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Michael Jackson

Started by popcorn, January 18, 2017, 03:13:54 PM

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popcorn

A NERDY THING ABOUT SMOOTH CRIMINAL

As a hobbyist songwriter, it has long bugged me how Smooth Criminal cuts to its chorus too soon.

The song has three basic progressions, A, B and C. The A section is the main bit used in the intro, verses and instrumental solo. The B section is the pre-chorus ("Annie are you OK?") and is used again after each chorus, ending with "You've been hit by a smooth criminal". The C section is the chorus proper ("Annie are you OK?! Won't you tell us that you're OK?"). So the sequence goes A, B, C, B, which repeats.

Now, I reckon if you cut the first chorus, it improves the song. That way, the first B-section functions as a satisfying "chorus" the first time you hear it. Then we go back to A (the verse), which, luckily for our purposes, employs an old, smart pop trick of being half as long as the first verse - we've heard it already so we don't need to hear the whole thing again. So we get back to B quickly... after which we introduce the money shot, C, the chorus proper. This would mean the sequence goes A, B, A, B, A, B, C. I think holding back makes it more satisfying.

To prove this to myself I made a very rough edit years ago. Listen and be convinced. What a shame, it could have been a hit.

mrpupkin

An interesting idea, I'm not going for it personally but maybe I'm just too wedded to the existing version. I notice you've also edited the post middle-8 section to remove his high pitched "I don't know" lines and the following ad-libs (something like "daggonit baby" etc). Ditto the instrumental fadeout. These are serious violations and will not stand.

popcorn

Quote from: mrpupkin on January 19, 2017, 04:36:46 PM
An interesting idea, I'm not going for it personally but maybe I'm just too wedded to the existing version. I notice you've also edited the post middle-8 section to remove his high pitched "I don't know" lines and the following ad-libs (something like "daggonit baby" etc). Ditto the instrumental fadeout. These are serious violations and will not stand.

I did it years ago and can't remember why I removed the middle bit. I'll have to compare it to the real thing and have a think; perhaps I was drunk.

But while my edit on the ending is way too abrupt, the fade-out is definitely shite - why did all 80s songs end in a fade-out? Write a proper ending, you bastards. Leave us with a sense of impact, rather than a fading dream.

daf

Man in the Mirror could do with a fade - the last minute is a non-stop 'Shamone/Woo/Yelp' fest.

popcorn

Quote from: daf on January 19, 2017, 05:28:39 PM
Man in the Mirror could do with a fade - the last minute is a non-stop 'Shamone/Woo/Yelp' fest.

Just end it properly, early.

Depressed Beyond Tables

Quote from: popcorn on January 18, 2017, 04:57:37 PM
Oh yeah, I'm sure everyone knows by now, but Michael Jackson and his team wrote a lot of the music for Sonic 3, but it was all hushed up for uncertain reasons. Interesting story, explained here by nerds in the fashion nerds like to explain things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uko0fCp86c

Funny you should mention that. I just remembered the other day that Phil Collins wrote the theme tune to the Enduro Racer arcade game.

popcorn

Quote from: Depressed Beyond Tables on January 19, 2017, 05:45:05 PM
Funny you should mention that. I just remembered the other day that Phil Collins wrote the theme tune to the Enduro Racer arcade game.

Proof

Quote from: popcorn on January 19, 2017, 04:59:27 PM
why did all 80s songs end in a fade-out? Write a proper ending, you bastards. Leave us with a sense of impact, rather than a fading dream.

Going Underground by the Jam didn't. Nor did Turning Japanese by the Vapors. Just remembered that off the top of my head-or rather the areas inside my head that relate to storing and recalling memory.

CaledonianGonzo

Off The Wall was one of my 'classic albums that you've never heard', until last year Amazon were selling the vinyl for £8 and so I figured it was time to plug the gap.

It's a ruddy belter - though to be fair over half of it was released as singles so it's not like it was all new to me.

popcorn

I'm afraid every time I listen to Off the Wall I get bored. This is the same as every MJ album, but I honestly would take Dangerous or History over it. I'm just not so keen on the motown disco business I suppose.

hewantstolurkatad

How shit is invincible? No one ever seems to mention it, do they just forget it exists?

