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[NoSleep]

Perhaps it's that stretch out from the initial major scale to its minor 6th as the root, to imply a heptatonia secunda-type scale which suggests a mysterious sound immediately (try them out): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptatonic_scale#Heptatonia_secunda.

A typical heptatonia secunda scale: A, B, C#, D, E, F, G

Note how, on the Star Trek Voyager theme, at the point you mentioned, the melody plays a diminished scale run as well (another instantly mysterious scale).

A diminished scale C#, D, E, F, G, G#, A#, B

These kind of scales are normally used for fairly quick transitions between more conventional scales, but dwelling on them you find a more mysterious/ambiguous kind of music; like you're halfway between worlds.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Here's an example of a recent trope which helps create a piece of narrative: Why does an A flat major chord (or even E flat) feel so much like a 'space' chord (in the sense of a sci-fi films) when it comes in the middle of some C major harmony? It's *seems like* a fairly obvious example of musical convention that has stuck, precisely because of its otherness.

Funny that you call it a 'space' chord, although it does sound like a giant leap. John Coltrane's 'Giant Steps' was written with this major third key change in mind. He split the octave in 3 and wrote the changes around each tonality. Taking your example in C, the other two chords would be Ab major and E major. He then used II/V's to sequence into each new key.

This 'space' chord sound might be better explained with reference to negative harmony. The genius that is Jacob Collier explains a bit here, with some helpful overdubs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnBr070vcNE

[pancreas]

This 'space' chord sound might be better explained with reference to negative harmony. The genius that is Jacob Collier explains a bit here, with some helpful overdubs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnBr070vcNE

Wow. He's impressive.

[Howj Begg]

If you're listening to a live concert on the radio, how is it possible to turn up the volume of the music louder than that at which it is being played?

[Twit 2]

If you're listening to a live concert on the radio, how is it possible to turn up the volume of the music louder than that at which it is being played?

You can't. The musicians know you're doing it and move closer.

Couple of things to bear in mind about origins of music:

Pentatonic flute type things were in use well over 50,000 years ago (can't remember the exact dates but discussed in Cave of Forgotten Dreams, I think).

One theory (mentioned in 'Sapiens') is that music arose from early hominids processing food with tools where a regular rhythm made it easier and more efficient to break down seeds/grain etc.

Every person with a passing interest in this stuff MUST read How Musical is Man? by John Blacking. It's maybe the best book on music I have ever read, and I got as far as a masters in musicology so I don't say that lightly.

Listen to Messiaen's Vingt Regards (Aimard recording) cos it's good. My favourite Messiaen piece is Oiseaux Exotique (used to be a good performance on YouTube with Aimard/Boulez...incidentally I love Boulez's disparaging remark about the Turangalila being 'brothel music')

[dog]

EDIT: Ugh. Sorry.

[Ferris]

What if ghoti really spelled fish?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti

One of my earliest memories is some cunt supply teacher writing it on the board and getting one over on a load of primary school kids by asking them to pronounce it. His smug grin as he outwitted some children by stealing an old trick and relying on the fact that they were 6 and therefore unable to see through his ill-begotten cunning still irks me.

Still, he's probably dead now. And even at the time, I thought he was a cunt.

(Oh and by the way, Mr. Boughton - it's about context, you utter cretin. That doesn't spell fish, because that's not how language works. "Oh isn't it funny how letters have different pronunciations sometimes" no not really, it's the same reason I don't wear shoes in the bath or eat a jalfrezi on the streetcar - the context and positioning of these normal things in relation to other interdependent actors in the language is what gives them their meaning. Strip them of that, and the meaning is removed with them. Even as a 6 year old, I understood that. Dickhead).

[monkfromhavana]

I haven't been stoned in years, but I have a question.

Do you think birds enjoy it more when it's windy?

[Howj Begg]

In telecommunications and signal processing, frequency modulation transmits information over a carrier wave by varying the frequency. This technique is different from amplitude modulation which varies the amplitude, but keeps the frequency constant. This kind of modulation is used in broadcasting and other radio work.

Transplanting form the from thread. Excellent mansplanation.

[TheManOne]

I haven't been stoned in years, but I have a question.

Do you think birds enjoy it more when it's windy?

Good question. I suppose it depends where they want to go.

[Howj Begg]

I haven't been stoned in years, but I have a question.

Do you think birds enjoy it more when it's windy?

I think gliding birds do

[Howj Begg]

You can't. The musicians know you're doing it and move closer.

Couple of things to bear in mind about origins of music:

Pentatonic flute type things were in use well over 50,000 years ago (can't remember the exact dates but discussed in Cave of Forgotten Dreams, I think).

One theory (mentioned in 'Sapiens') is that music arose from early hominids processing food with tools where a regular rhythm made it easier and more efficient to break down seeds/grain etc.

Every person with a passing interest in this stuff MUST read How Musical is Man? by John Blacking. It's maybe the best book on music I have ever read, and I got as far as a masters in musicology so I don't say that lightly.

