Old Doctor Who - Part 3

[weekender]

I made myself popular during the work virtual quiz today.

How many actors have played The Doctor in the TV series Doctor Who?

"Sorry to interrupt, but I have a number of questions on this.

Question 1 - are you including the Valeyard as an incarnation of the Doctor?"

I went on to cover whether Richard Hurndall, David Bradley and Jo Martin should be counted, by which point the quizmaster just said "Look, I'll give you the point if you just stop talking".

[Norton Canes]

So who do we reckon had the most obscure portrayal of the Doctor in the TV series? I'm going for Steve Lucas, who doubled for the Fourth Doctor's feet in the shot in Destiny Of The Daleks where The Doctor and Romana experience a Skaro-quake. 

[samadriel]

I was going to suggest one of the stuntmen, but I think you've beaten me with the foot double.

[Malcy]

I made myself popular during the work virtual quiz today.

"Sorry to interrupt, but I have a number of questions on this.

Question 1 - are you including the Valeyard as an incarnation of the Doctor?"

I went on to cover whether Richard Hurndall, David Bradley and Jo Martin should be counted, by which point the quizmaster just said "Look, I'll give you the point if you just stop talking".

I've done this in many a quiz but i add in all the Curse Of Fatal Death Doctors, Peter Cushing, David Warner, Arabella Weir etc as well when the question is less specific. Has never got me any bonus points, just ridicule!

[weekender]

Edmund Warwick doubled for Hartnell as Robot Dr Who (genuinely how he is credited) during The Chase, although Hartnell did provide the voice of the Dalek creation.

[weekender]

I've done this in many a quiz but i add in all the Curse Of Fatal Death Doctors, Peter Cushing, David Warner, Arabella Weir etc as well when the question is less specific. Has never got me any bonus points, just ridicule!

Someone on GB once tried to argue that anyone who watched The Feast of Steven when it was broadcast technically became canon, because of William Hartnell's "Merry Christmas to all of you at home!" line.

[Replies From View]

Edmund Warwick doubled for Hartnell as Robot Dr Who (genuinely how he is credited) during The Chase, although Hartnell did provide the voice of the Dalek creation.

Weirdly I think he didn't just play the robot version - he played the real first Doctor as well in some shots.  And he mouthed his lines while Hartnell said them.

If I recall they were all scenes where one of them had their back to the camera, so they could have just used him consistently as the back of both the Doctor and the robot, and let Hartnell always face the camera.

[weekender]

So we're up to about 30 then, and that's before I introduce the Valeyard argument.

Love it.

[daf]

Have we had the Morbius Doctors? :

Christopher Barry (director)  /  Robert Banks Stewart (writer)
Christopher Baker (production assistant)  /  Philip Hinchcliffe (producer),
Douglas Camfield (director)  /  Graeme Harper (production assistant),
Robert Holmes (script editor)   /  George Gallaccio (production unit manager).

[Alberon]

Fuck Chibnall! They're not the Doctor!

[mjwilson]

Fuck Chibnall! They're not the Doctor!

To be fair it wasn't Chibnall's idea.

I guess we could count Toby Jones as playing the Doctor too.

[Replies From View]

I think you could argue that playing part of the Doctor's psyche doesn't really count as playing the Doctor.  Otherwise why not also include part of the Doctor's body, like the hand that was kept in a jar.

[Replies From View]

Going back to Robot Dr Who for a moment, I always feel a bit woozy looking at him.  As if my own brain is misremembering William Hartnell in some kind of traumatic way.






He also reminds me slightly of the David Ross version of Kryten.

[daf]

I really don't know what the director was playing at - using the double for CLOSE UPS!!! - totally inept!

I bet it was Richard Martin - it's just got to be!

[purlieu]

Given that they tried to perform it as close to 'live' as possible, it's maybe not that surprising, rather than having Hartnell going back and forth throughout the scene.

[daf]

Ah yes, that's probably it - I hadn't thought of that!

[Alberon]

To be fair it wasn't Chibnall's idea.

Yeah, true.

Fuck him anyway, though.