Quote from: popcorn on January 20, 2017, 11:55:33 AM
I'm afraid every time I listen to Off the Wall I get bored.
Same here, the glossy late 70's Disco production just turns the whole album into a sludge of pap for me. And the electric piano on 'She's Out of My Life' is feels so trendy and overwrought that it's impossible to be emotionally affected in any way by it.

daf

Quote from: hewantstolurkatad on January 20, 2017, 12:17:52 PM
How shit is invincible? No one ever seems to mention it, do they just forget it exists?

Not a total stinker - I love this track :
Don't Walk Away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdsb6zByWfY

mrpupkin

Quote from: popcorn on January 20, 2017, 11:55:33 AM
I'm afraid every time I listen to Off the Wall I get bored. This is the same as every MJ album, but I honestly would take Dangerous or History over it. I'm just not so keen on the motown disco business I suppose.

Off the Wall is great until you get to the horrendous It's The Falling In Love, after which it finishes with Burn This Disco Out which is too much like a retread of better tracks from side A. Basically turn it off after I Can't Help It and you have a great (if short) album.

mrpupkin

#44
Quote from: hewantstolurkatad on January 20, 2017, 12:17:52 PM
How shit is invincible? No one ever seems to mention it, do they just forget it exists?

It was underpromoted due to animosity between Jackson and Sony at the time over ownership of his back catalogue. It's criminal that none of the first three tracks were released as singles, they've all got Comeback Single written all over them. Instead the lacklustre You Rock My World was put out, accompanied by a lacklustre remake of the Smooth Criminal video. I think they ended up cancelling subsequent singles and promotion due to the dispute (cue Jackson turning up at Sony HQ in London in an open top bus holding up SONY IS PHONEY signs). As an album it's overlong and has some right old shit on it but also enough decent tracks that it deserves a better reputation than it has. Musically it was a conscious attempt to steer away from the paranoia and anger that characterised History and as such is probably more palatable to the casual listener.

daf

Edit : (oops - wrong thread)

Twed

Quote from: Depressed Beyond Tables on January 19, 2017, 05:45:05 PM
Funny you should mention that. I just remembered the other day that Phil Collins wrote the theme tune to the Enduro Racer arcade game.
Phil Follins

hedgehog90

I've never been a big MJ fan, but I recently chanced across Spike Lee's Off the Wall documentary on BBC4 and came round a little.
The documentary was pretty shite from what I remember, but it was peppered with amazing clips from the 1981 Triumph Tour with The Jacksons.

Here's a brief bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMKxDgTk1M

The performance is incredible, god-like really, and this was before Thriller!
I'd love to see the rest of it, but from what I can gather the clips were edited for the documentary with audio from the triumph tour album, might be wrong about that though.
I started a thread about this several months ago but got no replies! You buggers.
Anyway, I'd love to know more about it.
Tah.

Nowhere Man

Christ, CGI Jackson even just a few years later has already aged terribly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDRTghGZ7XU

Looks like he's from a PS4 game or something

popcorn

Quote from: Nowhere Man on January 20, 2017, 09:49:37 PM
Christ, CGI Jackson even just a few years later has already aged terribly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDRTghGZ7XU

Looks like he's from a PS4 game or something

Yes, that's terrible.

Quote from: hedgehog90 on January 20, 2017, 08:45:27 PM
Here's a brief bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMKxDgTk1M

The performance is incredible, god-like really, and this was before Thriller!

Yes, that's amazing.

Christ, it was a lot cooler when he was carrying a microphone round on stage, wasn't it, rather than those horrid headset mics.

popcorn

This was the first cover proposed for Bad, which MJ rejected. I think that's a shame because it's a beautiful image, achieved by photographing him through a veil (over the camera lens, not on Michael).



I guess it wouldn't have suited the album. Might have fit Dangerous though.

popcorn

Look at this moment from the Way You Make Me Feel video. Imagine if Michael Jackson stopped you in the street and gave you a full-velocity acapella "HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!" right in your face. You'd be killed instantly.

I like the bit in the Black or White video where he punches a car to death

mrpupkin

Quote from: hedgehog90 on January 20, 2017, 08:45:27 PM
I've never been a big MJ fan, but I recently chanced across Spike Lee's Off the Wall documentary on BBC4 and came round a little.
The documentary was pretty shite from what I remember, but it was peppered with amazing clips from the 1981 Triumph Tour with The Jacksons.

