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Roguelikes

Started by a peepee tipi, June 09, 2017, 09:09:00 PM

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a peepee tipi

My favorite has to be Tales of Maj Eyal, it differs from traditional roguelikes in many ways and is more streamlined with an emphasis on combat and skills. Compared to other roguelikes, it's more tactics-based as opposed to adapting to what you are given. Less running, makes recognizing when to do so a more subtle challenge. The game doesn't have much of a story and barely any dialogue, which is limited to "Go do this because this" and "Player character, I shall fuck you up", but the world building through the game's lore system is deeply engrossing and fantastic, even if some of the "tales" are too derivative. It's not so much experiencing a story as much as figuring out the state of the world and tracing back the history to how it came to be that way, how the various sentient species have warred, been displaced, intermingled. The community has had a substantial direct impact on the game's narrative and features too, which is awesome as only the best ideas get in by consensus and the constant player feedback results in frequent balance tweaks. I actually think the decision to split from "Middle-Earth" and create an original setting was decided via community poll.

So yeah, been on a Roguelike kick, anybody else play them? I love games like Isaac and FTL, but I mean your through and true, hardcore, fuck-you-up 'ems. Nethack and the like.

a peepee tipi

Bumping in light of all the retro talk lately and I need a safe space to cry in about my frequent and stupid deaths. Permadeath is nearly ubiquitous to the genre, though personally I don't think it's as defining a feature of the genre as it's commonly made about to be. But it makes them, appropriately and intentionally, feel like giant turn-based arcade games. They are also one of the hardest video game genres to master, inherently unforgiving. You're expected to learn almost entirely from your mistakes and procedural generation means there are no occasions where exactly replicating a strategy will work. Have you ever wanted to play an RPG where you're actually expected to regularly use your (often limited) consumables?

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup offers the closest to a proper arcade experience, I think. Good scoring system. Playing in-browser offers spectating too and the small, but active community is helpful.

In my experience, few gaming victories are as satisfying as beating a game as vast and brutal as something like NetHack on brain power alone. Or at least I imagine, I've never beaten it.

I'd be surprised if there isn't a single cunt here who's played Angband

Hangthebuggers

Funnily enough I've just been on a small roguelike binge this weekend. Nothing too in depth, more so a glance at various ones. .

Recently:

TOME (as you mentioned) easy to play, lots of options and builds - I didn't get too far, just juggling a few characters - My fave being a phase shifting rogue type who can stealth.

Caves of Qud - Great character builder. Again didn't get too far, but seemed engrossing - Interesting world. -  The steam version has a tileset I believe.

http://www.cavesofqud.com/

Prospector - Fucking great game. Seems really deep. Sci-fi element involving visiting planets, gathering riches, piracy, trade etc. Lots of things to do and different ship options and modifications etc. Lovely interface.

http://www.prospector.at/forum/about.php

Warsim: Realms of Astonia.  - In depth King simulator. Manage cities, armies, banks, visitors, merchants and trade routes. Fight neighboring hordes and perform raids. Diplomacy etc.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/659540/Warsim_The_Realm_of_Aslona/

Eversector: Only tried this once. Found it a bit clunky in regards to figuring out what I'm supposed to be doing - But this might improve with time (as it's only a year or so old in still in development). Hard to honestly comment since i've barely played it. But again this seems like a sci-fi faction thingie. Pirates, trade, etc.

https://boldorf.itch.io/eversector

Cogmind: Not played it yet - But it looks the business. Mech/robot building - Defeat enemies, steal parts, multiple weapon options, salvage and loot...

http://www.gridsagegames.com/cogmind/


And I guess you could consider Torchlight 2 on ELITE mode (perma-death) a semi-rogue-ish-like hack and slash game with an excellent loot system, character trees etc

Lemming

Loved the shit out of ADOM 2 even though I never got very far with it.

Doom Roguelike
is worth a try as well, if only for novelty value.

