Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 10:22:17 PM

Login with username, password and session length

The Handmaid's Tale (New Hulu Mini-Series)

Started by Small Man Big Horse, April 27, 2017, 10:51:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Small Man Big Horse

Hulu have now released the first three episodes of their take on Margaret Atwood's novel, I've only seen the first so far but it seems like a very faithful adaptation. It's a suitably sterile and bland environment, livened up by Elizabeth Moss's rebellious lead and the flashbacks to the world before infertility struck the majority of women. I have some concerns about the casting (can't say I've ever been impressed with Joseph Fiennes) and whilst I really love the novel I'm not quite sure how they're going to stretch it out in to ten hours of television without making changes, otherwise it could be a real struggle to get through, but it's an affecting piece and I hope they can continue the quality shown in the first episode.

Puce Moment

I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a reception for this.

I largely agree with Horsey, but perhaps I enjoyed it more. In fact, I thought it was quite brilliant. Extremely dour, morose, proper dystopian horror, with some shocking scenes, and under the skin visions of a not so exaggerated future. In fact, I would say that it is the first time in my life that I have ever watched a dystopian SF narrative whilst thinking "shit, we're living in a dystopian SF narrative, aren't we?"

I had my reservations about this during the first 2-3mins, which is a bit action genre. But then it quickly settles into being as relentlessly depressing as fuck, much to my relief. It also appears to be heavily influenced my Malick, in a most disarming way. Lots of magic hour shots, shallow focus beauty, and breathy VO.

A+

Captain Yep

I love the film adaptation, and I watched the first episode of this, but I don't have the curiousity to watch any further (a reflection on my short attention span). I'd be interested to hear of any extra shades of metaphor or whatever, to persuade me to stick with it.

Interesting that you mention the shallow focus, Puce Moment, because I specifically didn't like that, but I did like the aquarium sequence.

hewantstolurkatad

Enjoying this so far, how many episodes are there in season one?

The director is the same woman that done Meadowland, which was really weirdly ignored considering it's (1) a recent film with 100% on RT and (2) by a woman director coming out at pretty much the exact same time loads of people were pledging to watch one female-directed film a week. Bit of a killer cast for me personally too (Olivia Wilde, Kevin Corrigan, Luke Wilson, Elisabeth Moss).

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Captain Yep on May 07, 2017, 06:22:51 PM
I love the film adaptation, and I watched the first episode of this, but I don't have the curiousity to watch any further (a reflection on my short attention span). I'd be interested to hear of any extra shades of metaphor or whatever, to persuade me to stick with it.

Interesting that you mention the shallow focus, Puce Moment, because I specifically didn't like that, but I did like the aquarium sequence.

I've still only watched the first episode, I really did enjoy it but it's so bleak I have to be in the right mood to watch it.

Interestingly it's already been renewed for a second season, which will presumably work as a sequel to the novel. I know Atwood's discussed writing such a thing for a long time now, and still plans too, so I wonder if they'll write it based on her ideas or just do their own thing.

Quote from: hewantstolurkatad on May 07, 2017, 06:35:58 PM
Enjoying this so far, how many episodes are there in season one?

There's to be ten in total.

Blue Jam

#5
I bumped this thread when the show started airing on Channel 4, but my post got eaten by the hacker, so here it is again: this is now on Channel 4, the first two episodes are on 4oD now, and I finally found myself in the right frame of mind to watch them last night.

I thought Elisabeth Moss seemed an excellent choice to play Offred, and she is- she's innocent-looking but also great at playing a character who starts out dejected but finds she has a bit of fight left in her. Ann Dowd is properly cold and sinister as Aunt Lydia too- the scene where the convicted rapist was beaten to death ("when I blow this whistle...") had a feel somewhere between a Nazi rally and a school sports day. Good cast all round.

The washed-out colours and slow pace makes it feel a bit dreamlike, like it's all just a nightmare everyone is hoping to wake up from. The brightly-coloured, noisy flashbacks to the time before contrast nicely- the obvious comparison is those pictures of Afghanistan in the 1970s, but the flashbacks capture that feeling of lost freedom really well.

