suns are very good.

[purlieu]

Ta! I picked a couple up in a charity shop not long back, but they're somewhere in my pile of about a hundred unread books so I couldn't tell you which they are. I know quite a few are done as series, so standalones might be a good introduction.

[Bad Ambassador]

Gareth Roberts #cancelled

https://medium.com/@zmangareth/statement-on-bbc-books-and-transgenderism-dd7ad0c9231a

[Small Man Big Horse]

I just saw that. Always thought he was a fairly shit writer, now it turns out he's a fairly shit human being too.

[purlieu]

Didn't I read that he's a Brexiteer and Moffat got sick of him being a dick about it which is why he's not written for the show in ages?

[Phil_A]

He once wrote an article in an old DWM special praising The Dominators for bravely taking a right wing stance in an era of soft lefty liberalism.

I remember at the time it was a bit like, "Oh ha ha, I see...wait what? He's serious?"

[The Giggling Bean]

I'm delighted they've announced The Faceless Ones as the next missing story animation...not because I've any particular fondness for TFO but because they seem to be committed to reproducing these story's in animation now. I've given up on Phil Morris pulling any more rabbits out of his hat. He may well have more but I'm more than happy to accept these animated representations until something else appears. I just wish that it would have been released around Christmas, it would have made a nice gift.

What stories are you looking forward to them animating? Do you think it's a good idea to animate the existing episodes just to have a consistent look? What should they do once they finish the missing episodes?

The idea of animating the existing episodes doesn't bother me, so long as the original eps are there to view. They'll probably be included within the recon.

I'm wondering why they haven't attempted a Hartnell yet. I'd have thought they could test the water with a more visually appealing story like Toymaker. If it didn't sell well then go back to another Troughton monster story. I think that they could really go to town on stories like The Savages and Toymaker as no episodes exist.

I'd hope that once they've finished the missing stories they'd branch out into animating some Big Finish adventures, or work in conjunction with them to produce original animations. Mainly though I'd just love to see Spare Parts animated.

[gatchamandave]

To think that in his "Twenty Years - A Celebration" book Peter Haining labelled Troughton "The Forgotten Doctor"!

But I would like to see more Hartnell as well, he is my favourite after all, but how do you find the budget for, say, Marco Polo, which I've just listened to for the first time in years. It blew me away how much more engrossing it was than, sorry, the Big Finish audio we had been listening to before that - one was The Reaping and the other had Peri returning home to her dysfunctional family. Both were bloody annoying.

I digress. Sorry. Thing is, with the two returned stories getting front page on the newspapers and Matt Smith citing him as an influence, Troughton probably has the bigger awareness of the two, despite David Bradley's best efforts. Do Hartnell's do better than Troughton for dvd sales, I wonder ? That would probably be the metric they use.

[A Hat Like That]

Found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nZf1wZ5YEo

A document about the 6th - 7th changeover.

Loving the alternative Doctors in the auditions. One of whom has the imdb entry "Superman III: Olympic Runner". Which, incidentally, is one of my favourite scenes in that film.

[Alberon]

To think that in his "Twenty Years - A Celebration" book Peter Haining labelled Troughton "The Forgotten Doctor"!

But I would like to see more Hartnell as well, he is my favourite after all, but how do you find the budget for, say, Marco Polo, which I've just listened to for the first time in years. It blew me away how much more engrossing it was than, sorry, the Big Finish audio we had been listening to before that - one was The Reaping and the other had Peri returning home to her dysfunctional family. Both were bloody annoying.

I digress. Sorry. Thing is, with the two returned stories getting front page on the newspapers and Matt Smith citing him as an influence, Troughton probably has the bigger awareness of the two, despite David Bradley's best efforts. Do Hartnell's do better than Troughton for dvd sales, I wonder ? That would probably be the metric they use.

It's all changed since Haining's book. Going by its title it must have been published around 1983. Doctor Who on video hadn't taken off yet (had it even started?) and very little of the early years was repeated. All we had were the novelisations from Target (which at that point weren't complete). When I was a fan growing up in the seventies watching Tom Baker I had a vague awareness of Pertwee, but Hartnell and Troughton existed as just some odd photos occasionally in Doctor Who Weekly (and that didn't start till 1979).