[Replies From View]

Given that they tried to perform it as close to 'live' as possible, it's maybe not that surprising, rather than having Hartnell going back and forth throughout the scene.

So instead of that, they had Edmund Warwick mouthing his lines while Hartnell spoke them off-camera.  Much easier.


Surely it's inarguably inept that Warwick doubled for the real Doctor in some scenes.  By all means cast him as a barely-passable fake Robot Dr Who, but to use him for close-ups of the real Doctor, mouthed by Hartnell who was only himself inches behind the camera, was madness.

It just shows how different this kind of television was in those days, I suppose.  Nobody had any concept that these stories would be forensically examined by anyone; they were created to be shown once on telly, fleetingly, and repeated once at a push.

[A Hat Like That]

I made myself popular during the work virtual quiz today.

"Sorry to interrupt, but I have a number of questions on this.

Question 1 - are you including the Valeyard as an incarnation of the Doctor?"

I went on to cover whether Richard Hurndall, David Bradley and Jo Martin should be counted, by which point the quizmaster just said "Look, I'll give you the point if you just stop talking".

About 2 years ago there was a Dr Who movie/quiz night near me.

The guy doing the quiz does many of the smart phone based quizzes around here. However, he was evidently not much of a dr who fan.

Almost every question asked had a hand raised from the crowd with a query or clarification.

It was wonderful. Wonderful. 

[mjwilson]

Doctors Assemble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26UFq8RGVOs

[mjwilson]

Many of the voices there perfectly recognisable as who they're supposed to be.

Nice

Spoiler alert

No More

[close]

joke too.

[Malcy]

Doctors Assemble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26UFq8RGVOs

1, 8 12 & 13 were fucking pish. Cringed.

Edit. Wasn't sure if 1 was David Bradley or not until near the end. Was too muffled. Sounded better as it went on. Debra Stephenson was just a generic northerner.

[daf]

Trailer  |  Message from David Bradley



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Tonight's tweeters :
MARK GATISS : @MarkGatiss
SACHA DHAWAN : @sacha_dhawan
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Combined link : #London1963

[daf]

Part 1

SACHA DHAWAN : Ready for lift off... so excited.



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MARK GATISS : 'AAISAT' was a labour of love in the truest sense. Although I was a Pertwee child, the magic of 'Doctor Who's earliest days, as recounted in these sacred texts, had always gripped me. (I know there was an earlier Making Of but this was the one I had! #London1963

 

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MARK GATISS : Barnes Common, of course! This scene originally opened with a collision in the fog, just like in David Whitaker's 'Dr Who and the Daleks'. The location was actually Wimbledon Common and the very spot where the TARDIS was erected for the end of 'The Massacre'.
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SACHA DHAWAN : Here we go.... An Adventure in Space & Time. Oh the score...its pretty sensational. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did making it.
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MARK GATISS : I was determined to get an original Cyberman in and the brilliant Paul McNamara did wonders with almost as little the original team. The cigarette smoking was inspired by that photo of the 'Revenge' Cyberman having a sly one!
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MARK GATISS : As you can imagine, it was quite something to have William Russell in the film. He remembered the BBC security guard his character was based on! Hugely supportive and bright as a button, here he is with Ian Mk2, the lovely Jamie Glover who comes from Who royalty...

 

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MARK GATISS : Sydney was such a colourful character he was very hard to cast. We discussed John Lithgow and even James Gandolfini. Then I saw Brian Cox on The One Show and - pop! pop! pop! Brian even changed his holiday plans so he could do it. He had very fond memories of TVC too.
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MARK GATISS : Ah, Verity! I was lucky enough to know her a little. A force of nature and a wonderfully loyal friend to Who. It was vision mixer Clive Doig who gave me that lovely detail about her 'red wine kiss'. It became clear that Verity, Waris, Sydney and Bill had to become the main characters in the story. There was a whole subplot with Terry Nation and Ray Cusick and evening a cameo from Tony Hancock! Jessica Raine later became something of an expert at delivering newborns...
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SACHA DHAWAN : Jessica Raine playing the amazing Verity Lambert....would Doctor Who ever existed without such a brilliant producer...??
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MARK GATISS : "Brains in a glass jar". Imagine!
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MARK GATISS : That scene dock was full of stuff from Who! Including the gates from Sweetville!
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MARK GATISS : Jessica Carney was a big help with details. She was known as Judi and 'Judi-poodi' by her grandparents. We were so blessed to get the great Lesley Manville to play Heather Hartnell. We're old friends and she brings a wonderful fragility to Bill's long-suffering wife.