I had some really inappropriate/bleakly amusing targeted ads though- maybe the fellas get different ones, but I got: Aptamil powdered baby milk, Femfresh (after the scene where Offred has a bath ahead of The Ceremony to ensure she is"clean" for The Commander), and some eye make-up remover where the ad showed a woman holding a cotton pad over her eye. 4oD may want to take a look at those algorithms...

Cerys

I just started watching this today, and I'm quite impressed so far.  It feels like a much more faithful adaptation than the film, which seemed to romanticise the state-sanctioned rape scenes.

And I, too, got Aptamil and Nivea.

Attila

I've been watching it on 4oD. Margaret Atwood has long been one of my favourite authors, so I'm glad to see one of her works getting a slower treatment than it might as a two hour movie (or as it was with a two hour film, as Cerys points out).

I can't get around the ads with my adblock on 4oD anymore, so I just take off the headphones and click to another screen -- there's four four-minute breaks, but couldn't tell you what they were...I tend to avoid commercial TV (I don't understand how anyone can watch TV in the US; when I stayed last with my non-tosser brother, we had a film on in the background, and it was more ads than film, felt like...)

Bad Ambassador

I can't help thinking they shot themselves in the foot by making a serious drama about a brutal theocracy and casting a Scientologist in the lead. It looks like they're not taking this seriously.

Small Man Big Horse

I'm up to episode 4 and enjoying it a great deal, even if it is the most depressing thing in the world right now. Or at least in the top 10. One thing which slightly confuses though is why don't they use artificial insemination? I know it's a weird christian cunty government in control but given that so few people are able to reproduce you'd think they'd want to increase the likelihood of pregnancy. And even if they're against such a thing for religious reasons, why do they fuck only once a month?

billtheburger

This is pretty exceptional TV, but because I'm watching it week-to-week I'm not becoming over saturated in the bleakness or blue/grey filter.
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on June 22, 2017, 10:52:11 PM
why do they fuck only once a month?
Rhythm method, innit?

SteveDave

We're up to episode 8. I believe we'll try and whack the rest in our eyes tonight.

I never knew the Elisabeth Moss was a Scientologist. Well...

The Masked Unit

Fuck me the colour grading on this is disgusting to the point where I can't  watch it.

Blue Jam

#13
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on June 22, 2017, 10:52:11 PMI'm up to episode 4 and enjoying it a great deal, even if it is the most depressing thing in the world right now. Or at least in the top 10. One thing which slightly confuses though is why don't they use artificial insemination? I know it's a weird christian cunty government in control but given that so few people are able to reproduce you'd think they'd want to increase the likelihood of pregnancy. And even if they're against such a thing for religious reasons, why do they fuck only once a month?

Some musings from me:

Presumably sex is only allowed once a month because that's when it's for procreation, at any other time it's for pleasure and therefor sinful. Also there's an element of leaving it up to God to decide if He wants a couple to be "blessed". I believe "The Ceremony" was based on the Bible story of Rachel and Leah, hence the full name of The Red Centres.

There's the "God giveth life, God taketh it away" thing- in some interpretations of Christianity assisted reproduction is considered "playing God" just as much as abortion is. I once saw a flyer for some sort of Catholic-friendly fertility treatment pinned up on a notice board at Paddy's Wigwam Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral- I have no idea what it involved, but naturally it was for married couples only. I also remember that "Catholic woman has IVF while atheist stepdaughter has abortion" storyline in Brookside which seemed to go on forever and ever (amen).

Of course, the Republic of Gilead treating fertility as a prized commodity is just a way of policing women's behaviour and controlling their bodies. If they really cared about the sanctity of human life and keeping the human race going they wouldn't execute so many people for being gay, for having performed abortions in the past, etc. In the book, healthy babies are referred to as "keepers" while ones with birth defects are called "shredders"-
we're never told what happens to the "shredders" but I think I can guess. That's where all that "God taketh it away" stuff goes out the window- it's the overlap in the Venn diagram of people who are pro-life and people who support the death penalty.

Gilead is also a batshit anti-science society. It's one that believes that only women can be "barren" while men are never at fault for a couple's failure to conceive (and "sterile" is a banned word), just like in the Bible. Note that all ante-natal screening for birth defects, gender etc is also banned, presumably because with abortion being illegal they don't see the point. Also that women giving birth get no pain relief, monitoring of vital signs etc, although Gilead's leaders seem to have no problem getting women into clean and sterile modern hospitals with drugs and anaesthesia when they want to cut away various parts of their bodies as punishment.

