Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Norton Canes]

I hope there's a scene where they have to force-feel a disabled.

#gervaisjokes

Tweaked.

[Replies From View]

THE STRAUSS LEVI

[St_Eddie]

I hope this film will put some of the most common criticisms to rest. I don't like TFA much and I don't want to leap to its defence. But I will have a stroke if I have to read one more comment about how Rey is a Mary Sue with inexplicable powers.

It's obvious that she HAD been trained in the force but was mind-wiped as a way of protecting her during the purge of the jedi academy. It was Kylo who wiped her memory. He murdered all of Luke's other students but couldn't bring himself to kill the little girl (we see that he still has attacks of conscience), so he gave her a force-lobotomy and left her on Jakku.

The film goes out of its way to show that Kylo can mind-rape people. Put the clues together and you get the obvious explanation.

Your faith in your friends at Disney is your weakness.

[Default to the negative]

Your overconfidence is yours.

[Dannyhood91]

Best Star Wars story tbh

[greenman]

I hope this film will put some of the most common criticisms to rest. I don't like TFA much and I don't want to leap to its defence. But I will have a stroke if I have to read one more comment about how Rey is a Mary Sue with inexplicable powers.

It's obvious that she HAD been trained in the force but was mind-wiped as a way of protecting her during the purge of the jedi academy. It was Kylo who wiped her memory. He murdered all of Luke's other students but couldn't bring himself to kill the little girl (we see that he still has attacks of conscience), so he gave her a force-lobotomy and left her on Jakku.

The film goes out of its way to show that Kylo can mind-rape people. Put the clues together and you get the obvious explanation.

It doesn't really help that the term doesn't seem to have a hard and fast definition. I see it used to refer to a characters competence as a plot hole which you could argue TFA does give us enough to suggest explanations but also its often used to refer to a characters competence and there audience wish fulfilment taking the place of decent drama.

I think that's much more the weakness of Abrams filum, he sets up Rey as having some depth early on with the idea of her being tied to waiting on Jakku but then pretty much dumps that idea in favour of her showing ever greater competence and depends on the audiences attachment to things like the Force and Luke to set them up rather than giving her a reason to care about them.

[mothman]

The Force Awakens / The Last Jedi / From His Nap.

(sadly not my idea)

[Default to the negative]

I think that's much more the weakness of Abrams filum, he sets up Rey as having some depth early on with the idea of her being tied to waiting on Jakku but then pretty much dumps that idea in favour of her showing ever greater competence and depends on the audiences attachment to things like the Force and Luke to set them up rather than giving her a reason to care about them.

Is this any different from Episode IV?

People will say, "Oh, but it makes sense that Luke would be a good X-wing pilot because back on Tatooine he used to shoot womp rats in his T-16."

But his airspeeder does not give him the transferrable skills to fly through space battles. That's like saying that if someone can drive a car, they also have the required knowledge to be a fighter pilot.

Without any training at all, Luke becomes an ace bomber. Who showed him how to use the controls on the X-Wing console? No one, there was no scene to establish that. He didn't train with the rebels and he didn't go the imperial academy. He just "knows" how to do it.

And where was this T-16 anyway? You never see it in the film and there doesn't seem to be any kind of airspeeder hangar on the Lars homestead.

[momatt]

comment about how Rey is a Mary Sue with inexplicable powers

I've seen this a bit and don't even get how it's a criticism.  Barely makes any sense.
Also, it's fucking Star Wars.  It's meant to be a bit fantastical.  Otherwise I may as well watch Eastenders.

[St_Eddie]

Like George Lucas these days, I've got way too much time on my hands and so, I've created a Special Edition of The Kraken Awakens.  This is how I'd always intended it to be but the technology simply didn't exist to fully realise my vision 3 hours ago...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9l0_GoiZKB3WGdFVEREMnVXcTA

[greenman]

Is this any different from Episode IV?

People will say, "Oh, but it makes sense that Luke would be a good X-wing pilot because back on Tatooine he used to shoot womp rats in his T-16."

But his airspeeder does not give him the transferrable skills to fly through space battles. That's like saying that if someone can drive a car, they also have the required knowledge to be a fighter pilot.

Without any training at all, Luke becomes an ace bomber. Who showed him how to use the controls on the X-Wing console? No one, there was no scene to establish that. He didn't train with the rebels and he didn't go the imperial academy. He just "knows" how to do it.