Not sure if it counts as a roguelike, but Kerkerkruip is a roguelike mixed with a ZORK-style text adventure, and it rocks.

a peepee tipi

DRL i've now played more than the original Doom, it's a perfect game for me. Incredible how well it translates. I finally won on UV the other night and am bracing for N, though it's a bit intimidating.

Quote from: Hangthebuggers on September 09, 2017, 04:17:39 PM
*great list*

Except for Warsim and EverSector, which I've yet to play, I've only just touched most of these but I really need to give Prospector a good go. Definitely going to go through these when I get the chance.

Cogmind really is a blast, one of my favorite classless roguelikes for the reasons you stated. Even the 7DRL version still holds up. The tileset and soundtrack for Qud are lovely. Hard to make games like these atmospheric so it's really something, the only other one that comes to mind as far as sound and look go is InfraArcana (Fantastic attempt at a survival horror roguelike based on the work of Lovecraft). I really like the world and lore/quest system too, feels like a better, if static, version of DF's Adventure Mode.

a peepee tipi

The Ground Gives Way

This is one of my favorites of recent, I've now got two wins and I'm confident enough that I think I could maintain a positive win rate, potentially even streak. It's a coffeebreak RL, average length of a successful run being around 2 hours. It's like Brogue in that there will never be a difference in your starting attributes. There are hundreds of items and your build is determined solely by what you find. You start off with your fists, which only do non-lethal damage but, since you use both, allows you to attack twice. However, non-lethal damage only knocks opponents out (so try not to knock anything out in a corridor!), and your best bet on replenishing your small HP pool is to rest. Resting replenishes your health and energy (used for things like identification and wearing your equipment), but wakes up every knocked out enemy throughout the whole dungeon. Weapons have a lot of variation - you could find a rapier, which stackingly decreases enemy hit chance by 10%, but only does 1 damage (and though it is lethal, it is still effectively half of what you can do with your fists). You could find a rusty weapon that comes with many drawbacks, but that at least gives you a source of lethal damage to switch to when your fists don't cut it. Or you could just find an enchanted greatsword on floor 1 and wreck the game from there. Maybe you find a powerful wand, but also some great armor and armor often reduces MP. Doesn't look too bad for ASCII as well, great UI considering, and only the arrow (cardinal direction only) and z/a/c keys are needed. Unique in a lot of ways.

ASFTSN

I love the few I've played, but I'm shit at them and have never finished one.  I've got a pointlessly obstinate stance on looking up tips and advice even though that's a big part of roguelike culture and there's no shame in it.  My favourites:

Brogue

For the simplicity and streamlined nature of it.  I also love the open, cavelike level maps that it generates.  Strangley beautiful ASCII too.

ADOM

I fall in and out of love with it, but for the stories it's generated, this might be one of the best games I've ever played, Roguelike or not.  Truly fascinating depth even though I've only ever played as a Wizard and haven't got very far despite sinking a lot of hours into it.  It's kept me up way past me bedtime on several occasions.

Doom:  The Roguelike

Using the original sounds, 'nuff said.

I've got Caves of Qud downloaded, fired it up a few times and love the theme and world, but for some reason it seems a bit too close to Dwarf Fortress "Everything's happening all the time" style and I always feel overwhelmed.  I'm sure it'll suck me in sooner or later.

ASFTSN

Any Roguelike Radio podcast listeners?  Possibly one of the nerdier things I've enjoyed online, and that's saying something.

a peepee tipi

Quote from: ASFTSN on September 29, 2017, 12:00:01 PM
Any Roguelike Radio podcast listeners?  Possibly one of the nerdier things I've enjoyed online, and that's saying something.
I've been meaning to check it out. I like what Darren Grey has to say, particularly about the Berlin Interpretation, but I've been putting it off because any dev/coding talk would go right over my head. How in-depth does it go on that front?