The whole thing is a system of punishing women for being women- the Handmaids for being sexual beings, and the Marthas and Wives for being unable to fulfil their purpose- it's a setup where they can't win. The really scary thing for me is that for a lot of men (and a few self-loathing women) today, the whole scenario must seem like their wildest fantasy.

Quote from: SteveDave on June 26, 2017, 02:17:30 PMI never knew the Elisabeth Moss was a Scientologist. Well...

Back to that point about women giving birth without pain relief- isn't that also expected of Scientologists? I remember reading something about how Katie Holmes was expected to give birth to Tom Cruise's child in complete silence, with no pain relief. Hmmmm...

Mr_Simnock

Load of miserable shit, watched most of first episode and thought 'so many better things to watch' and just switched off. A society like this would be facing collapse, if fertility was as big an issue as it's made out then it's game over even if women were treated like gods. Can you imagine the sanctions against the so called society form the rest of the world? They would barely be able to operate.

KennyMonster

I set this series to record on my set top box but now I've come to watch them it seems to have recorded a bunch of party political broadcasts by the DUP starring that woman from Mad Men instead.

Blue Jam

Quote from: Mr_Simnock on June 28, 2017, 10:23:52 PM
A society like this would be facing collapse... Can you imagine the sanctions against the so called society form the rest of the world? They would barely be able to operate.

I think the situation in Gilead is pretty much that, yes. We know Handmaids are in short supply, and that only Commanders are assigned them, while men lower down the society's pecking order have to make do without (such as Nick the driver). All this means that the action must be taking place around a small minority consisting of the most privileged men in society. We don't see "The Colonies" but there are hints that they are not just deprived or even uninhabitable, but also very large. We see that food is rationed, and that the privileged few get to eat well, but we're not told about the rest. "Better always means worse for some..." It's clear that Gilead isn't working, but religious and ideological extremists and power-crazed dictators have never let that put them off- see Zimbabwe and North Korea for proof.

I've seen Gilead compared to many societies- Iran, Afgahnistan, the US under Trump- but I have wondered if there are comparisions to be made with North Korea. Watching the show I feel like those tourists who get guided tours of the wealthiest bits of Pyongyang but are told nothing of the famine and deprivation beyond. In fact I think one of the future episodes features Commander Fred hosting some foreign diplomats, with Offred forced to tell them the Handmaids are all happy with their lot and I wonder if that's an allusion to Bad Korea which the book didn't make.

KennyMonster

On a more serious note, I am enjoying this, a good mix of 1984 style dystopian future mixed with political metaphors for today or what could be our near future.

Contrary to other comments here, I prefer it to most of the 'quality' dramas you tend to get on your Netflixes and the like these days. It probably helps that the story has an end so the creators know what the climax will be so they can work that back into the earlier episodes.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Blue Jam on June 27, 2017, 01:29:07 PM
Some musings from me:

Presumably sex is only allowed once a month because that's when it's for procreation, at any other time it's for pleasure and therefor sinful. Also there's an element of leaving it up to God to decide if He wants a couple to be "blessed". I believe "The Ceremony" was based on the Bible story of Rachel and Leah, hence the full name of The Red Centres.

There's the "God giveth life, God taketh it away" thing- in some interpretations of Christianity assisted reproduction is considered "playing God" just as much as abortion is. I once saw a flyer for some sort of Catholic-friendly fertility treatment pinned up on a notice board at Paddy's Wigwam Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral- I have no idea what it involved, but naturally it was for married couples only. I also remember that "Catholic woman has IVF while atheist stepdaughter has abortion" storyline in Brookside which seemed to go on forever and ever (amen).

Of course, the Republic of Gilead treating fertility as a prized commodity is just a way of policing women's behaviour and controlling their bodies. If they really cared about the sanctity of human life and keeping the human race going they wouldn't execute so many people for being gay, for having performed abortions in the past, etc. In the book, healthy babies are referred to as "keepers" while ones with birth defects are called "shredders"- we're never told what happens to the "shredders" but I think I can guess. That's where all that "God taketh it away" stuff goes out the window- it's the overlap in the Venn diagram of people who are pro-life and people who support the death penalty.

