Author Topic: Old Doctor Who - Part 3  (Read 145902 times)

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2550 on: December 02, 2019, 05:23:03 PM »
Steve Lyons was pretty consistent in producing quite funny and quite meta novels.

Except Space Age


Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2551 on: December 02, 2019, 05:23:53 PM »
I mean, this blurb

Quote
This is the city: a technological paradise built by an advanced race. Its glittering towers reach proudly for the stars, and its spires are looped by elevated roadways.

The people that lived here were enlightened and contented. They travelled in bubble-topped saucer cars, along moving pavements or in anti-gravity tubes. Obedient robots tended to their every whim. Disease, war, famine and pollution had been eradicated. Food machines synthesised all essential nutrients into pill form, and personal rocket ships brought the solar system within reach. The people of the city befriended Venusians and Martians alike.

The city is self-cleansing. Its systems harness solar power and static electricity. Its buildings are constructed from a metal that will never rust or tarnish. It will stand forever as a monument to the achievements of the human race.

This is Earth. The year is 2000 AD. This is your future.

Welcome to the Space Age.

I want, I still want, to read that book.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2552 on: December 02, 2019, 05:35:14 PM »
That was around the time I must've spaffed away an obscene amount of my limited funds on BBC Books, and there were those like the above that really made it feel like a crushing waste of time and money.

It's utterly forgettable rubbish that Lyons must've bunged out in an afternoon.

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2553 on: December 02, 2019, 05:41:49 PM »
Another one to look forward to there, then.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2554 on: December 02, 2019, 06:03:47 PM »
The ETA on the EDAs must be months away

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2555 on: December 02, 2019, 09:03:45 PM »
Yes, 38 NAs plus a couple of PDAs, a Telos Novella and the movie novelisation. So a year or so still, given that I'm going to take breaks every now and then. I'm sure by that point I'll just be happy for the change, having spent this fucking long with a single Doctor!

Norton Canes

  • Watching the Wednesday wheel
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2556 on: December 06, 2019, 10:14:14 AM »
Thirty years today, the classic series ended with part three of Survival.

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2557 on: December 06, 2019, 01:34:21 PM »
Thirty years today, the classic series ended with part three of Survival.

I was a massive Who fan as a kid, from late Tom Baker onwards, but by the time the third part of Survival rolled around I'd had enough and so for the first time in my life deliberately skipped an episode, not realising at the time that it'd be the final one for years and years. I've revised my opinion on McCoy now and quite like him too but at the time I found his Doctor a bit much, but I really should get round to watching it just to find out how the classic series ends.

Norton Canes

  • Watching the Wednesday wheel
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2558 on: December 06, 2019, 02:09:21 PM »
This illustration's appeared on the Doctor Who FB page, I think I've seen the faces shown sequentially as an animated GIF but, not the whole thing:


Ambient Sheep

  • I can't even get my Xmas lights to work any more
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2559 on: December 06, 2019, 02:28:09 PM »
Fuckssake, the mis-ordering near the bottom is really doing my head in.  Why on earth would they DO that?

Nicely drawn otherwise, though.

Norton Canes

  • Watching the Wednesday wheel
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2560 on: December 06, 2019, 03:14:23 PM »
It does mean that all the 'proper' new Doctors get their own corner.

Norton Canes

  • Watching the Wednesday wheel
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2561 on: December 06, 2019, 03:16:07 PM »
I was a massive Who fan as a kid, from late Tom Baker onwards, but by the time the third part of Survival rolled around I'd had enough and so for the first time in my life deliberately skipped an episode, not realising at the time that it'd be the final one for years and years. I've revised my opinion on McCoy now and quite like him too but at the time I found his Doctor a bit much, but I really should get round to watching it just to find out how the classic series ends

The last classic era story to be made, as opposed to transmitted, was of course Ghost Light - which is a much better way to end the series (notwithstanding the nice speech tacked onto the end of Survival)

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2562 on: December 06, 2019, 04:09:12 PM »
I quite like Survival as a final story actually.
Speaking of season 26, the BluRay has now been pushed back to 20th January. Unsurprisingly.

Norton Canes

  • Watching the Wednesday wheel
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2563 on: December 06, 2019, 04:25:35 PM »
Actually yeah I meant to say Ghost Light is the better story. Survival makes for a decent conclusion though.

OK decent ish. Obviously there's Hale and Pace. And the bike crash. And the puppet cat. And McCoy over-enunciating at the end. But apart from that it works.

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2564 on: December 07, 2019, 01:53:30 PM »
Doctor Who at The Roxy No Future by Paul Cornell.