Back then Troughton's Doctor was less well known that Hartnell's. Since VHS and DVDs took off that has largely swung about. Troughton's years are much closer in style to Pertwee, Baker et al than Hartnell's even though the second Doctor was hampered by being the one that suffered the worst with missing episodes. Through most of the original run the past of the show was largely a closed book. It's all changed today.

[Alternative Carpark]

It's all changed since Haining's book. Going by its title it must have been published around 1983.

It was, about the same time as the anniversary that year as well, I think.

Doctor Who on video hadn't taken off yet (had it even started?)

Just about, the first video release of it, Revenge of the Cybermen, had been in the summer of '83.  Although that cost about £40, which in 1983 terms was quite a lot.

[purlieu]

I'm wondering why they haven't attempted a Hartnell yet.

The Reign of Terror was done a few years ago.

I've not picked up any of the recent animations, I think I'm just going to wait for the full season BR boxes to come out now. It'll be quite nice to get to the '60s ones and have a huge heap of new stuff to watch.


Timewyrm: Genesys.

Not the most auspicious way to start the New Adventures, it has to be said, especially coming off the back of some very bold PDAs. The Doctor and Ace more closely resemble Six and Peri in their bickering, the plot - they turn up in ancient Mesopotamia to find the Goddess Ishta has returned, and two groups split up on separate missions - feels more like a Hartnell story than the more interesting stuff that was happening in season 26, and the writing style is little better than a run-of-the-mill Target. Obviously the books will require a little time to reach full confidence, but that was just utterly middling and mediocre.

One thing I found interesting, looking at my stack of NA books, is the varying lengths. All the MAs and PDAs were 280 pages long - give or take a few - but these vary quite a bit: Timewyrm: Revelation is 201, while Lucifer Rising is 346. This is promising, as it immediately makes it seem less like a production line, with book lengths differing depending on what the story requires.

And now onto, depressing, a Terrance Dicks novel, Timewyrm: Exodus.

[Replies From View]

It was, about the same time as the anniversary that year as well, I think.

Just about, the first video release of it, Revenge of the Cybermen, had been in the summer of '83.  Although that cost about £40, which in 1983 terms was quite a lot.

There's a great documentary on the Revenge of the Cybermen DVD about fans trading and buying Doctor Who VHS bootlegs in the 80s.

[Phil_A]

The Reign of Terror was done a few years ago.

I've not picked up any of the recent animations, I think I'm just going to wait for the full season BR boxes to come out now. It'll be quite nice to get to the '60s ones and have a huge heap of new stuff to watch.


Timewyrm: Genesys.

Not the most auspicious way to start the New Adventures, it has to be said, especially coming off the back of some very bold PDAs. The Doctor and Ace more closely resemble Six and Peri in their bickering, the plot - they turn up in ancient Mesopotamia to find the Goddess Ishta has returned, and two groups split up on separate missions - feels more like a Hartnell story than the more interesting stuff that was happening in season 26, and the writing style is little better than a run-of-the-mill Target. Obviously the books will require a little time to reach full confidence, but that was just utterly middling and mediocre.

One thing I found interesting, looking at my stack of NA books, is the varying lengths. All the MAs and PDAs were 280 pages long - give or take a few - but these vary quite a bit: Timewyrm: Revelation is 201, while Lucifer Rising is 346. This is promising, as it immediately makes it seem less like a production line, with book lengths differing depending on what the story requires.

And now onto, depressing, a Terrance Dicks novel, Timewyrm: Exodus.

There's a lot of variation in tone and length (and quality) during these early novels, as it took a while to establish who the intended audience were - children and young adults, or just adults? Plus quite a few of them were pitches for TV stories that had been hastily redrafted into novel form, which is more successful in some cases (Time's Crucible) than others (The Pit).

The tone becomes a lot more consistent later, particularly when Rebecca Levene takes over from Peter Darvill-Evans as the range editor

What I remember most from Peel's writing on that book is a massively uncomfortable "I am wanking as I write this" feeling to it, all those lascivious descriptions of Ace in the nude and the bare breasts of the (underage) women in the temple. One can only assume Sophie Aldred had no idea what the actual content of the story was going to be when she penned her introduction, otherwise she'd probably have gone "Fucking hell, no chance mate."

We can look forward to more creepy Ace-perving to come in Cartmel's book, which I intensely disliked for other reasons I've mentioned on here before.

[Deanjam]

And now onto, depressing, a Terrance Dicks novel, Timewyrm: Exodus.