Gilead is also a batshit anti-science society. It's one that believes that only women can be "barren" while men are never at fault for a couple's failure to conceive (and "sterile" is a banned word), just like in the Bible. Note that all ante-natal screening for birth defects, gender etc is also banned, presumably because with abortion being illegal they don't see the point. Also that women giving birth get no pain relief, monitoring of vital signs etc, although Gilead's leaders seem to have no problem getting women into clean and sterile modern hospitals with drugs and anaesthesia when they want to cut away various parts of their bodies as punishment.

The whole thing is a system of punishing women for being women- the Handmaids for being sexual beings, and the Marthas and Wives for being unable to fulfil their purpose- it's a setup where they can't win. The really scary thing for me is that for a lot of men (and a few self-loathing women) today, the whole scenario must seem like their wildest fantasy.

Back to that point about women giving birth without pain relief- isn't that also expected of Scientologists? I remember reading something about how Katie Holmes was expected to give birth to Tom Cruise's child in complete silence, with no pain relief. Hmmmm...

That's really interesting stuff, thank you for that, I did read (and love) the book but it was a good couple of decades ago and I'd forgotten various aspects of it. I guess the mistake I made was to think that the government's plans weren't ultimately doomed to fail, whereas now it's pretty clear that they will eventually, even if it takes a disturbingly long time.

Blue Jam

Quote from: KennyMonster on June 29, 2017, 04:36:11 PM
It probably helps that the story has an end so the creators know what the climax will be so they can work that back into the earlier episodes.

Despite them fleshing out a few of the more minor characters, and adding some new ones, I'm still not sure how the producers are going to stretch a relatively short book out across two 10-episode series. I'm also wondering how they're going to handle the ambiguous ending in which Offred may or may not be pregnant, and Nick may or may not be with The Resistance. I guess they'll have to make that a bit less ambiguous- maybe Offred will end up hiding out with The Resistance in series 2.

I'm not sure how I feel about some of the extra detail- revealing Offred's birth name as June, and having June join in with Moira's escape attempt didn't feel right, but I did like Ofglen/Ofsteven nicking a car- that was a nice moment of hope with a Handmaid taking back control, and it was nicely tied up with the climax (AHAHAHAHA SEE WHAT I DID THERE?) of that particular episode.

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on June 29, 2017, 11:35:02 PM
I guess the mistake I made was to think that the government's plans weren't ultimately doomed to fail, whereas now it's pretty clear that they will eventually, even if it takes a disturbingly long time.

I think the book hints that no-one is really happy with the situation in Gilead, bar the most senior Sons of Jacob (and possibly the Aunts). The Wives take up loads of pointless hobbies because they're bored stiff through being able to work, and even the Commanders visit brothels and keep secret stashes of forbidden things from The Time Before.

Again, living in Bad Korea could be a blast, but only if you happened to be Kim Jong-un.

Attila

Quote from: Blue Jam on June 30, 2017, 02:57:25 PM


I think the book hints that no-one is really happy with the situation in Gilead, bar the most senior Sons of Jacob (and possibly the Aunts).

Also the real ending of the book where you learn the manuscript of the book is the subject of a conference a couple centuries in the future, where the US has more or less been reclaimed by Native Americans. And you learn that one of the historical debates is whether the whole Gilead thing really happened as Ofglen describes, &c.

I was poking around a book website the other day that was touting a new edition of The Handmaid's Tale in their Young Adult section...

Eight Taiwanese Teenagers

Surprised to see discussion of this drop off so much that this thread's not even on the first page of Picture Box.

Despite its bleakness, I've really enjoyed this first season.

I think the last episode is only being shown on channel 4 this evening, so will wait to see if anyone else has the same thoughts as me about it...

CaledonianGonzo

Superb, but a really tough watch.  It's riveting and near faultlessly crafted, but I'd be hard pressed to say I've actively enjoyed it. I dunno if I've ever felt such sustained dread for 10 solid hours. 

robotam

Thought this was really good. Everyone done a great job acting.

No way June's safe. Hopefully most of season 2 will be hour upon hour of all the leaders of Gilead getting brutally murdered in increasingly complex ways. After the shite they've done I doubt there's anyone alive that would watch that and not think "fair enough."