 

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MARK GATISS : This was the first image I tweeted from the show and everyone went nuts! All it shows is David's eye but he looks so like Bill it's uncanny. I had to hastily write some dialogue to burble on the TV under the conversation. "I only arsked!"

‪‬

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SACHA DHAWAN : I remember prepping for the role sitting with Waris as he showed me the first original Doctor Who scripts. Notes were scribbled, dialogue re-writes, and initial camera shots....I couldn't stop smiling.
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MARK GATISS : Trying to do justice to all the people involved at the birth of Who was incredibly hard. David Whitaker, 'Bunny Webber', even the "villainous" Joanna Spicer appeared in early drafts. Eventually Mervyn Pinfield came to exemplify many of them.
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MARK GATISS : Delightful to have Jeff Rawle as Mervyn. Loved his Billy Liar when I was a kid and of course he is forever Plantagenet! You know what they say? "TV Centre buries its own dead..." Ending on his invention of the autocue is inspired by similar scene in 'The Dambusters'.

 

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MARK GATISS : It was ‪@edgarwright ‬who first suggested ‪‪@bradders_david‬‬ as Bill Hartnell and he couldn't have been more right. David is such a wonderful, funny man with an amazing hinterland - from old fashioned variety to the RSC. A huge admirer of Bill and a joy to work with.
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SACHA DHAWAN : This is was one of the last productions to shoot at BBC Television centre...before it was renovated. So much history, so many memories...
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MARK GATISS : Enter @sacha_dhawan, one of the great joys of this job. Whatever happened to him?! Here he is at the very emotional read-through, along with Waris' original file for his notes and plans for Serial A.

 

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SACHA DHAWAN : walking those corridors in that costume is a memory I will never forget. The start of a great friendship with @MarkGatiss
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SACHA DHAWAN : 'It will never work'....
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SACHA DHAWAN : 'We are all strangers in a strange land'. This was the first scene I filmed. I was soooo nervous.
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MARK GATISS : "So many people have been in at the birth of the thing, we'd be here all day!" It's the writer's job to conflate people, events, time - as painful as that can be. As a Who fan it was doubly difficult to leave out all those important personalities.
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MARK GATISS : Love this montage.
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SACHA DHAWAN : No joke, it genuinely felt we were both being interviewed by William Hartnell...
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MARK GATISS : Jessica got quite good at delivering new borns!
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MARK GATISS : The team! Jamie, Gemma and Claudia (her first job. Jessica Carney her agent!) absolutely spotless as Russ, Jacqueline and Carole-Ann. I liked the device of repeating these press calls to show Bill's increasing disenchantment.



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MARK GATISS : Sampa. [smiley face emoji]
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SACHA DHAWAN : William Hartnell 'stern and scary...but with a twinkle'. We got him!!!! [two crying with laughter emojis]
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MARK GATISS : Of course this rehearsal would really have been in a church hall but we couldn't afford it!
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MARK GATISS : Inside the Spaceship!
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SACHA DHAWAN : Did you know the director Ridley Scott was originally assigned to design the second Doctor Who?
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MARK GATISS : Message from our brilliant director:"Pop Pop POP!" A big hello from Terry McDonough, to all AAISAT Fans, as much fun watching as it was making x" Also huge thanks to @MattStrevens1, Caro Skinner, ‪@richardcookson ‬& @StevenWMoffat‬‬ for making the whole thing possible.
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SACHA DHAWAN : I'll leave Verity to handle William Hartnell...thanks. Tea?
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MARK GATISS : Big shout out to Dave Arrowsmith and his team for their terrific work. Everyone who stepped onto that TARDIS set gasped. Peter Brachacki would have been amazed. Maybe even happy! And those junkyard gates...we all had shivers.




