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Thor: Ragnarok

Started by Swoz_MK, April 10, 2017, 02:38:39 PM

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Obel

That was a fun trailer, I reckon I'll watch this. Thor is better when it's light hearted and kinda silly.

greenman

Personally I would say the reverse, the first one worked quite well by playing things a bit straighter if rather camp, the second suffered from the silliness of a lot of the earth material with the professor. This looks quite different to either of those more inline with Guardians of the Galaxy.

Glebe

I'm really slacking with the movie news lately! Anyway, that is indeed quite a fun trailer. And he finally has a helmet!

mothman

I'm looking forward to this too. Thor and Hulk are probably my favourites of the on-screen Avengers, and I like thje way Hemsworth and Ruffalo play them.

Stoneage Dinosaurs

Thought the second one was balls, but this one looks pretty cool. Plus it's apparently directed by Taika Waititi who done What We Do In The Shadows and Flight Of The Conchords and a bunch of other stuff that is good

mothman

Never actually seen the first one, and in the second I just couldn't get past the fact Malekith looked oddly like Eddie Marsan.

Altho, Thor with thyort hair lookth like:


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I liked the second one overall, but turning Thor all grim and brooding made him rather dull. Hopefully this one has him act a bit more like in the first film.

Blumf

They certainly learned their lesson from Guardians of the Galaxy; more colourful space fun and a classic pop/rock track.

Strangely, in this period of economic non-recovery, people don't want drab grey grim-dark films. Isn't that right, DC?

biggytitbo

Thor would be better if he was played by a King Kong.

Deanjam

Thor and Hulk were great together in the Avengers films, so looking forward to this.

Glebe

Quote from: biggytitbo on April 10, 2017, 09:06:16 PM
Thor would be better if he was played by a King Kong.

Which one? Oh no, I've accidentally kicked off the multiple Kongs debacle again!

Mister Six

It looks fun, and for all the talk about showing the whole movie I'm still not clear on how these pieces fit together, how it's going to get there,[nb]OK presumably nasty bird twats Asgard, has a scrap with Thor on Earth, strands him on the alien planet and then he gets in a gladiator fight with Hulk, who was kidnapped after Avengers 2[/NB] or where it goes afterward. My guess is the trailer only has the first 40 mins or so of the film.

Been looking forward to this ever since I heard it was a Thor/Hulk team-up. That trailer isn't disappointing - although the 80s vibe seems a bit contrived and Guardians-aping.

greenman

Quote from: Blumf on April 10, 2017, 07:42:08 PM
They certainly learned their lesson from Guardians of the Galaxy; more colourful space fun and a classic pop/rock track.

Strangely, in this period of economic non-recovery, people don't want drab grey grim-dark films. Isn't that right, DC?

At £10 a ticket the cinema probably isn't that equitable an entertainment venue these days though.

mothman

I wonder whether the opening sequence with Thor in chains might not be in the final film? It's hard to see when it fits in Mr. 6's narrative above. Plus there's the whole speaking direct to camera thing. Unless they're now going to have Thor as the MCU's equivalent of Deadpool, breaking the fourth wall. Which would be rubbish. OK, they had Tony Stark appear to do it in Iron Man 3, only to reveal at the end he was talking to Bruce Banner. And I could stand to see a running joke where people confide in Banner despite his lack of interest, failure to pay attention, and repeated protestations he's not that kind of doctor. I don't see how they can go from "Thor in chains suspended over a fiery pit" to that, however.

Mister Six

Quote from: mothman on April 11, 2017, 09:50:03 AM
I wonder whether the opening sequence with Thor in chains might not be in the final film? It's hard to see when it fits in Mr. 6's narrative above. Plus there's the whole speaking direct to camera thing.

He doesn't actually speak to camera though. It's just a voiceover. I wouldn't like Deckard in Blade Runner to Deadpool, for example.

We also don't know that it will be used on the chain scene - it could be used on any other scene in the film, but have been put on there for the trailer because it's a more arresting image.

Also I can't remember the exact wording or how it sounds, but it could also be in-universe dialogue from Thor to Banner while they're in cells after their gladiator fight or something. That's more of a stretch though.

I suspect the chain will come after the jawas, when he's being held before the gladiator battle.

Obel

Quote from: greenman on April 10, 2017, 04:04:29 PM
Personally I would say the reverse, the first one worked quite well by playing things a bit straighter if rather camp, the second suffered from the silliness of a lot of the earth material with the professor. This looks quite different to either of those more inline with Guardians of the Galaxy.

Actually that's a good point. I didn't like the second one much either... Still, this looks the right kind of light hearted.

Spiteface

Quote from: Blumf on April 10, 2017, 07:42:08 PM
They certainly learned their lesson from Guardians of the Galaxy; more colourful space fun and a classic pop/rock track.

