Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Mister Six]

But you're not sorry at all, are you?

Oh yes, I've really been enjoying all of this discussion about THE NEW STAR WARS FILM.

You navel-gazing professional bores. 'Excuthe me, I have to win the ahguwment about thubjectivity!' Can we talk about Star Wars please.

Ok.

Star Wars is objectively shit, isn't it?

[Dr Rock]

Can we talk about Star Wars please.

Write a third film that would save this trilogy.

[Default to the negative]

Ok.

Star Wars is objectively shit, isn't it?

I know you think that, and it is why you have tag-teamed with others to do a big jobbie all over the Star Wars thread. But haven't you already done enough?

Write a third film that would save this trilogy.

That's a big ask.

Obviously we have do deal with Leia's death, probably starting the film with her funeral. Rather than have this be a perfunctory step, it can serve a plot purpose. They open Leia's last will and testament, a holo-recording which reveals all sorts of sordid family secrets. What those might be, I don't know, but there is potential to drop some bombshells there. Maybe she left Han because he was a spice-addict. Maybe she didn't hug Chewie in TFA because she never liked him, and saw him as one of Han's enablers. Maybe she fucked Lando for revenge.

Kylo didn't know about this but he picked up the psychic family damage through osmosis. That's his arc in the new film, realising that it was all their fault. He will be vindicated through these revelations. On top of that, Uncle Luke was a creepy old guy who creeped into his hut at night to watch Kylo sleeping, and would then blame Kylo for being the one with nasty thoughts. Like those priests who project their sins onto others.

Lucas is on record as saying that Star Wars is a soap opera. I say we really bring out those trashy soap elements.

[Mister Six]

I know you think that, and it is why you have tag-teamed with others to do a big jobbie all over the Star Wars thread. But haven't you already done enough?

Oh pssshhh, it's a joke.

I'm guessing they'll have to bring Luke back to fulfill whatever familial role Leia would have played, assuming they're sticking to whatever plan (however vague) they had before.

Mostly though I'd like to see them use Carrie Fisher's death to follow through through on the "out with the old" message of TLJ. No more monarchies or family soap opera shit - new force users emerging, like that kid with the mop; a democratisation of the Force and a mass revolt against the New Order (who are basically just the Empire at this point, seems like) with an ending that isn't predicated on a lone hero saving the day.

Also give Finn more to do because Rey is dull as dishwater.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I don't think "Let the past die" was the message of the film. For one thing, it's said by the villain. For another, Luke's arc is all about rejecting this attitude, culminating with him sacrificing his life to revive the reputation of the Jedi.

[Mister Six]

Luke and Yoda agree they have to burn down the Jedi order and let something new flourish, so it's not all Kylo. And the general tone of the film seemed to be quasi-revolutionary (the system is corrupt, arms dealers profit from everyone, rich people are abusing the poor and need to see their comeuppance, the newest Force user is a poor slave boy, not a princess, and Rey's family were "nobodies").

Kylo's idea of something new is the same old shit, but with him and Rey at the top. Luke and Yoda seem to favour a complete overthrow of the existing systems.

Since all of the old guard are dead, fictionally or in real life (except Lando - I wouldn't mind seeing him again, actually), this seems like a good opportunity to follow through with those philosophies - have the new trilogy be about establishing a new philosophy rather than restoring the old republic for a second time.

[Default to the negative]

Also give Finn more to do because Rey is dull as dishwater.

Finn could have been the most interesting character, if they have addressed the fact that he is a former child soldier. He should have borne scars from the brainwashing and it should have taken some time - maybe a whole trilogy arc - to deprogram him from that. But nope, as soon as he removes the stormtrooper gear he becomes one of the jolly adventure gang. Any potentially interesting character traits are gone within seconds.

I don't think "Let the past die" was the message of the film. For one thing, it's said by the villain.

It says that while shamelessly mining the past.

Obviously Rey/Luke is a mirror of Luke/Yoda.

But more than that, the Finn/Rose subplot has strong structural parallels with ROTJ. Once Han has been rescued from Jabba's palace, the only meaningful part of the story that's left is for Luke to face Vader and the Emperor. For character and dramatic reasons, he must do this alone and the others must be separated. So they are given some busywork on Endor. The exact same kind of 'something to do' that's given to Finn and Rose when they are sent on their wild goose chase to Canto Bight.

[Custard]

So we've had the Original trilogy, the Prequel trilogy, and now the Sequel trilogy.

There's nothing left to call the next one, so I think they just won't bother.

Would Treacle trilogy work?

[Default to the negative]

So we've had the Original trilogy, the Prequel trilogy, and now the Sequel trilogy.

There's nothing left to call the next one, so I think they just won't bother.

Would Treacle trilogy work?

It will be SWCU. Star Wars Cinematic Universe. They are just inches away from calling it that.

[Dr Rock]

https://youtu.be/dLYUc5t6wag

This is an interesting take on how Rian Johnson broke the set-up (and then reverted to it) and is good watching for anyone trying to make a third film tie up all the themes, which should lead somewhat to plot.

[Custard]

I reckon JJ Abrams would quite like to punch Rian Johnson all over the face

[greenman]

https://youtu.be/dLYUc5t6wag

This is an interesting take on how Rian Johnson broke the set-up (and then reverted to it) and is good watching for anyone trying to make a third film tie up all the themes, which should lead somewhat to plot.

He does pick out the films largest fault correctly I'd say, setting up Rey joining Kylo and then turning away from it. I still suspect that this was down to Disney/Lucas/Film/Abrams myself who weren't willing to allow Johnson to take that kind of risk.

