Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[St_Eddie]

STAR BORES

EPISODE LXX

A NEW PAGE

It doesn't seem that way!

It's humorous to me that you think that I'm deeply upset at the poor quality of The Last Jedi.  Do you imagine me as sat at my computer, surrounded by posters and figurines from the original trilogy, fuming at the sorry state of my most beloved of franchises, crying into my bowl of Star Wars branded cereal?  If so, that's only 1% correct (I think that I might have a Star Wars figurine from back when I was a kid, buried somewhere in my flat.  Damned if I know where though).

As I previously mentioned, I just enjoy a good train-wreck and digging my claws in.  Is that wrong of me?  Possibly but I couldn't give a hoot because I'm having too much fun, mocking the miserable output from a studio which has far too much money and power, to be healthy for the industry.  If I'm angry about anything, then it's that.  The Last Jedi itself?  I really couldn't care less.  It being a terrible movie has absolutely no impact on my life or taste in movies in general.  I do enjoy watching videos of other people, tearing into it on YouTube though.  Just like I enjoy watching the same types of videos for movies which I've never even watched (such as the Transformers sequels).

Ah, now it makes sense  You have to see things a few times to properly absorb them I find.  But initial responses aren't usually wrong.

You do know that I watch films more than once, right?  I've got a collection of close to 900 DVDs and Blu-Rays and I didn't buy those just to watch them the one time.

Having got that out of the way, some things aren't worth watching more than once.  The entire two series of Derek was more than enough the first time around, thank you very much.  Like I said, I did watch The Last Jedi a second time (no thanks to my friend) and yeah, it only confirmed what I already knew; it's shite (with a few mildly interesting moments).

If I watch a film and feel indifferent towards it (or even hate it but feel that there was some artistic merit), then I will absolutely give it another shot, to see if my opinion changes upon a second viewing (and it sometimes does) but that's for films, not movies.  Which are more often than not, by their very nature; disposable, Hollywood popcorn munching entertainment.  It's not like there's much to miss the first time around with a movie; you're not likely to pick up some incredible subtlety or nuance, that you failed to notice the first time around.  I'll happily re-watch a popcorn flick such as Raiders of the Lost Ark for the 79th time but I feel no need to re-watch Speed 2: Cruise Control, on the ridiculously slim off-chance that I somehow failed to recognise a cinematic masterpiece, the first time around.

Sometimes, I'll give a previously hated popcorn movie another chance, when it crops up on TV but generally speaking; nah.  There's better ways I could be spending my time.  For example, watching the thousands of brilliant films which I've yet to see the one time, let alone twice.

[Kelvin]

Find me anyone from Lucasfilm/Disney referring to these movies as part of a trilogy.

I can't be arsed to filter through hundreds of articles online, but I'm certain Kathleen Kennedy has said that they plan to put the mainline films away for a while after episode 9. She's definitely said they might not continue the Skywalker saga after that point.

That suggests they're making a trilogy, but that the're intending to make more films afterwards. The fact this will be a trilogy doesn't mean they can't make more films with Rey. It just means this current arc (Resistance vs First Order, Rey vs Kylo, classic characters at the forefront) will be over.

[St_Eddie]

I can't be arsed to filter through hundreds of articles online, but I'm certain Kathleen Kennedy has said that they plan to put the mainline films away for a while after episode 9. She's definitely said they might not continue the Skywalker saga after that point. That suggests they're making a trilogy, but that the're intending to make more films afterwards. The fact this will be a trilogy doesn't mean they can't make more films with Rey afterwards. It just means this current arc (Resistence vs First Order, Rey vs Kylo, classic characters at the forefront) will be over.

This is correct.  I remember reading that quote from Kennedy, quite a while ago.

[Dr Rock]

It just means this current arc (Resistance vs First Order, Rey vs Kylo, classic characters at the forefront) will be over.

Episode X will feature recognisable Empire/New Order in charge with plucky rebels/resistance/whatever you want to call them featuring heavily. The usual stuff. The next film can't have the rebels destroy all the New Order/Empire and bring galactic peace - because Disney paid $4M for this franchse and Episode X better be recognizable Star Wars, not a study of birds that live in Planet Puke or risk an Obi Wan movie as its big hitter.