And where was this T-16 anyway? You never see it in the film and there doesn't seem to be any kind of airspeeder hangar on the Lars homestead.

I'd say it terms of shear competence we see less of it from Luke and at least some training in the force to explain his success destroying the Death star, besides that he spends a lot of the film getting saved by other characters.

Really though as I said I think the big issue is more on the dramatic side, Luke was built up as a dreamer who wanted to leave home and follow in his fathers footsteps and a lot of his plot worked with that, with Rey I think there was much more of a dependence on shear competence and her being a proxy for the audience. The film never really bothered to setup what she felt about the Force on Luke and didn't even I'd say do much to setup a relationship with Han, all that stuff just depended on the audiences attachment to those things.

[Default to the negative]

Luke and at least some training in the force to explain his success destroying the Death star

Like what though?

Apart from 2 minutes with that sparring droid, Luke receives no training at all. Obi-wan shows off his techniques but he never actually teaches Luke how to do these things.

[momatt]

I always imagine they spend longer on the Falcon than we see.  So it's not a couple of minutes, it's hours or days.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Also since he's Vader's nipper he's adept as fuck at the force, he was blocking shots blind within (presumed) hours+ on the Falcon, hearing Obi Wan speak post sabering shortly after that and hitting TIEs at the same rate as Han.

Rei just comes off as too powerful and too knowing too quickly that it's a bit jarring to the audience, I get she's likely fallout from the Academy collapsing on Luke and that he or similar dropped her off on Jakku cos he thinks he's a danger to everyone but it just makes her stick out weirdly in TFA but then perhaps she's supposed to.

[Big Jack McBastard]

But his airspeeder does not give him the transferrable skills to fly through space battles. That's like saying that if someone can drive a car, they also have the required knowledge to be a fighter pilot.

Top speed of 1,200km/h so it's more like a fighter pilot flying a spacecraft which is much more likely.

The Incom Corporation T-16 Skyhopper was equipped with an ion drive[1] and a fully pressurized cockpit, allowing it to operate at trans-orbital altitudes.

Might as well be a light fighter craft.

Without any training at all, Luke becomes an ace bomber. Who showed him how to use the controls on the X-Wing console? No one, there was no scene to establish that. He didn't train with the rebels and he didn't go the imperial academy. He just "knows" how to do it.

And where was this T-16 anyway? You never see it in the film and there doesn't seem to be any kind of airspeeder hangar on the Lars homestead.

He doesn't become an ace bomber, he gets a good shot off by actively using the force in a crucial moment after Han saves his ass from certain-Vader-based doom. We also don't see the Bothans dying for the information on the exhaust port, we don't see the diamond mines at Sullust or the Kessel run, we don't get all the cake.

[Dannyhood91]

I hope it turns out everyone is droids. Droids for taking out the rubbish.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Here's a thing, unless Han has recorded some heartbreaking holotapes to break Ben/Kylo's mind at a crucial moment who's gonna redeem him? Leia would have been the obvious choice but with CF turning up her toes and Han dead it's left to Luke who fucked it all up in the first place (apparently).

Either that or Ben dies as Kylo Ren at Rei or Luke's hand and that doesn't seem too likely, he's too much of a pansy to keep it up surely? Unless Snoke is some weasel to bad-ass trainer of course. It'd be funny if Kylo's actor got himself ripped to fuck, de-Scwhimmer'd his face and poncy hair and looks like a proper mental hard-case in the next one.

[Replies From View]

I hope it turns out everyone is droids. Droids for taking out the rubbish.

Droids for taking out the rubbish that the Wookiee's are dreaming about during the Star Wars Holiday Special.

It would be brilliant if the final scene of Episode IX was the Wookiees waking up from their dream and cracking on with more Holiday Special stuff (whilst stamping/spitting on a smashed photo-in-a-frame of George Lucas).

And then no more Star Wars stuff ever again!  Bliss!!

[Default to the negative]

We also don't see the Bothans dying for the information on the exhaust port

How many times must we remind ourselves that the Many Bothans died for the second Death Star, in RotJ, and not the first one?

He doesn't become an ace bomber, he gets a good shot off by actively using the force in a crucial moment after Han saves his ass from certain-Vader-based doom.