Well, that was bloody great. The season finale to the Alternate History Cycle wraps the plot up nicely in a pacey, exciting, fun and occasionally surreal tale. The mastermind behind the whole thing, it turns out, was the Meddling Monk (genuinely didn't see that one coming), and here he goes back to 1976, invents the CD a few too many years early, talks Ace into being his companion and tries to help the Vardans invade Earth. There are a lot of knowing winks to the reader: Benny repeatedly points out The Vardans have a galactic reputation of being a bit crap, and The Doctor ponders where he'd be now without useful ventilation shafts. Meanwhile, a whole section occurs in the Mediasphere, made up of TV, film and such, in which we briefly meet Margo and Jerry from The Good Life and the home guard platoon of Walmington-on-Sea, as well as fictional versions of our main characters (literally: Benny knowingly points out that her fictional alter-ego gets no part in the plot, but the funniest lines; and also continuing with Professor X, the in-universe version of Doctor Who on TV). Lots of punk-era musical references, with the general attitude of anarchist ideals being largely sympathetic: there are a lot of swipes at mainstream media and even UNIT are at least somewhat swayed to the cause, or at least its overall goals. New Ace is written as an antagonist, and very convincingly, although perhaps unsurprisingly it all turns out to be a cunning plan of hers, and as well as wrapping up the alternate timeline plot, the book seems to draw the curtain on the exceptionally angsty and generally unlikeable direction her character has taken over the past few books. And other than one rogue apostrophe, no spelling and grammar errors.

Bonus CaB reference: a politician called Louis Barfe is assassinated.

So yeah, great stuff. Overall the Alternate History Cycle has been very enjoyable, a far better conceived arc than Timewyrm or Cat's Cradle were, and more underplayed by not interfering with the book titles themselves. I'm going to read a few others books now, but I'll be back in a week or two to continue with some stand-alone adventures.

H-O-W-L

  • Front Toward Enemy
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2565 on: December 07, 2019, 02:17:41 PM »
I've always felt like Survival's ending was a bit too twee for an ending to Doctor Who, even if it was really just like, hibernation/bookification of the series. I know I probably sound like I want Doctor Who to be Warhammer 40,000 with my banging on about the darker elements of the series, but I dunno. With something involving such a constantly pyrrhic struggle between Just and Wrong like Doctor Who I've always imagined any ending scenario, classic or not, would be a bit more grim. Not relentlessly so, but I always imagined there'd be a lot less mystery over the Doctor's fate.

I know Survival was not really intended to be the ending until late in production (or at least that's what I've been told?) and so on, so I'm really nitpicking over a 30 year old serial, but I'm sure you get me. It's an interesting point to consider how you'd want Doctor Who to end. I think The Doctor Falls, as it stands, is probably the best ending I could ever ask for with Doctor Who, but I also think that moment in End of Time, as shit as that whole two-parter was, where the Doctor is just floating in the TARDIS as Vale Decem swirls louder and louder, would make a fitting ending too. Not The Time of the Doctor though, that was shit.

Also, I re-rewatched The Tenth Planet the other day, and it's still a cracking bit of mid-sixties sci-fi. It's something I've always well-regarded the very early Whos for (and what makes me so sad about most of them being fucked up or lost somehow), that they're real comfortable old anthology-series style sci-fi. Even if the Doctor and his companions remain the same, every serial feels like a distinct story unto itself, and it doesn't feel like you're missing much by jumping around a little. Without all the built-up lore and whatnot it's a nice bit of boilerplate to wash away all the overly wanky lorehounding the new show's done. And I really don't think Chinball has even glanced at Classic Who as inspiration for his attempt at doing the same.

Those shots of the Cybercunts stalking around in the snow are still horrific too.

Ambient Sheep

  • I can't even get my Xmas lights to work any more
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2566 on: December 07, 2019, 02:47:09 PM »
I think The Doctor Falls, as it stands, is probably the best ending I could ever ask for with Doctor Who

Just as well then that it did.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2567 on: December 07, 2019, 04:51:06 PM »
Doctor Who at The Roxy No Future by Paul Cornell.


Well, that was bloody great. The season finale to the Alternate History Cycle wraps the plot up nicely in a pacey, exciting, fun and occasionally surreal tale. The mastermind behind the whole thing, it turns out, was the Meddling Monk (genuinely didn't see that one coming), and here he goes back to 1976, invents the CD a few too many years early, talks Ace into being his companion and tries to help the Vardans invade Earth. There are a lot of knowing winks to the reader: Benny repeatedly points out The Vardans have a galactic reputation of being a bit crap, and The Doctor ponders where he'd be now without useful ventilation shafts. Meanwhile, a whole section occurs in the Mediasphere, made up of TV, film and such, in which we briefly meet Margo and Jerry from The Good Life and the home guard platoon of Walmington-on-Sea, as well as fictional versions of our main characters (literally: Benny knowingly points out that her fictional alter-ego gets no part in the plot, but the funniest lines; and also continuing with Professor X, the in-universe version of Doctor Who on TV). Lots of punk-era musical references, with the general attitude of anarchist ideals being largely sympathetic: there are a lot of swipes at mainstream media and even UNIT are at least somewhat swayed to the cause, or at least its overall goals. New Ace is written as an antagonist, and very convincingly, although perhaps unsurprisingly it all turns out to be a cunning plan of hers, and as well as wrapping up the alternate timeline plot, the book seems to draw the curtain on the exceptionally angsty and generally unlikeable direction her character has taken over the past few books. And other than one rogue apostrophe, no spelling and grammar errors.

