Author Topic: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 81306 times)

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2040 on: April 16, 2018, 04:12:38 PM »
UN JABBA WANKA?  NEW PAGAR UNNA FAP FAP FAP!

I do, rather cynically, believe that a lot of the goodwill that The Force Awakens initially garnered was down to it being seen in opposition to the prequels.

I agree with this.  I think that many people were stoked to have a new Star Wars movie which, unlike the prequels, had comparatively good acting and relatively decent dialogue.  It was also initially appealing to a lot of folks because it reintroduced all of the old designs and characters from the original trilogy, of course.  Time has not been kind however and nowadays, an increasing number of people are recognising the Emperor's new clothes for what they are.  Palpatine's butt naked, you guys!

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2041 on: April 16, 2018, 04:18:45 PM »
Palpatine's butt naked, you guys!

CUT TO: A Lucasfilm temp who reads this on his computer, quickly scribbles down on his notepad "A STAR WARS STORY: NUDIST PALPATINE SPIN-OFF", then gets the project green-lit for a 2023 release.

mothman

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2042 on: April 16, 2018, 05:05:03 PM »
Like Infinity War, it'll be the culmination, what they've been building up to ever since they greenlit the sequel trilogy and the spin-offs.

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2043 on: April 16, 2018, 05:38:38 PM »
Like Infinity War, it'll be the culmination, what they've been building up to ever since they greenlit the sequel trilogy and the spin-offs.

They haven't even been able to plan the sequel trilogy's narrative in advance.  They're winging it as they go.  I doubt that Disney has some grand narrative plan that they're building towards with Star Wars, other than milking the cash cow's udders dry and filling their buckets with gallons of sweet, sweet moolah.

What Disney needs to do, is to get an equivalent to Kevin Feige on board; someone who has a vision for the narrative at large.  Kathleen Kennedy's reign over the series has been an absolute joke, thus far.  She has no vision and has twice now, proven to be incompetent when it comes to choosing and overseeing directors (Rogue One and Solo).

mothman

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2044 on: April 16, 2018, 06:48:39 PM »
Oh, I agree. I was being sarcastic, in case you really thought I see a nude Palpatine film as the logical endpoint for such a hypothetical build-up!

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2045 on: April 16, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »
Oh, I agree. I was being sarcastic, in case you really thought I see a nude Palpatine film as the logical endpoint for such a hypothetical build-up!

Sorry, I didn't realise that you were replying to myself and @Ant Farm Keyboard, as you didn't quote either of us.  I thought that it was a non-sequitur and a genuine thought of Disney's plan for the series (not the nude Palpatine part, obviously).  In hindsight; yeah, of course.  Just ignore me, I've been awake for over 24 hours now and my brain is failing me, even more than usual.

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2046 on: April 16, 2018, 08:18:15 PM »
By the way, big plans do fail.

Lucas had the entire prequel trilogy mapped out with a clear ending in sight. It resulted in a slog without much room for suspense.

Then, the informal idea for the sequel trilogy was to have each episode featuring a strong involvement by one of the three lead character from the original trilogy, Han, Luke, and Leia. Due to circumstances, it will never be possible. So, it's a blessing in disguise that they didn't have plans set in stone and that they are able to continue the plot rather than sacrificing an entire beautiful script that echoes the previous two episodes. Maybe they will be able to address the absence of Leia in an elegiac way (get Lando back, have some kind of flashback cameo by Harrison Ford, etc.) and the actual Ep. IX will be all the better for it.

Also, there are claims (by Rian Johnson, Mark Hamill and the official companion books) that The Last Jedi actually used material from the synopses written by Lucas and sold to Disney along with Lucasfilm. Previous reports, at the time of TFA, were that it had been completely discarded. It turns out that it had mostly been delayed, with TFA serving as a soft reboot to establish better the characters Lucas had created. Han and Leia were supposed to have a single son, who would turn to the Dark Side, Luke was supposed to be a reluctant Jedi master who handles a new female apprentice. It's just that it was supposed to be the focus of Lucas' Ep. VII, and it was ultimately developed in TLJ.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/270073/star-wars-how-george-lucas-episode-vii-outline-became-the-last-jedi

Luke was also to die at the end of Ep. IX, after completing the training of... Leia.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/03/26/mark-hamill-reveals-ending-to-george-lucas-star-wars-episode-9

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2047 on: April 16, 2018, 08:40:18 PM »
It's true that the prequels aren't the sequels. The two words are spelled differently.

I do, rather cynically, believe that a lot of the goodwill that The Force Awakens initially garnered was down to it being seen in opposition to the prequels.