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SACHA DHAWAN : Sydney always had a way with words: 'Pop, pop, pop!'.
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MARK GATISS : Honoured to have the great Waris Hussein with us for the first days of shooting. It was evidently a very emotional experience seeing both himself and dear friends recreated. We wouldn't be doing this without his brilliant work. The original, you might say. #London1963

‪‬ 

[daf]

Part 2

MARK GATISS : Things didn't go QUITE this badly on the pilot! I think the sprinklers going off happened in 'The Aztecs'. #London1963
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MARK GATISS : We couldn't quite believe what we were seeing when we first saw the action through the old camera lens. Like true time travel. And then to discover that, incredibly, Dicky Howett was behind the tech! I remember shouting 'Lock the doors! Let's remake Marco Polo!'



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MARK GATISS : 'Nuts!'
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MARK GATISS : David and Jessica lovely in this scene.
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SACHA DHAWAN : Waris was in his 20s when he first directed ‪#DoctorWho‬, how amazing is that?! Young, Indian, gay; Waris had to face so many hurdles at the time, emotionally and politically. I never fully appreciated what was happening behind the scenes....
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MARK GATISS : Brave heart! The radiation meter was meant to flash! Always bothered me.
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MARK GATISS : Contrasting the assembling of the assassination rifle with the description of the Daleks was one of the first ideas I had for AAISAT. I think it's a very effective and melancholy moment. Sean Barrett's announcement, with the Dad gripping his son always gets me.
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MARK GATISS : Mark Eden - Marco Polo himself! - as Donald Baverstock. Right into the edit this remained as scripted, Verity's perceived overspend on the TARDIS set. Then we realised it just wasn't exciting enough. The stakes needed to be higher. "Kill Doctor Who!"
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SACHA DHAWAN : Waris was initially unsure about how directing television science fiction would impact his career...he was worth more than that....but it would change his career and life forever
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MARK GATISS : Love Jessica's fire in this scene. I wouldn't mess with Verity!
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SACHA DHAWAN : 'Kill it Sydney, kill Doctor Who!' It could have all ended here....
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MARK GATISS : Look at them! Beautiful Daleks! ‪@BriggsNicholas‬ alert!
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SACHA DHAWAN : Thank you Verity for fighting for that repeat!
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MARK GATISS : Carole Ann! "Your progranme's on!"
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SACHA DHAWAN : 'I'm directing this piece about Cavemen in Skins, where have I landed up in my life! Waris.
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MARK GATISS : TV Centre, gawd bless it. We were pretty much the last drama shot there in its old form.
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SACHA DHAWAN : Sharing this moment with Jessica Raine at the top of BBC Television centre, was pure joy! What you're seeing is genuine excitement....!!!
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MARK GATISS : In true Who style, we reused the junkyard stairs for the Marco Polo set!
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MARK GATISS : "I saw you interfering with some dials only last night. So I've decided to show you all the things you mustn't touch under any circumstances!" Dr Who and the Forbidden Subjects by David Whitaker. Found in a drawer by Clive Doig!

 

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MARK GATISS : We couldn't afford to do the artwork for the annual so I commissioned it for myself! First rule of showbiz - "Never put your own money into the show!" Second rule of showbiz - NEVER put your own money into the show!"

 

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SACHA DHAWAN : sitting with Jessica Raine at our first table read, the start of an adventure, and the first time we were stepping into the Whoniverse just like Waris and Verity.
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MARK GATISS : Of course, some of us had been Daleks on Westminster Bridge before...
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MARK GATISS : "They can rewrite this stuff in a shot". There speaks the writer!
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MARK GATISS : "How far, Doctor? How long have you lived?!"