Here's a brief bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMKxDgTk1M

The performance is incredible, god-like really, and this was before Thriller!
I'd love to see the rest of it, but from what I can gather the clips were edited for the documentary with audio from the triumph tour album, might be wrong about that though.
I started a thread about this several months ago but got no replies! You buggers.
Anyway, I'd love to know more about it.
Tah.

Yeah it's strange that there's no decent footage of the Triumph tour except those excellent bits from the documentary. There must be more where that came from and money to be made from a proper release so I imagine we'll get one eventually. There are a few good videos from other tours on Youtube but you don't get the full Off The Wall experience unfortunately.

Victory tour in Toronto 1984 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJN_1uxT8JE) is a good watch despite them all hating each other by this point because the tour's been a disaster and Michael's on absolute ego overdrive in the midst of Thrillermania. I like that the show opens with some big sort of muppet characters acting out the sword in the stone story for no discernible reason. The wiki page on the Victory tour is a good read, full of acrimony and financial folly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Tour_(The_Jacksons_tour)).

Dr Syntax Head

Quote from: hedgehog90 on January 20, 2017, 08:45:27 PM


Here's a brief bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMKxDgTk1M

The performance is incredible, god-like really, and this was before Thriller!
I'd love to see the rest of it, but from what I can gather the clips were edited for the documentary with audio from the triumph tour album, might be wrong about that though.
I started a thread about this several months ago but got no replies! You buggers.
Anyway, I'd love to know more about it.
Tah.

James Brown levels of excellence. What a complete waste.

Quote from: A Car With No Doors on January 21, 2017, 08:46:08 PM
I like the bit in the Black or White video where he punches a car to death

An homage to Street Fighter 2. You probably wouldn't get someone referencing that in a music vid these days.

Small Man Big Horse

Now Paris Jackson thinks her dad was murdered: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38737565

QuoteParis Jackson: 'My father was murdered'

Paris was 11 years old when her father died of a heart attack brought on by an overdose of painkillers. In her first in-depth interview, Paris told Rolling Stone she was convinced Jackson's 2009 death was "a setup". The singer died from an overdose of the powerful anaesthetic propofol. His doctor Conrad Murray was later found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. But Paris believes there is more to the story. "He would drop hints about people being out to get him," she said. "And at some point he was like, 'They're gonna kill me one day.'"

Asked by interviewer Brian Hiatt if she thought her father was murdered, the 18-year-old replied: "Absolutely. Because it's obvious. All arrows point to that. It sounds like a total conspiracy theory... but all real fans and everybody in the family knows it. It was a setup." She went on to say "a lot of people" wanted her father dead, and that she was playing a "chess game" to bring them to justice. The teenager did not name specific people, and did not implicate Conrad Murray in her accusations.

In her Rolling Stone interview, Paris spoke glowingly of Jackson's parenting techniques - describing him as a "kick ass cook" who "cussed like a sailor" - and dismissed speculation that he was not her biological father. "He is my father," she said. "He will always be my father. He never wasn't, and he never will not be. People that knew him really well say they see him in me, that it's almost scary. "I consider myself black," she continued, adding that her father would "look me in the eyes and he'd point his finger at me and he'd be like, 'You're black. Be proud of your roots.'" She told Rolling Stone she still wore an African bracelet her nanny had retrieved from his body that day. "It still smells like him," she said.

DrGreggles

"Worst doctor ever. Well, joint worst with Shipman and Fox."

Peacock & Gamble Podcast

Small Man Big Horse

Via the AV Club's comments section I've just discovered this site - http://www.mjfacts.com/michael-jacksons-full-porn-collection-analyzed/ - which is a full analysis of all of the pornography that Jackson owned. No idea if it's true or not, but it made for vaguely interesting reading.

purlieu

Off the Wall is probably a bit too steeped in funk and disco for my taste, although it's hard to deny its quality. But Thriller and Bad I've always enjoyed. Just truly tremendous pop music, a small handful of clunkers, but not enough to take away from how brilliant the high points are. And his skill in composition (as documented up-thread) and performance (music and dance) was astonishing.
I've never heard Dangerous other than a couple of the singles, but I've never been too tempted to check it out. HIStory was a mixed bag, although 'Stranger in Moscow' is my favourite song of his, and overblown and tasteless as it is in places, 'Earth Song' still took environmental awareness to the top of the charts, which I think is wonderful.
Blood On the Dancefloor's original stuff and Invincible were twaddle really.

But yes, for a while at least, he was at the peak of pop music.