I'd say it benefited quite significantly from just how strong the culture of dislike to the prequels had become, it felt more likle a sequel to those Red Letter media videos than to Starwars.

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2048 on: April 16, 2018, 09:51:52 PM »
They haven't even been able to plan the sequel trilogy's narrative in advance.  They're winging it as they go. 

So it's keeping to the spirit of the original trilogy then.


I doubt that Disney has some grand narrative plan that they're building towards with Star Wars, other than milking the cash cow's udders dry and filling their buckets with gallons of sweet, sweet moolah.

When George Lucas was running Star Wars did people regard the movies as some kind of local amateur theatre production?  My understanding is that they were almost instantly a cash cow.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2049 on: April 16, 2018, 10:18:35 PM »
Honestly though the idea that anything commercially minded can't have much ambition to it as pushed by the likes of RLM and Stuckman is I think what leads to films like The Force Awakens.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2050 on: April 16, 2018, 11:44:02 PM »
How are RLM pushing that idea?

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2051 on: April 17, 2018, 12:18:02 AM »
How are RLM pushing that idea?

It does seem like a strange statement to make.  Especially when they've gone to great lengths to openly mock Disney's reliance on people's nostalgia for the original trilogy...

"AT-ATs!"
"I clapped.  I clapped when I saw it!"
"The Death Star!"
"I'm gonna cum!"

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2052 on: April 17, 2018, 12:35:32 AM »
Their attitude towards the subsequent films is strange after they went so easy on The Force Awakens, which relied heavily on nostalgia.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2053 on: April 17, 2018, 12:40:12 AM »
Their attitude towards the subsequent films is strange after they went so easy on The Force Awakens, which relied heavily on nostalgia.

That's exactly what it is - to spare their blushes after praising The Force Awakens they've subsequently gone the other way.

They are also deeply disingenuous. It's rich of them to mock over enthusiastic youtube geeks when their Youtube career has been built on a foundation of videos obsessing over every Star Wars and Star Trek film.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2054 on: April 17, 2018, 01:01:01 AM »
But they still went easy on TFA in the Plinkett review, which was after Rogue One.

That aside, I don't think its hypocritical of them to mock other reviewers for being over enthusiastic. They built their reputation on ripping into the Star Wars/Trek films and their reviews of all the Marvel films have been pretty fair and balanced.

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2055 on: April 17, 2018, 01:33:33 AM »
...I don't think its hypocritical of them to mock other reviewers for being over enthusiastic. They built their reputation on ripping into the Star Wars/Trek films and their reviews of all the Marvel films have been pretty fair and balanced.

Yep.  I've got to agree with you here.  I don't think that they're disingenuous or hypocritical, even if I don't always agree with their opinions on certain movies (though it must be said that my tastes are more aligned with Jay's own tastes, than with Mike's).  Their Nerd Crew videos are a spot on piss take of a certain kind of YouTube reviewing and hype culture that exists.  It's not a style which they themselves are a part of and they clearly have disdain towards it.  They're film geeks, sure (as am I) but they're not hopeless, corporately apologetic fanboys.

Their attitude towards the subsequent films is strange after they went so easy on The Force Awakens, which relied heavily on nostalgia.
...they still went easy on TFA in the Plinkett review, which was after Rogue One.

I did find that puzzling too but I don't doubt their sincerity.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2056 on: April 17, 2018, 04:42:28 AM »
That's exactly what it is - to spare their blushes after praising The Force Awakens they've subsequently gone the other way.

They are also deeply disingenuous. It's rich of them to mock over enthusiastic youtube geeks when their Youtube career has been built on a foundation of videos obsessing over every Star Wars and Star Trek film.

The problem is I'd say that The Force Awakens was very much the kind of film they'd been pushing for with there breakdowns of the prequels and comments of things like Abrams original Trek film, they couldn't very well turn around and mock it for that, even moreso Stuckman.

Rogue One by comparison was something that didn't follow such a formula so made for a natural target for the same people, often with disingenuous criticism of things like nostalgia they'd been happy with in more extreme forms in TFA.

momatt

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2057 on: April 17, 2018, 09:58:41 AM »
I watched The Last Jedi for the second time earlier today
You've only seen it twice?!

I'd assumed you'd have gone to the cinema to fuel your hatred at least... 6 times.

I don't think that I'll bother watching the movie for a third time.  Simply put, it's just not a good movie, in my opinion.
I think you may have mentioned this in passing.