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MARK GATISS : It was vital that the story worked as a human drama, so that everyone could relate to it. We're all replaceable of course...
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MARK GATISS : A lot of old friends here to say goodbye... Originally Verity talked about moving on to produce 'Adam Adamant' but then realised that talking about a man out of time who no longer fitted with the modern world wasn't wise. "Until we meet again" - irresistible
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MARK GATISS : Contrasting the 'tweed and fag-smoke' 1963 with the glory of Ancient China and beyond took the combined talents of the amazing Suzanne Cave and (BAFTA-winning!) Vickie Lang. Beautiful work - though we could never quite match Peter Purves' 'Toymaker' jumper!



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MARK GATISS : Voice cameo by some chancer here.
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SACHA DHAWAN : A few snapshots of history... [two red hearts]



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MARK GATISS : This little speech from The Massacre fitted the mood perfectly. "A lot of people dancing about in my eyeline". For those who know..
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MARK GATISS : I was thrilled at the prospect of recreating bits of missing episodes. 'The Myth Makers', 'Masterplan' and even 'The Masters of Luxor' were in early drafts but budget defeated us. I was most sad that we lost the chance to see Jean Marsh as Sara Kingdom again!
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MARK GATISS : "You can't change history, not one line!" From 'The Aztecs' of course and a good way of saying that all that follows is mostly true... I'd wanted to write this project for years. Here's some of the earliest version of the synopsis from 2002.



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MARK GATISS : Early drafts involved Bill's agent (and son-in-law) Terry Carney and featured a lot of pubs! Draft 1 used the framing device of grown up granddaughter Judi (Jessica) sorting through things at the cottage. Draft 2 used the amazing Points West interview.
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MARK GATISS : "Fortune, good night. Smile once more. Turn thy wheel."

 

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SACHA DHAWAN : I never thought in a millions years the impact @bbcdoctorwho would have on my life. I can't thank the Whoniverse enough for allowing me to be a part of its History. May it continue to inspire the generations to come. Thank you @MarkGatiss and @MattStrevens1
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MARK GATISS : "I don't want to go" - irresistible again.
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MARK GATISS : Edmund Butt's lovely score was inspired by Khachaturian's 'Masquerade' waltz. I suggested it as having the feel of 'the whirligig of Time'. Romantic, bright but with a slightly off-kilter, out of control feel - like the TARDIS.
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MARK GATISS : Here we go... When I had this idea, I cried.
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MARK GATISS : Right up till the last moment we were hoping Matt could actually shoot his cameo onset but scheduling was impossible. So those are my hands! And diibg what Jon P did in 'Plabet of the Daleks'.

‪‬

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MARK GATISS : And we had to end with the original, of course. Thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone who made this come true. I'm so proud of it. "A Doctor? Does he make people better?" Yes. [red heart] #London1963

[Malcy]

Thanks Daf, looking forward to reading this one the most.

[daf]

Cheers!

Sorry about some the tiny pictures, (that's how they were posted) - Here's what I can make out from the fuzzy text of the 2002 synopsis :

"AN ADVENTURE IN SPACE AND TIME"

October 8th 1966. It's Bill's last day at work. It's always tough to leave a job you love. And Bill's job isn't ordinary. Because Bill is Doctor Who ...

We're in a big white BBC studio. In the centre sits the TARDIS, As we move closer, the glass column wheezes up and down and we travel back to 1962 ...

The new children's TV serial 'Doctor Who' is in trouble. It's creator hates the pilot, the BBC top-brass hate the concept, and its young female produce confronts sexist opposition and the Old School Tie at every turn. It's 22-year -old Asian director, meanwhile has to contend with entrenched British bigotry, not least from his leading man - 55-year-old William 'Bill' Hartnell. After a lifetime in the business, he's become typecast as hard-nosed villains or bullying sergeant-majors but the part of the Doctor transforms his life. Few would guess that the well-spoken veteran is actually an illegitimate Cockney who spent his youth running wild on the streets of London. Or that Bill is already suffering from the illness that will, as the years pass, make him ever more similar to the crotchety, forgetful character he plays on TV ...

[The Roofdog]

Anyone know if there's been any word about the next Blu-Ray set? What is it and when?

[daf]

I'd put my money on a Davison set - probably season 20.

Wild guess : season 11 or 2 after that.

[samadriel]

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