CaledonianGonzo

There's ample dramatic meat in the premise and characters for them to feel justified in continuing to tell the story after Atwood's conclusion.  If anything, now that they've done the hard yards of the world building and dispensed with the Scrabble games the "fun" can really begin.

MoonDust

Thought this was fantastic from start to finish. Gripping and frightening, as it's entirely plausible. I'd like to see more flashbacks to the revolution and how the current leaders of Giliad consolidated their power. Would also like to see more of the resistance struggles in places like Chicago it alludes to. I get the impression Giliad hasn't taken over 100% of the former USA, and places like Chicago are an ongoing war zone.

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on August 01, 2017, 07:48:31 AM
There's ample dramatic meat in the premise and characters for them to feel justified in continuing to tell the story after Atwood's conclusion.

I'm thinking of reading the book, but I gather from this post that season 1 covers all of the book then, and so season 2 is going to be an original "sequel" of sorts?

CaledonianGonzo

Similarly it's been years since I read it, but from memory this series has followed the basic throughline of what happens to Offred in "present day" Gilead pretty accurately, but has alteady substantially beefed up the flashback elements and expanded on the back stories / fates of the other characters.

Bad Ambassador

It's hard to take an Awful Warning about misogyny and theocratic oppression seriously when the lead actor is a Scientologist.

CaledonianGonzo

Delivering one of the all time great small screen performances.  *That* scene in the car in the final episode was a tour de force.

Blue Jam

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on August 01, 2017, 06:47:05 PM
*That* scene in the car in the final episode was a tour de force.

Oh yes, genuinely harrowing and it really made me feel angry for Offred. Yvonne Strahovski was incredibly chilling as the sociopathic Serena Joy too.

Only just caught up with the last two episodes, I've changed my mind and think that the extra bits not in the book very definitely add to the original story rather than detract from it. The backstory around Janine in particular- the Wife who had taken her baby going "She's so much better off without that horrid girl"- meaning the baby's mother, of course. Along with other things, that showed how in Gilead parenthood has become completely divorced from sex- sex is something only those shameful handmaids do, while the Commanders and Wives are parents. Just as a lot of societies today regard mothers as saintly, sexless beings, while women having sex for any reason other than procreation are evil (insert something clunky about The Virgin Mary here).

The same went for Commander Glen and his punishment for having recreational sex with his handmaid- I suspected that's why sex is only permitted during The Ceremony even though that reduces the chances of conceiving. Interesting that the harshest possible sentence for the adulterous man was loss of his (idle) hands, while for his mistress it was death by stoning- again, that must have been inspired by a number of real-life societies.

It says a lot about the performances that I also really felt for Janine (Madeline Brewer) when she was threatening to jump off the bridge, inwardly willing her to do it, not wanting to see how many more body parts she could have forcibly removed while still allowing her to function as an incubator. I was expecting to see her pregnant with no limbs, or still being kept as a functionally brain-dead handmaid- pregnant comatose women have been refused abortions or having their life support turned off before, that's another thing that wouldn't have been a far-fetched idea. I was surprised when she was eventually given a death sentence, after the "gender traitor" handmaid was spared death because she was still fertile.

I did like the handmaids' refusal to take part in the stoning though- repeating "sorry Aunt Lydia" with not an iota of sorrow the second time was a nice device, and it showed Offred enjoying a little bit of power and status as a pregnant handmaid. That was a rare uplifting moment.

Quote from: Mr_Simnock on June 28, 2017, 10:23:52 PM
A society like this would be facing collapse, if fertility was as big an issue as it's made out then it's game over even if women were treated like gods. Can you imagine the sanctions against the so called society form the rest of the world? They would barely be able to operate.

I liked the way that was handled with the visit from the Mexican ambassadors in an earlier episode, where it emerged that they wanted to strike up a trade deal... for handmaids, and that they were aware this would essentially be slave trade but didn't care because the ends (ending Mexico's population decrease) would justify the means. Again, you could compare that to real-life scenarios, from arms dealing to people-trafficking. There's plenty of scope for expanding the universe of the original book, far beyond the refugee centres in Canada.

I'm impressed with how much the the writers have managed to build on the original premise and add to it, I'm sure they will continue to do all that with series 2. It's been a tough watch but I'm looking forward to more.