I would say as well though that video repeats another obvious fault in the film, it looks to ignore that the originals did actually address a lot of the same issues in an arguably more successful fashion. I mean the idea of the pure "good guys" is brought into question right from the first film isn't it with Han being a mercenary and is then revisited with Lando in Empire. Equally Luke isn't just pushed towards being purely good, he has to confront is personal darkness when facing Vader in the sequels and indeed redeem Vader rather than defeating him.

By comparison the casino and DJ sections just come across as incredibly childish relative to Lando's story, the Poe story simply non sensical and the Luke story poorly sold, his showing his darkness when Vader threatens Leia relative to looking to kill his student in his sleep because of a "bad feeling".

The Empire rising again in an identical fashion is of course down to Abrams as well rather than the original films.

[Shit Good Nose]

Rey is dull as dishwater.

I think a large part of that problem is that Daisy Ridley is such an abysmal actress.

Or, at least, hasn't yet developed main character chops.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

He does pick out the films largest fault correctly I'd say, setting up Rey joining Kylo and then turning away from it.

Ben Ren was willing to let the resistance (including his own mother and Rey's only friends) get bombed to oblivion though. It's hardly hypocritcal of her to say "bollocks to that". One of the themes of the film is balance, as opposed to extreme absolutism (represented by the recurring allusions to the yin yang symbol, such as the mosaic on Craggy Island and Rose's necklace). Kylo is all scorched earth fanaticism (as initially is Luke), whereas Rey can move forward while preserving the things that truly matter. Then you've got Yoda happily torching the manky dead tree, because he knows that it's literally and figuratively empty.

[Mister Six]

Who's Ben Renewed? Is he from extended universe stuff?

I think a large part of that problem is that Daisy Ridley is such an abysmal actress.

Or, at least, hasn't yet developed main character chops.

She's an all right actress, I think - she just doesn't have enough charisma or talent to elevate an under-written role. And that last bit is key, because Rey is very thinly sketched indeed.

Rey has no background, no relationships and seemingly no particular desires. She doesn't have any character flaws (unlike Finn, who - despite being underwritten for a stormtrooper, as established above - does have a moment of PTSD/cowardice that sees him briefly deserting his pals on that Aztec-looking planet) nor does she display much of a sense of humour.

She's a standard Hollywood Strong Female Character, which means she's heavy on Strong and Female, and light on Character. She's also a bit of a Mary Sue (not a word I like to use too much, but applicable here and in the recent Star Trek) in that she's flawless and quickly becomes not just a super-powerful Force user but also able to fly the Millennium Falcon and earn the respect of Han and Leia without much effort.

[greenman]

Ben Ren was willing to let the resistance (including his own mother and Rey's only friends) get bombed to oblivion though. It's hardly hypocritcal of her to say "bollocks to that". One of the themes of the film is balance, as opposed to extreme absolutism (represented by the recurring allusions to the yin yang symbol, such as the mosaic on Craggy Island and Rose's necklace). Kylo is all scorched earth fanaticism (as initially is Luke), whereas Rey can move forward while preserving the things that truly matter. Then you've got Yoda happily torching the manky dead tree, because he knows that it's literally and figuratively empty.

That video does perhaps mischaracterise Kylo was representing the moral choice but I think he represents the interesting choice, the choice with gives the potential for a story of more depth were as Rey's rejection of him kills any depth reverting her and him to very dull good and evil.

That should probably have gone hand to hand with Luke himself having moved towards a philosophy that embraces more balance between light and dark which could imagine provide a resolution in a 3rd film.

[Dr Rock]

(As the video postulates on the film's behalf) The Force senses if there's peace and makes an evil counterbalance? I don't want The Force to behave like that, ensuring whole planets are blown up.

[idunnosomename]

Still think the Thrawn Trilogy was better than this shit

[St_Eddie]

Tie Fighter

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight

Knights of the Old Republic

They are the best Star Wars games.

That is all.

[Sin Agog]

Rogue Squadron.

[St_Eddie]

Rogue Squadron.

Oohhh, yes.  I like that one too.

[Dex Sawash]

Rumors that Finn may actually be a wookie, Boyega reveals

"I can't wait to start shooting the next and final leg of the franchise. The first step is growing out my hair, so you can wait for the trailer to see why."   

[momatt]

He does a good Wookie growl in interviews, seems plausible to me.

[Bad Ambassador]

I wish those two would just bang already.

[Deanjam]

Finally watched this. Liked everything with Kylo-Rey-Luke. Didn't care for the 300 sub plots.

[St_Eddie]

I'm currently replaying Star Wars Episode I: Racer because it's been released on GOG.  It's held up surprisingly well.  Good game.

Finally watched this. Liked everything with Kylo-Rey-Luke. Didn't care for the 300 sub plots.

Oh, I don't know.  Sub-plot #243 had its moments.

[Shit Good Nose]

Didn't care for the 300 sub plots.

And those are just the ones they left in.

B'BOOM!

[Glebe]

EX. ANDY SERKIS ON REEVES' BATMAN & THE FATES OF SNOKE, KLAUE & CAESAR.

We've seen three of your signature characters, Caesar, Ulysses Klaue and Snoke, get killed onscreen over the course of the last year. What's it like for you to say goodbye to these characters that you've inhabited multiple times?

"I mean, look, Caesar really was like ripping my heart out when he died. All the way through his life I played him, you know, from infancy through to sweet goodnight. So, that one was hard to say goodbye, it really was, over the course of three movies. And, Ulysses Klaue, I was having such a good time playing him. I was very sad to say goodbye to him, too. And Snoke...well, who knows about Snoke? Who knows? [laughs]"

I never really copped that, three big Serkis characters all getting the chop,.

[mothman]

And Gollum. And King Kong. And Ian Dury. He's died more times then Sean Bean.

[bgmnts]

Have there been bare tits in Star Wars ever?