Have you tried playing Brogue at brogue.lumenstone.org? It can lag hard at times, but it's great for spectating. Since getting into DCSS, I've developed a preference for playing in-browser as there's a lot you can get out of being able to spectate, converse, and play all at once. It's an active way to learn about a given game without the punishment of education by death. There's a great site with a bunch of Angband variants out there too. Another plus is that these sites often stay updated with nightly builds for their games

ASFTSN

Quote from: a peepee tipi on September 29, 2017, 10:50:38 PM
I've been meaning to check it out. I like what Darren Grey has to say, particularly about the Berlin Interpretation, but I've been putting it off because any dev/coding talk would go right over my head. How in-depth does it go on that front?

Have you tried playing Brogue at brogue.lumenstone.org? It can lag hard at times, but it's great for spectating. Since getting into DCSS, I've developed a preference for playing in-browser as there's a lot you can get out of being able to spectate, converse, and play all at once. It's an active way to learn about a given game without the punishment of education by death. There's a great site with a bunch of Angband variants out there too. Another plus is that these sites often stay updated with nightly builds for their games

I am the sort of person that gets frustrated to the point of screaming when they can't get a wireless printer to work.  I know nothing about computers and coding and I've got a lot of hours out of that podcast - it's generally much more about the play experience behind the games and how they were designed with that in mind, and I think they're conscious of being quite welcoming to audiences that might be new to proper roguelikes so it never gets too coder-y.

Hmmm never played anything like this online, the solitary, immersive nature of them is part of the fun for me.  Maybe I'll look into giving Brogue a go on there though, thanks for the heads up!

a peepee tipi

Quote from: ASFTSN on September 29, 2017, 11:21:24 PM
I am the sort of person that gets frustrated to the point of screaming when they can't get a wireless printer to work.  I know nothing about computers and coding and I've got a lot of hours out of that podcast - it's generally much more about the play experience behind the games and how they were designed with that in mind, and I think they're conscious of being quite welcoming to audiences that might be new to proper roguelikes so it never gets too coder-y.

Hmmm never played anything like this online, the solitary, immersive nature of them is part of the fun for me.  Maybe I'll look into giving Brogue a go on there though, thanks for the heads up!
You're welcome! And that's really good to know about Roguelike Radio, thanks, gonna give it a listen

Chairman Bodog

I bought Darkest Dungeon for PS4 last week. Lovecraftian motifs with emphasis on sanity and traits. The combat is fun but each class has about 6 sticky abilities so the ultimate goal is to crawl each dungeon without letting your basehead squaddies succumb to breakdowns and diseases and make it back with enough treasure to upgrade your hamlet. There's a tavern and an abbey to wind their stress down but that means they'll skip out on the next battle. They can develop addictions and wolf down a pretty plethora of ailments from tinnitus to ennui.

It's a roguelike on the fringe. It's not swift and surly and nothing bites down on the head. Your characters get megapumped and skullfucked all the time though. Your level 6 plague doctor that you've been careful to keep clean will probably get socked from a deathblow or get his resolve tested from pry cracking a chest and dropping bread from a heart attack.

Really safe for a fruity stint but I don't know what the end goal is, really. Becomes a grind to get all the hamlet upgrades. The humour is on point, though. The dialogue is delightfully punchy and in keeping with the dark age theme.

a peepee tipi

Quote from: Chairman Bodog on October 06, 2017, 05:04:45 AM
I bought Darkest Dungeon for PS4 last week. Lovecraftian motifs with emphasis on sanity and traits. The combat is fun but each class has about 6 sticky abilities so the ultimate goal is to crawl each dungeon without letting your basehead squaddies succumb to breakdowns and diseases and make it back with enough treasure to upgrade your hamlet. There's a tavern and an abbey to wind their stress down but that means they'll skip out on the next battle. They can develop addictions and wolf down a pretty plethora of ailments from tinnitus to ennui.