Bonus CaB reference: a politician called Louis Barfe is assassinated.

So yeah, great stuff. Overall the Alternate History Cycle has been very enjoyable, a far better conceived arc than Timewyrm or Cat's Cradle were, and more underplayed by not interfering with the book titles themselves. I'm going to read a few others books now, but I'll be back in a week or two to continue with some stand-alone adventures.

This book really got a slating from some quarters on release, particularly Craig Hinton in DWM who absolutely hated it (one of his complaints was that it had yet another variation on the cyberspace trope that was getting well worn by this point). Even Cornell now thinks of it as an indulgence too far on his part.

Conversely, I really enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to eventually re-reading it at some point.

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2568 on: December 07, 2019, 04:55:57 PM »
Bloody hell, that got criticised by the guy who went on to write The Quantum Archangel, the most hideously self-indulgent piece of fanwank ever written?

But yeah, I liked this one, it was a lot of fun.

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2569 on: December 07, 2019, 05:04:07 PM »
I might have to track that one down as I'm a big fan of Cornell's, I recently read his London Falling / Shadow Police series and really enjoyed them.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2570 on: December 07, 2019, 09:18:34 PM »
This book really got a slating from some quarters on release, particularly Craig Hinton in DWM who absolutely hated it (one of his complaints was that it had yet another variation on the cyberspace trope that was getting well worn by this point). Even Cornell now thinks of it as an indulgence too far on his part.

Is it this one that has the really terrible "chap with Wings " joke? That one was definitely too much.

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2571 on: December 07, 2019, 09:25:48 PM »
I really liked the McCartney "chap with Wings" joke, but I get why it might rub people up the wrong way. On the whole I find myself forgiving this kind of daftness and a lot of the fanwankery in the books in a way I never, ever could with the TV version.

pigamus

  • Sex, death, mayonnaise.
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2572 on: December 07, 2019, 09:32:54 PM »
I've always felt like Survival's ending was a bit too twee for an ending to Doctor Who

Well, if "twee" means affected - affectedly sentimental, too cutesy by half - I can't really agree. McCoy's speech at the end is supposed to be poetic, and in my humble opinion, it is. I was 11 in 1989 and I'm 41 now, and I love it no more or less than I did at the time. In my opinion it's judged just right.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2573 on: December 08, 2019, 11:54:05 AM »
No Future is a bit of a gem, it is fun but there's enough going on to keep the attention and I think it handles UNIT pretty much perfectly.

Out of interest, where does Downtime fit into your timeline? Has that one been reviewed already?

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2574 on: December 08, 2019, 12:48:07 PM »
Mm, I did that way back around Colin or Sylvester I think. If I recall it needed to be read before another MA/PDA to make sense of Victoria's character development.

TwinPeaks

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Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2575 on: December 08, 2019, 02:53:16 PM »
Just as well then that it did.

"You know what old man? I'm never gonna believe you're really dead. Because one day people are gonna need you too much. Until then... It's a big universe. I hope I see you again. Where there's tears there's hope."
Beautiful. Hope it comes back one day.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2576 on: December 09, 2019, 01:43:47 PM »
Really enjoying the New Adventures reviews, nice to hear someone else enjoyed Iceberg and No Future both of which I remember everyone hating at the time. Everybody still hates Transit though which I quite enjoyed, or felt rewarded for slogging it out till the end anyway. I don't know if the plan is to read every NA in order but I would point out that when the books first came out at least twice you had to break off from the the NA's to read a MA which served as a prelude, ie Goth Opera then Blood Harvest and Lords of the Storm then Shakedown.

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2577 on: December 09, 2019, 05:11:19 PM »
Yeah, I read the MAs (and PDAs) between their associated Targets, but I'll definitely give myself an online refresher of Lords of the Storm before Shakedown. If I remember correctly, Goth Opera is actually a sequel to Blood Harvest though... or I may have that wrong?

Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2578 on: December 09, 2019, 05:38:52 PM »
Yeah, I read the MAs (and PDAs) between their associated Targets, but I'll definitely give myself an online refresher of Lords of the Storm before Shakedown. If I remember correctly, Goth Opera is actually a sequel to Blood Harvest though... or I may have that wrong?

I think that's right. Goth Opera launched the Missing Adventures published alongside Blood Harvest. Making it a sequel was presumably to act as an extra draw to the existing range's readers.

Re: Old Doctor Who - Part 3
« Reply #2579 on: December 09, 2019, 06:53:46 PM »
Yeah, I read the MAs (and PDAs) between their associated Targets, but I'll definitely give myself an online refresher of Lords of the Storm before Shakedown. If I remember correctly, Goth Opera is actually a sequel to Blood Harvest though... or I may have that wrong?

iirc, they're an ontological loop.