And the other three aren't true
Unless I'm missing something I'm pretty sure the prequels and sequel trilogies are different things!
It's true that the prequels aren't the sequels. The two words are spelled differently.
Ooooh, I was gonna say this.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:12:57 AM by momatt »

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2058 on: April 17, 2018, 02:39:40 PM »
Unless I'm missing something I'm pretty sure the prequels and sequel trilogies are different things!Ooooh, I was gonna say this.

It was the idea that the main reason people liked it was because it wasn't the prequels that I baulked at


momatt

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2059 on: April 17, 2018, 02:58:16 PM »
It was the idea that the main reason people liked it was because it wasn't the prequels that I baulked at

Yeah, I know what you meant really.  I was just being a cock.

The three trilogies are all quite different, made by different teams of people at different periods in time.  No huge surprise really.
I think fans in general (if there is such a thing) are coming around to the idea that the prequel and sequels trilogies are both bad in different ways.

I still find them all great fun to watch though.  Even Episode I!

Dr Rock

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2060 on: April 17, 2018, 03:15:52 PM »
This isn't going to be a trilogy sequel. It's Episode IX. Then you'll get Episode X, which will just follow the story, such as it is, onward. And so on until everyone gets sick of it (possibly as soon as Solo or Episode IX).

Kelvin

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2061 on: April 17, 2018, 03:31:50 PM »
This isn't going to be a trilogy sequel. It's Episode IX. Then you'll get Episode X, which will just follow the story, such as it is, onward. And so on until everyone gets sick of it (possibly as soon as Solo or Episode IX).

I don't think that's what will happen. I think they've already said that after Episode 9, they plan to put the mainline story on hiatus for a bit - although that's likely to be a few years at most. They'll focus more on the spinoffs, then start a new trilogy in 5 or so years, I reckon. So yes, it's going to become more regular, and more continuous, but also with a discernible end point for this particular trilogy. 

momatt

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2062 on: April 17, 2018, 04:25:26 PM »
Oh fuck, really?  So after episode 9, they're just going to have a rest?  Then get back with the same story?
I find that quite depressing.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2063 on: April 17, 2018, 04:46:07 PM »
I don't think they have said specifically that they will continue beyond IX. With Johnson in charge of a new trilogy away from the main story I wouldn't be surprised if they knocked the main story on the head. I think even LucasFilm/Disney know when they are in danger of overkill

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2064 on: April 17, 2018, 05:05:35 PM »
Oh fuck, really?  So after episode 9, they're just going to have a rest?  Then get back with the same story?
I find that quite depressing.

They better not do that.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2065 on: April 17, 2018, 06:32:40 PM »
Maybe they will reboot a New Hope

Dr Rock

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2066 on: April 17, 2018, 07:36:13 PM »
Find me anyone from Lucasfilm/Disney referring to these movies as part of a trilogy.

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2067 on: April 17, 2018, 07:44:46 PM »
You've only seen it twice?!

I'd assumed you'd have gone to the cinema to fuel your hatred at least... 6 times.

I'm really not that fussed.  I only watched The Last Jedi for a second time because my mate wanted to watch his DVD when I was around at his place.  My interest in the Star Wars series is as casual as you can get.  I was a massive fan of the series as a child (specifically, the original trilogy because that's all that there was at the time) but as an adult, I've kind of outgrown the series.

However, as is evident, I do enjoy tearing into a shitty movie/TV show or ten.  I've only watched Derek the one time but I still enjoy harping on about how terrible it is.  I'm a cynical bugger.

Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2068 on: April 17, 2018, 07:45:30 PM »
Find me anyone from Lucasfilm/Disney referring to these movies as part of a trilogy.

I'd agree such direct talk has been notably absent although this would also be the natural assumption. It could maybe be a case that Disney is unsure what they want to do long term and is lookin at reception of the films before deciding.

The "lol Nerd!" tone of this thread to me really highlights part of the problem as well, these are basically films bending over backwards to make sure they can't be accused of taking themselves too seriously, constantly undercutting their own setting/drama.

Marvel has perfected that style rather more successfully creating a setting that itself is naturally larger than life but with Starwars it just feels like the films are shooting themselves in the foot to play to such sensibilities.

momatt

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2069 on: April 18, 2018, 11:04:12 AM »
I'm really not that fussed.
It doesn't seem that way!

However, as is evident, I do enjoy tearing into a shitty movie/TV show or ten.  I've only watched Derek the one time but I still enjoy harping on about how terrible it is.  I'm a cynical bugger.
Ah, now it makes sense  You have to see things a few times to properly absorb them I find.  But initial responses aren't usually wrong.