Listen to Messiaen's Vingt Regards (Aimard recording) cos it's good. My favourite Messiaen piece is Oiseaux Exotique (used to be a good performance on YouTube with Aimard/Boulez...incidentally I love Boulez's disparaging remark about the Turangalila being 'brothel music')

Thank you. Havent read Sapiens yet. That theory certainly sounds plausible, but I don't see why the regularity and rhythms of animal calls (eg grasshoppers leg-rubbing), and the imitation of that, wouldn't also play a large part in human musicality.

[monkfromhavana]

I think gliding birds do

That's what I thought. Must be a ballache trying to fly against the wind though, but if they're just having a play it must be great fun.

[Dex Sawash]

That's what I thought. Must be a ballache trying to fly against the wind though, but if they're just having a play it must be great fun.

Just means extra flight time to go any direction except dead downwind.

edit- unless windspeed exceeds the max flight speed (VNE) of the bird. In the case of very gusty/turbulent winds that could cause some uncomfortable jostling about though I suppose.

[NoSleep]

Thank you. Havent read Sapiens yet. That theory certainly sounds plausible, but I don't see why the regularity and rhythms of animal calls (eg grasshoppers leg-rubbing), and the imitation of that, wouldn't also play a large part in human musicality.

Our ability for pattern recognition would immediately notice any sign of life compared to ambient sounds (like the wind); even the footfall of animals. Their rhythm would be recognised with approval (pleasure) by a hunting party, so it isn't a big jump to recollecting those rhythms in some kind of music-making.

[MoonDust]

What are crows thinking about when they stand on rooftops for ages?

I thought this years ago when there was a crow on the opposite house's roof for about 20 minutes. Maybe it was looking for prey, but most of the time it kept its head still. Occasionally it'd caw.

What's it thinking? "This view's nice, think I'll perch here for a while", and it when it caws, is like "Hellooooo? Any other crows about? Bored here. Fancy a pint?" or whatever the crow equivalent of going for a pint is.

They're amongst the most intelligent of bird species. There must be something ticking away in their brains when they're seemingly doing nothing.

[touchingcloth]

That's the problem with evolutionary psychology - it's hard to ever get to a conclusive answer about why humans have any of the particular traits and interests they do, so we just end up with a load of just-so stories. Not that it's not interesting to speculate, but we don't even really know why birds perform a dawn chorus so the chances of working out what first drove humans to make music are probably slim. It seems like one of those things like language where there was no one thing which caused us to start speaking, and no one biological trait that allowed us to.

EDIT: That was in response to the talk about music, but coincidentally it's half relevant to the post MoonDust made as I was (slowly) typing.

[Zetetic]

They're amongst the most intelligent of bird species. There must be something ticking away in their brains when they're seemingly doing nothing.

I'm not sure this is true of humans.

[monkfromhavana]

Why don't chippies do fish fingers?

[Chairman Bodog]

The same reason fishies won't do chip fingers. It's a hassle to get round legal.

[Howj Begg]

It's shellfish safety gone mad.

[momatt]

Why don't chippies do fish fingers?

Because fish have fins, not fingers.

[Shit Good Nose]

Why don't chippies do fish fingers?

I know of three reasonably local to me that do them...

Granted, one of them does it all posh and calls them "cod bites" (you can choose from battered or panko breaded), but they are fish fingers.  In the other two they're part of the kiddies menu, and I swear one of them just cooks up Birdseye/supermarket ones.  But still fish fingers.

I hope you're not stoned when you read this, as I don't want you to go throwing yourself of a roof with some cow because of it.

[monkfromhavana]

I've never seen it anywhere, but then again, being the gluttonous 39- year old bastard that I am, I never look at the kid's menu.

Straight to the roe and chips.

[monkfromhavana]

Do you think it's possible to blend up a drink that contains everything your body needs, neck it, then not have to eat all day?

[JesusAndYourBush]

Do you think it's possible to blend up a drink that contains everything your body needs, neck it, then not have to eat all day?

Possibly, yes, but you'd still need to poo if that's what you were thinking?  Imagine the perfect food containing everything you needed and nothing more, so you'd never need to poo!  The brand name would be "No more poo!".  It's impossible though because some of what you excrete consists of discarded cells from the intestine wall, and old red blood cells*, probably other stuff too.  You'd also have to get used to your stomach rumbling because of the lack of bulk, and that'd probably be accompanied with a hungry feeling regardless of you having had some space-age astronaut food.


* That's what make your poo brown.

[Howj Begg]

Do you think it's possible to blend up a drink that contains everything your body needs, neck it, then not have to eat all day?

This is the dream.

[monkfromhavana]

I wasn't thinking of not pooing. Just if it was possible to do it and remain healthy. Could your body process it all in one hit?

[Dr Syntax Head]

Imagine not having to poo. All of that time you could use for something fulfilling

[Johnny Yesno]

What are crows thinking about when they stand on rooftops for ages?

'Hurry up and die, other creature.'

Imagine not having to poo. All of that time you could use for something fulfilling

It's the very opposite of fulfilling. What's the antonym of that? Emptyemptying?