That's the part that fills me with dread. Guardians of the Galaxy was a mediocre-at-best film that somehow managed to convince people it was great. And the sequel is more of the same but with toy-shilling in the mix (no one can fucking tell me Baby Groot isn't purely for merchandising).

Still, I like what I'm seeing of this new Thor.  Does he not have any memorable villains other than Loki, though? I'm not familiar with comic Thor.

kidsick5000

Quote from: Blumf on April 10, 2017, 07:42:08 PM
They certainly learned their lesson from Guardians of the Galaxy; more colourful space fun and a classic pop/rock track.

Strangely, in this period of economic non-recovery, people don't want drab grey grim-dark films. Isn't that right, DC?

We were discussing how DC must feel watching such a well-crafted trailer and fun trailer.
Imagine them seeing Thor, looking back at their itinerary for the next few years and feeling like someone who bought a warehouse full of flared jeans just as the 80s took hold.
They're locked in and can't escape.
The custodian of a mountain of sludge, wondering what went wrong as kids are dancing past waving Marvel balloons

Kelvin

Quote from: kidsick5000 on April 12, 2017, 04:37:31 PM
We were discussing how DC must feel watching such a well-crafted trailer and fun trailer.

Eh? DC have consistently had amazing trailers. The only one which didn't recieve widespread acclaim was Justice League. The others, from Man of Steel to Suicide Squad, have all promised far more than the films actually delivered. 

QuoteImagine them seeing Thor, looking back at their itinerary for the next few years and feeling like someone who bought a warehouse full of flared jeans just as the 80s took hold.
They're locked in and can't escape.
The custodian of a mountain of sludge, wondering what went wrong as kids are dancing past waving Marvel balloons

I also don't buy that the "tone" or look of these films has turned post-crash audiences off in significant numbers. Not least because all of their films have been hugely successful. The problem that Warner Bros have is that their films have consistently been mediocre (at best), thoroughly joyless and badly made. If their films were great, audiences would be lapping up their grim dark universe. What's frustrating is that Warner's are likely to change the superficial aesthetics without fixing the fundamental story-telling and character issues their films have.

Mister Six

They've only been hugely successful in conventional terms though. DC doesn't just want to make double (or triple) the budget - it wants to make a billion per movie, and have the kind of eager clamouring that the Iron Man and Avengers films provoke.

BvS getting $800 mil, or whatever it was, in the same year that Cap 3 made over a billion was a slap in the face with a dead fish. That it was surrounded by a near-palpable stink of disappointment didn't help. Neither did Deadpool, with its poxy $75 mil budget - absolutely nothing in Hollywood terms - making almost as much as BvS. Suicide Squad did well considering the lack of a known brand but also got fucking slammed by critics and audiences.

DC is desperately trying to course-correct - note that they've hired nerd fave Joss 'The Avengers' Whedon to helm the Batgirl movie, which will likely draw from the chipper Cameron Stewart comics - but WW and (IIRC)  Justice League were already too far down the line to do too much about.

By the time they're making something more palpably 'Marvel,' the actual Marvel will have another few billion under its belt.

Mister Six

The other problem is that they've basically shot their load in terms of brand recognition. Batman and Superman are the two most iconic superheroes in the world, with decades of films behind them. Wonder Woman has a bit of that but is basically known for a 70s TV show and girls' pyjamas. And her film looks like a sour version of Captain America 1.

Everything after that depends on how well people take to Justice League, which itself was relying heavily on people to take to Batman vs Superman.

But Batman vs Superman met muted reactions, and Justice League is basically "What if Batman vs Superman, but too much?" They're desperately trying to figure out how to sell fucking Cyborg while the third serving of Marvel's most middling franchise is lighting up the web.

You'd best believe they'll be feeling gloomy in DC right now.

Kelvin

Quote from: Mister Six on April 13, 2017, 12:59:15 PM
They've only been hugely successful in conventional terms though. DC doesn't just want to make double (or triple) the budget - it wants to make a billion per movie, and have the kind of eager clamouring that the Iron Man and Avengers films provoke.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Although I think Suicide Squad really did do well considering the terrible reviews. BvS definitely came in way under their expectations. 

Quote from: Mister Six on April 13, 2017, 01:19:54 PM
The other problem is that they've basically shot their load in terms of brand recognition. Batman and Superman are the two most iconic superheroes in the world, with decades of films behind them. Wonder Woman has a bit of that but is basically known for a 70s TV show and girls' pyjamas. And her film looks like a sour version of Captain America 1

I posted a link in the WW thread that the tracking for WW is lower than expected, too. I think people - myself included - have stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt after so many mediocre/bad films.