So this 'trilogy' only has the fate of Kylo and Rey to tie up, big deal, he'll die and nobody will care. It's already failed as a trilogy as it was two terrible movies, doesn't matter if the next one is the bomb. And it won't work as a trilogy because nobody has any arcs and there are no mysteries to be solved.

The new Lucasfilm has no idea what they are doing and I would expect to see the giant hand of Mickey Mouse smack them upside their heads while they bring in a new team for Episode X, which will make no claims to be the start of a new trilogy, it's just a new episode every two years. And pray that they can make enough out of this cash-cow while they run it into the ground.

[Kelvin]

Episode X will feature recognisable Empire/New Order in charge with plucky rebels/resistance/whatever you want to call them featuring heavily. The usual stuff. The next film can't have the rebels destroy all the New Order/Empire and bring galactic peace - because Disney paid $4M for this franchse and Episode X better be recognizable Star Wars, not a study of birds that live in Planet Puke or risk an Obi Wan movie as its big hitter.

So this 'trilogy' only has the fate of Kylo and Rey to tie up, big deal, he'll die and nobody will care. It's already failed as a trilogy as it was two terrible movies, doesn't matter if the next one is the bomb. And it won't work as a trilogy because nobody has any arcs and there are no mysteries to be solved.

The quality/success of the films is by the by. Lucasfilm clearly consider this a trilogy. The characters and story will almost certainly reach a form of resolution/closure at the end of 9. The fact those characters will return at a later point is not in question, but that doesn't mean their current arcs won't be completed by the end of 9.

The series is already 8 episodes in, but we can clearly identify three distinct storylines, arcs, periods. The next set of films will almost certainly feature Rey, but with a new storyline and new arcs. I don't really understand why this is in contention. The fact Disney have paid for the films and plan to make hundreds of them does not prevent them from making this first set of films into it's own distinct trilogy. They can - and will - make many more mainline films, probably soon afterwards.       

[St_Eddie]

Episode X will feature recognisable Empire/New Order in charge with plucky rebels/resistance/whatever you want to call them featuring heavily. The usual stuff. The next film can't have the rebels destroy all the New Order/Empire and bring galactic peace - because Disney paid $4M for this franchse and Episode X better be recognizable Star Wars, not a study of birds that live in Planet Puke or risk an Obi Wan movie as its big hitter.

So this 'trilogy' only has the fate of Kylo and Rey to tie up, big deal, he'll die and nobody will care. It's already failed as a trilogy as it was two terrible movies, doesn't matter if the next one is the bomb. And it won't work as a trilogy because nobody has any arcs and there are no mysteries to be solved.

The new Lucasfilm has no idea what they are doing and I would expect to see the giant hand of Mickey Mouse smack them upside their heads while they bring in a new team for Episode X, which will make no claims to be the start of a new trilogy, it's just a new episode every two years. And pray that they can make enough out of this cash-cow while they run it into the ground.

I agree with most of what you said but I don't necessarily agree that the First Order/Resistance arc won't be resolved in Episode IX.  Maybe it won't, who knows but it's not like Disney needs to keep that set-up in play for the inevitable eventuality of Episodes X-XII and they'll probably want some sense of narrative closure for the current trilogy, which would mean the defeat of the First Order.

Disney pulled the First Order and Resistance out of their arse, as a way of lazily reestablishing the status quo of the original trilogy.  There's no reason that they can't do that again with the next trilogy.  Oh look, here's a new set of bad guys to replace the Empire/First order and here's a new ragtag group of opposers, to replace the Rebels/Resistance.  Job's a good 'un.  In reality, job's a bad 'un but it's not like Disney cares, so long as they're raking in piles of cash.

The quality/success of the films is by the by. Lucasfilm clearly consider this a trilogy. The characters and story will almost certainly reach a form of resolution/closure at the end of 9. The fact those characters will return at a later point is not in question, but that doesn't mean their current arcs won't be completed by the end of 9.

The is already 8 episodes in, but we can clearly identify three distinct storylines, arcs, periods. The next set of films will almost certainly feature Rey, but with a new storyline and a new arcs. I don't really understand why this is in contention. The fact Disney have paid for the films and plan to make hundreds of them does not prevent them from making this first set of films into it's own distinct trilogy. They can - and will - make many more mainline films, probably soon afterwards.     

Yep.

[Custard]

I still think the new trilogy will focus on that kid seen to have the force at the end of TLJ.