He does magically become an ace bomber. He's the only pilot to do the trench run, despite this being his first time in action.

Here's a thing, unless Han has recorded some heartbreaking holotapes to break Ben/Kylo's mind at a crucial moment who's gonna redeem him?

If I am right in my theory, then it will probably be Rey who redeems him - again. His first redeeming act was when he spared her, when the Knights of Ren were massacring Luke's pupils.

[Big Jack McBastard]

He does magically become an ace bomber. He's the only pilot to do the trench run, despite this being his first time in action.

He gets lucky/forcey. Gold Leader gets minced halfway into his run then Red leader tries and misses: 'Negative negative, it didn't go in it just impacted on the surface'. Then Luke goes in with pals.

If I am right in my theory, then it will probably be Rey who redeems him - again. His first redeeming act was when he spared her, when the Knights of Ren were massacring Luke's pupils.

He's too much of a wuss, weak link like that needs purging, if Snoke doesn't sense what a mimsy he is then he deserves to get his ass kicked too.

[St_Eddie]

He does magically become an ace bomber. He's the only pilot to do the trench run, despite this being his first time in action.

I'm loath to say this but that was because Obi-Wan communicated to Luke via the force at the crucial moment, allowing Luke to focus his force powers in order to save the day.  I'm loath to say it because having 'the force' be the solution to many iffy moments in Star Wars is par for the course because it essentially boils down to "a wizard did it"; quite literally.  Lazy, fucking hacky story telling at it's worst.

Still, regarding Luke's torpedo shot during the trench run; a wizard did it by focusing Luke's mind.  Them's be the facts.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Just watched TFA again for the first time since seeing it at the cinema. I have a controversial opinion/prediction that the next one is gonna be the best one, perhaps not Empire-good but maybe a close second. Luke as Obi-Wan, reluctant or otherwise is gonna be a brain tingler, Kylo is nicely scarred up already so all he has to do is get a bit Darth Sion and be less of a blouse to turn it around. Yeah Rey is clearly a fallout-from-the-failed-Academy kid, the kicker there is she *might* be Luke's daughter cos she's strong enough to out do Leia's sprog which makes sense.

What would make him fit for me is if Snoke is actually morally ambiguous rather than 'evil', I mean he's not cackley-emperor evil, bit shouty but he just seems to be filling the post of Head Bastard cos the seat was vacant and he was the most gnarly looking. It's gonna be a Wizard of Oz and he's 4ft or else a lanky 11ft freak isn't it. He doesn't look like he'd be much with a lightsaber, so then you have to think 'How powerful is he?' Cos Kylo is a bit shit as an apprentice (though it's early days perhaps he'll shape up). Was he lurking in the background while Palpatine was around and if so how come no chat?

Despite their nasty toys the First Order don't pose much of a threat on a one to one basis in TFA unless they're Stormtroopers doing scorched earth, everyone rolls over them in the air and in space and in their stations. There also wasn't enough of their ideological stance expressed beyond, 'order' and that's actually somewhat desirable so perhaps them and the Resistance should all have a big chat rather than doing all this fighting lark?

First Order does all the infrastructure and law and that and the Resistance.... erm.. actually there's more of the First Order's ideology on show than the Republic/Resistance, they don't explain themselves at all and never have, now especially with their government dead they're just a military force fighting another larger military force with better tech.

[Default to the negative]

It's gonna be a Wizard of Oz and he's 4ft or else a lanky 11ft freak isn't it.

It's possible that he isn't a real person at all. Might just be an AI coupled with a hologram.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Oh aye them thingies, Holocrons, outside chance he could be a long dead Sith lord literally deus ex machina-ing it and dispensing wisdom, they were supposed to be capable of training new bods to a point at least.

[thecuriousorange]

At least it's not called something of the something.

[greenman]

Just watched TFA again for the first time since seeing it at the cinema. I have a controversial opinion/prediction that the next one is gonna be the best one, perhaps not Empire-good but maybe a close second. Luke as Obi-Wan, reluctant or otherwise is gonna be a brain tingler, Kylo is nicely scarred up already so all he has to do is get a bit Darth Sion and be less of a blouse to turn it around. Yeah Rey is clearly a fallout-from-the-failed-Academy kid, the kicker there is she *might* be Luke's daughter cos she's strong enough to out do Leia's sprog which makes sense.