QuoteYou'd best believe they'll be feeling gloomy in DC right now.

Obviously they are. And deservedly so. My point was explicitly about trailers. I was pointing out that DC have always generated huge buzz and excitement with their trailers. It's the films themselves that have consistently disappointed audiences and led them to their current position, not a failure to market them. 

SavageHedgehog

Quote from: Mister Six on April 13, 2017, 01:19:54 PM
The other problem is that they've basically shot their load in terms of brand recognition. Batman and Superman are the two most iconic superheroes in the world, with decades of films behind them. Wonder Woman has a bit of that but is basically known for a 70s TV show and girls' pyjamas. And her film looks like a sour version of Captain America 1.

Maybe, but before 2008 the most well-known Marvel Characters [nb]Discounting those who had a brief dalliance with fame via high-profile movies but ephemeral films, e.g. Daredevil, Ghost Rider[/nb] were Spider-Man (not MCU until very recently), Hulk (two slightly underperforming Solo films), the X-Men (not MCU), the Fantastic Four (not MCU and with a "troubled" on-screen live action history) and then I would say Captain America as a distant fifth. Thor was most famous as a gag in Adventures in Babysitting, and in relative terms *no one* had heard of Iron Man (certainly wasn't as famous as The Flash), let alone the Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man and Dr. Strange (and Deadpool for that matter). I'm not sure pre-existing recognition is the biggest factor these days, beyond recognition of the MCU itself as a brand. In theory, there is no reason why a really good Green Lantern or Cyborg film couldn't be huge.

Mister Six

Yeah and that would be fine if they were following the Marvel method of building up interest in lesser-known characters slowly, then leading up to big cross-over shenanigans.

Instead they are trying to do it the other way around - telling us we should care about Aquaman and Cyborg and The Flash because they're mates with Batman and Superman. But nobody is hyped about either of those characters, and the franchise feels like it's dribbling away into nothing rather than building to a crescendo.

SavageHedgehog

Fair point, does seem that's the way it's gone/going.

Cards on the table; as a very, very irregular comics reader I have a 90s-indoctrinated preference for the DC characters over most of the Marvel lot, and while none of them have been great movies, none of the DCEU movies has flat-out bored me the way a number of the MCU (Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Captain America 2, there might be a pattern here) films have with what I perceive to be a very cookie-cutter approach. But even I'm not excited at the prospect of Cyborg or The Flash: Not the Series: Not that Other Series Either.

But at least Aquaman has Dolph.

SteveDave

Quote from: SavageHedgehog on April 13, 2017, 02:47:18 PM
Thor was most famous as a gag in Adventures in Babysitting,

Played by Vincent D'onofrio in a bad wig.

Mister Six

Quote from: SavageHedgehog on April 13, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
Cards on the table; as a very, very irregular comics reader I have a 90s-indoctrinated preference for the DC characters over most of the Marvel lot, and while none of them have been great movies, none of the DCEU movies has flat-out bored me the way a number of the MCU (Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Captain America 2, there might be a pattern here) films have with what I perceive to be a very cookie-cutter approach.

I much prefer the DC comic universe too, having got into comics via Vertigo in the early 2000s. But I'll admit considerable schadenfreude at how badly DC's hubris is biting them on the arse with this botched film universe.

(Just fucking hire Grant Morrison​! Jesus!)

I'm also with you on the "Cookie cutter" approach - though I'd argue there's been more thematic, visual and tonal variation than they get credit for, Marvel obviously isn't going to stray too far from what works, and I do wish they would allow for one movie per "phase" where someone like Edgar Wright can just let rip and have fun.

That said, I would much rather have a competent, fun but underwhelming film like Dr Strange than an absolute fucking catastrophe like Suicide Squad (even if the latter is arguably more "interesting").

Glebe

Quote from: Kelvin on April 13, 2017, 02:07:32 PMYeah, I don't disagree with that. Although I think Suicide Squad really did do well considering the terrible reviews. BvS definitely came in way under their expectations.

Suicide Squad had the potential to be really good, but turned out to be absolute shit. But yeah, still and all, made a fucking killing at the box office and even won an Oscar. I actually liked a lot of the Batman stuff in BvS, although granted, it was total mess overall.

DC really need to go back to the drawing board after their current phase of movies. Marvel have spent pretty much a decade now building their modern movie universe, while DC are scrabbling to catch up.

Kelvin

All the latest news stories seem to suggest that Warner's new plan is to effectively produce a shared Batman universe, with films for Batman villains (Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy), Batgirl, Nightwing, and Batman all announced.

Again, this spectacularly misses the point. Audiences aren't turning on the DC universe because of the characters not being popular enough. They're turning on the universe because of how badly made the movies are. And badly made Batman movies will just harm that "brand", too.