Not read it for years, but I really liked it at the time.

[purlieu]

What I remember most from Peel's writing on that book is a massively uncomfortable "I am wanking as I write this" feeling to it, all those lascivious descriptions of Ace in the nude and the bare breasts of the (underage) women in the temple.

Yes, it was all a bit unpleasant, especially in contrast to the fairly broadly written, Target-like prose around it.
There were number of spelling and punctuation errors I noticed throughout, too, as well as a sentence which read something like "These annoying little hints of wrongness were beginning to annoy him," which made me want to punch the book.

[gatchamandave]

I agree mostly with you, Alberon, but keep in mind The Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats in '81. Both The Krotons and The Three Doctors had been in that. Perhaps it's because the first Doctor Who that I had a memory of wasThe Invasion but I distinctly thought even as I read it " Who is supposed to have forgotten him, then ? ".

Weird, isn't it, that the Doctor Who that most excited us for its potential is old shows reconstructed...weird, and rather lovely.

[Alberon]

I remember being very excited by the Five Faces repeats. I'd never seen Hartnell or Troughton before that and I only had very dim memory of Pertwee's last series. I always hoped they'd show more, but I didn't know there wasn't much left of the 2nd Doctor. Tomb of the Cybermen wasn't found for another decade.

[Replies From View]

Winter 1981.

[purlieu]

Does this mean Episode Four of The Invasion was lost after 1981, or is it just wrong?

[Alberon]

Must be wrong. The destruction at the BBC had been stopped before the 80s.

[Bad Ambassador]

Does this mean Episode Four of The Invasion was lost after 1981, or is it just wrong?

It's a mistake.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Timewyrm: Exodus is great fun. A real Indiana Jones feel, plus some interesting use of old continuity.

Timewyrm: Revelation...ooh, you're in for a treat. You may know that it was reworked from a fan fiction serial called Total Eclipse which originally featured the 5th Doctor, Tegan and Nyssa, and appeared in a fanzine created by Val Douglas and Jackie Marshall, both of whom are thanked in the acknowledgements, as well as Jackie appearing in a cameo early on. It shows some of the hints of the self-indulgence which taints a lot of Cornell's later novels, but it's taut, well-written, and surprisingly affecting in places.

[Alternative Carpark]

It's a mistake.

The entry for Wheel in Space is mistaken as well, they already had Episode 6 of it in 1981.  Indeed, a clip from it is included in Earthshock, recorded in November that year.

[The Giggling Bean]

I remember back in the early 90s I got a tape trading catalogue from some chap. It might have been through DW mag. Along with compilation tapes and various, as of yet unreleased on VHS, stories he had the Invasion listed. He'd meticulously marked down incomplete stories he has but not the Invasion. I often wondered if he had a complete version or if it was an oversight, which is the most likely.

Then again wasn't there a rumour that the episodes had been found around the time of the VHS release? I seem to recall somebody mentioned that there was a sign on the original box art saying "complete at last". Then someone else lost them again. Actually writing that down makes it seem pretty implausible.

[Replies From View]

Funny to think of the 1981 mindset where the BBC having or not having certain complete stories in their archives wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on whether you might see them.  It was just the sense of injustice that episodes were missing.

On the extra about VHS bootlegging on the Revenge of the Cybermen DVD, they say they'd debate in the early 80s which of these two irreconcilable impossibilities they would most prefer to happen:  the BBC having the entire archive of missing stories returned to them, or personally privately owning all of the stories that the BBC then held.

[Norton Canes]

What stories are you looking forward to them animating?

As I've said before, none. I can't stand the animations. Even though recent ones are technically more accomplished than earlier efforts, they're still basic and clunky and remove any sense of subtlety from the actors' performances. AFAIK all of them are unwatchable.

My favourite way of enjoying missing episodes is by reading transcripts. I know all the regulars' voices well enough and I've usually seen enough stills or telesnaps to pictures the scenes.

I'm wondering why they haven't attempted a Hartnell yet. I'd have thought they could test the water with a more visually appealing story like Toymaker

The Celestial Toymaker would be interesting as rather than going for an accurate recreation of what was seen on screen (i.e. a load of cheap, sparse studio sets), they could really push the boat out and make the Toymaker's realm a visually spectacular work of imagination. Of course, purists would be against this approach.