What would make him fit for me is if Snoke is actually morally ambiguous rather than 'evil', I mean he's not cackley-emperor evil, bit shouty but he just seems to be filling the post of Head Bastard cos the seat was vacant and he was the most gnarly looking. It's gonna be a Wizard of Oz and he's 4ft or else a lanky 11ft freak isn't it. He doesn't look like he'd be much with a lightsaber, so then you have to think 'How powerful is he?' Cos Kylo is a bit shit as an apprentice (though it's early days perhaps he'll shape up). Was he lurking in the background while Palpatine was around and if so how come no chat?

Despite their nasty toys the First Order don't pose much of a threat on a one to one basis in TFA unless they're Stormtroopers doing scorched earth, everyone rolls over them in the air and in space and in their stations. There also wasn't enough of their ideological stance expressed beyond, 'order' and that's actually somewhat desirable so perhaps them and the Resistance should all have a big chat rather than doing all this fighting lark?

First Order does all the infrastructure and law and that and the Resistance.... erm.. actually there's more of the First Order's ideology on show than the Republic/Resistance, they don't explain themselves at all and never have, now especially with their government dead they're just a military force fighting another larger military force with better tech.

However much Red Letter Media cry over a move away from the Abrams formula I found Rogue One a positive sign as well that they'll let the director involved be more than just a hired hand. Personally I did like Looper quite a bit even if it was on shakey ground as hard science fiction and Johnson does seem quite suitable for SW to me as a result, hopefully he's allowed to dump the goofy/meta humour from TFA the way Rogue One mostly did as well.

Ultimately TFA comes across more as a stopgap to me than a launch for a new trilogy, shows us a few new characters without adding much depth to them, creates a few "mystery boxes" and leaves us with a situation that could have existed at the start of the film again without much detail. That really leaves the following film with the real task of providing most of the setup but does also give it a pretty free hand.

[Old Nehamkin]

I thought TFA was a fun adventure film and I'm looking forward to seeing those characters again, but I wish I hadn't bothered watching Rogue One because I really found it a dreary load of shite and it's largely sapped my appetite for new Star Wars stuff. I'll still go and see it, but the new status of the series as yet another indefinite Cinematic Universe has robbed the main entries of a lot of the special event quality that they'd have otherwise, and I think that's a shame.

However much Red Letter Media cry over a move away from the Abrams formula

This seems like a very contrived reading of their review. From what I remember they mainly talked (or "cried" if you like) about finding the characters bland and underdeveloped and the fanservice excessive. Fair do's if you don't agree, but to write them off as blind devotees of Abrams just because they broadly enjoyed his film more than Edwards' seems quite unfair.

[Replies From View]

It's possible that he isn't a real person at all. Might just be an AI coupled with a hologram.

Might be Matt Smith, like Skynet ended up being.

[Replies From View]

At least it's not called something of the something.

Actually you are wrong because its full name is The Last of the Jedi.

[greenman]

This seems like a very contrived reading of their review. From what I remember they mainly talked (or "cried" if you like) about finding the characters bland and underdeveloped and the fanservice excessive. Fair do's if you don't agree, but to write them off as blind devotees of Abrams just because they broadly enjoyed his film more than Edwards' seems quite unfair.

I never really understood this aspect especially, the film does of course look to recreate the setting of the originals but really in terms of "nudge nudge" style references I only caught a couple of very short ones with the bar aliens and 3PO/R2. The latter kind of cheaper nostalgia is I think much more present in TFA.

Admittedly I'v not watched everything they've posted on the film but some of it just seemed wantonly dishonest, there commentary and selective editing of that street shootout for example claiming it was totally devoid of character which obviously wasn't the case at all, several character based moments during it including some humorous then obviously the droid stuff directly afterwards.

I do think there very much tied to Abrams style simply because they've either been directly praising it or filmmaking very close to it for years beforehand. Granted there also pretty entertaining at points but really that's been the basis of there popularity and indeed that of so many less entertaining youtube clones. The prequels were badly flawed films but I think in the end a lot of their and others analysis of them was rather simplistic cinema 101 and a film that pretty much followed it for me ended up being a competent but largely forgettable diversion nowhere close to the originals.