Hope the first film is just him sweeping up for 2.5 hours. Directed by David Lynch

[St_Eddie]

I still think the new trilogy will focus on that kid seen to have the force at the end of TLJ.

Possibly.  My own hunch is that Broom Boy will be the star of Rian Johnson's own upcoming side-trilogy.  It would make sense, seeming as the entirety of The Last Jedi was self-serving to Johnson's story, at the expense of the sequel trilogy as a whole.

[magval]

I think focusing on that kid is missing the point of Johnson's film, which is that it's not healthy to obsess on the mythology of the Star Wars films and hang on to rites, family lines and tropes, even full scenes from other movies lifted wholesale. The Last Jedi is a purely functional film - it serves to cut ties with a lot of the expectation that these films would follow a pattern of rote recitation of shit we've seen done better 30 years ago.

Johnson burned through as many as he could manage in The Last Jedi so that whoever was coming after him wouldn't just remake Return of the Jedi. However, at the time, I don't think anyone knew it would be nostalgia-fond JJ Abrams coming back to everything he'd established (and borrowed from the old films) being rubbished during TLJ.

To get to the point - the kid is there as a suggestion of what could come: anything. The far ends of the galaxy are full of seemingly inconsequential, potentially massive story possibilities. Focusing only on those that have been touched in some way by the events of the preceding films is wasteful and beholden. We've become conditioned to think that everything we see will be hugely important at some stage, and that these films should have a single linear pursuit of a cyclical myth. Bollix. Star Wars can be more than this.

[Blumf]

That's the big positive I took from the film too. Broom kid and Rey's unimportant family history step away from the dynastic obsession that had taken over Star Wars, where only people from the important family lines with the right geneticsmidichlorians get to be the heroes.

Still a hell of a lot wrong with TLJ mind, but I think it'll be worth it for that one change.

[Default to the negative]

I gave in and decided to rent this. I am rewatching it  at the moment.

Just got to the controversial Leia scene. Some people have said that this comes across as a cheesy 'She's flying into heaven!' sendoff. However, when I watched it for the second time I couldn't help having a more morbid interpretation of it. We see her floating serenely in space, drifting in slow-motion as someone out of time, in an almost transcendent state. She flies smoothly towards the ship and when she reaches the airlock, it suddenly cuts to her lying supine and unconscious while a breath mask is placed over her mouth.

I couldn't help thinking that it works as an unintentional dark allegory for Carrie getting high as kite and then ending up comatose with a ventilator. I apologise for my mind. But if you watch the scene, it truly does play like: 'This is the drug dream... but here is the reality.'

[Default to the negative]

It just now occurred to me that the alien caretakers of Luke's island seem like a (perhaps tasteless) joke about the real-life caretakers of Skellig Island, who complained that the film crew had damaged the property during the filming of The Force Awakens. Now in The Last Jedi, we have these aliens who complain about Rey's vandalism of the Ach-To island.

And the aliens are dressed like nuns, as an allusion to Catholic-Irishness.

[magval]

It just now occurred to me that the alien caretakers of Luke's island seem like a (perhaps tasteless) joke about the real-life caretakers of Skellig Island, who complained that the film crew had damaged the property during the filming of The Force Awakens. Now in The Last Jedi, we have these aliens who complain about Rey's vandalism of the Ach-To island.

And the aliens are dressed like nuns, as an allusion to Catholic-Irishness.

Oh aye, it's as clear as anything. Some serious punching down from the big Hollywood types there. Cunts.

[Default to the negative]

Also noticing that 90% of the new alien designs seem to be 'vaguely goat-faced creature', from the Resistance background extras to the racing goat-horses on Canto Bight.

And... that bit where Finn is riding pillion on the gorse with Rose, clinging tightly mounted behind her, and he says, 'Stop enjoying this! Stop enjoying this!' Oo-er!

Some of the CGI looks dodgy on the small-screen. There are times when the composite of Finn and Rose's gorseback escape doesn't look much better, or less pasted-in, than Leia's speeder chase in ROTJ.

[St_Eddie]

Also noticing that 90% of the new alien designs seem to be 'vaguely goat-faced creature', from the Resistance background extras to the racing goat-horses on Canto Bight.

Rian Johnson is on record as saying that the majority of the creature designs were inspired by the works of Hayao Miyazaki.  Now, I love the films of Miyazaki but perhaps he should have been influenced by the designs of pre-established universe.  Also, Johnson ain't no Miyazaki, much as he wishes he were.

[phantom_power]

Just because he was influenced by Miyazaki doesn't mean it was the main influence and that he wasn't also influenced by the design from previous Star Wars films. I think the new alien designs fit in well with the established universe. OK there may be no Wolfmen or ETs but  in general the creature design was good

[greenman]

What came to mind most for me was actually The Fifth Element, that whole casino section especially.

[Default to the negative]

I have to say, I ended up enjoying this a lot more when I watched it for the second time. When you know what to expect, the pieces fit together in a more fluid way. I did not feel like it was jostling to subvert my expectations because it cannot do that when you have already seen the film.

The humour still falls flat for me, but I found that it didn't land with such a painful thud when I was forewarned and forearmed. It may also help that I was not in the cinema and failed jokes don't have the same depressing tumbleweed effect when you are watching at home. There is not the same emphasis on each moment. And some of the 'jokes' in The Last Jedi aren't really jokes, when you consider them in a neutral way. For example, Luke throwing away his lightsaber: this is a perfectly acceptable character moment if you don't think of it as a joke or a twist.

And I do like the action and the scenery quite a bit. So... I am going to upgrade my 5/10 score to a 7/10. The verdict is in - now you can all finally get some sleep at night.

What came to mind most for me was actually The Fifth Element, that whole casino section especially.

Definitely a Fifth Element vibe there.

[phantom_power]

What came to mind most for me was actually The Fifth Element, that whole casino section especially.

Yeah I can see that, but I still think there is a "Star Wars" feel to it as well. It is just a different part of the world than we have seen

[Kelvin]

I thought the Casino was the part that felt most like the prequels. The opera singer screaming a high note, the little goblin messing about with BB-8. The whole thing looked artificial, and felt geared towards kids, rather than everyone.

[Default to the negative]

I thought the Casino was the part that felt most like the prequels.

Yes there are some creatures - like the insectoid soprano lady - that nearly take us back into Ben Quadrinos territory.



It's one of the film's low points, for sure.

[Kelvin]

It's not just the goofy, incongruous CGI elements, though, to be clear. It's the actual tone of that entire section. The moment where the horse aliens stampede through the wall and the opera singer screams at a high pitch is pure prequels. I think it's the most consistently bad part of the film by some margin.

[Ferris]

The casino felt a bit Harry Potter, if I'm honest.

Two cheerful young characters thrust into a magical sparkly world they know nothing about, with the weakest peril in the whole thing, then they ride around whooping on some new magical animals that had only been introduced a few minutes before and the mean evil people in their mean evil casino get their tables flipped over!

Some literal riding off into the sunset, then the ending of that scene which is fairly clear they wrote themselves into a blind alley and needed Deus Ex Del Toro to get out of it.

Daft.

[Dr Rock]

Animals should be free, not used!

Going to have to reshoot all that stuff in Empire where Luke and Han are riding around on TaunTauns.

[St_Eddie]

...The opera singer screaming...

Urghhhhh! (in an operatic tone)

[Dex Sawash]

I picked up the dvd last night. Planning to skip the Poe scenes, Rose scenes and the side mission to casino scenes.

[Dex Sawash]

This deleted scene started off looking like a good one but turns to shit

https://youtu.be/z_z7ubNhtZw

[Default to the negative]

This deleted scene started off looking like a good one but turns to shit

https://youtu.be/z_z7ubNhtZw

Those parochial Celts were making sounds of distress... but it turns out they were making a big fuss about nothing.

It's another joke about Skellig Island, isn't it?

[Glebe]

The casino felt a bit Harry Potter, if I'm honest.

Serge enters thread brandishing cricket bat.

[Dr Rock]

This deleted scene started off looking like a good one but turns to shit

https://youtu.be/z_z7ubNhtZw

So the Jedi Manual says don't help people in danger because you might help in the short term but probably that danger will return and worse. So do nothing unless you can maintain order. So do you see? That the shittty Jedi religion is not what's needed now, but your bravery Rey.  But do you see? Jedi's are shit - I'm shit. You da bomb. I'm shit and the Jedi Laws are shit, but you're awesome because you breakz da law. Do you see? Did I mention I'm shit? It's important.