It's a roguelike on the fringe. It's not swift and surly and nothing bites down on the head. Your characters get megapumped and skullfucked all the time though. Your level 6 plague doctor that you've been careful to keep clean will probably get socked from a deathblow or get his resolve tested from pry cracking a chest and dropping bread from a heart attack.

Really safe for a fruity stint but I don't know what the end goal is, really. Becomes a grind to get all the hamlet upgrades. The humour is on point, though. The dialogue is delightfully punchy and in keeping with the dark age theme.
Ah, I just picked this up yesterday! Not really a through and through roguelike, but it's been on my radar for a bit because of the reception it's been getting. Haven't actually given it a try yet, what you said about grinding is one of the more common complaints I've seen and that puts me off a bit, but everything else appeals. Having a good sense of humor is very reassuring though. Why is this such a difficult medium to pull that off with?

If you're ever itching for a more traditional experience, might I suggest Infra Arcana? It's set in the Cthulhu Mythos (enemies include various horrors and mi-gos, unique bosses include Dean Halsey and Major Clapham-Lee, Lovecraft's depiction of Nitokris, etc.) and features an emphasis on sanity and traits! What makes it so great is that it plays like a survival horror-roguelike and manages to be a satisfyingly intense experience while using fucking Oryx tiles. You don't gain XP from killing things, but by "discovering" things. Discovering a new item's function will grant you experience, as will discovering a new enemy. And since you get full experience and enemies have a much easier time fucking your shit up than the other way around, running is frequently the better option over combat. But, with each new discovery comes the shock of knowing such things exist, resulting in an increase in "insanity" which is also accrued per turn. It resets to 0 at each new floor, but any time you reach 100% insanity, your "overall" insanity increases as a separate percentage, with 100%, of course, being game-ending. Harder to beat than cancer

ASFTSN

Quote from: a peepee tipi on October 06, 2017, 06:43:00 AM
If you're ever itching for a more traditional experience, might I suggest Infra Arcana? It's set in the Cthulhu Mythos...

I've never seen this before, it looks fucking mint - Blood is one of my all-time favourite games and it's namechecked on that very page.  Just watched a few minutes of gameplay video, surprising how effective the message buffer using the 1st person is, "I hear rattling chains.  I chop the rat thing with my machete etc".  I'm going to have to give this a go if I have time to spare soon.

I've not played it and I'm only a middling Tolkien fan, but have you ever tried Sil?

a peepee tipi

Quote from: ASFTSN on October 06, 2017, 09:08:13 AM
I've never seen this before, it looks fucking mint - Blood is one of my all-time favourite games and it's namechecked on that very page.  Just watched a few minutes of gameplay video, surprising how effective the message buffer using the 1st person is, "I hear rattling chains.  I chop the rat thing with my machete etc".  I'm going to have to give this a go if I have time to spare soon.

I've not played it and I'm only a middling Tolkien fan, but have you ever tried Sil?
:)

I've not, but I understand it uses a similar discovery mechanic, correct? How is it?

ASFTSN

Not played it mate!

I just gave Infra Arcana a go for an hour or so - first impressions:  fuckin' mint.  So far among other things I have:

- Been strangled to death by some disembodied intestines after drinking from a fountain that put me into such a rage that I just had to keep moving towards them and kill them.

- Blasted a mummy into bits with dynamite after spraining my foot while kicking open its tomb, only to get surrounded and killed by worm masses that I didn't have the bullets do deal with.

- Been pinned to a wall and reduced to 1HP by a spike gun shot from a couple of dwarfy wankers in front of a grate.  I killed them by shooting through, but then each time I tried to use my medical bag (while still pinned to the wall) some black oozes kept coming through the gate.  I ran out of bullets and then bled to death somehow - I might have accidentally tried to move off of the spike.

and had a blast while doing so.  Excellent, sparse sounds and really chilly atmosphere too.  I love that the Cultists yell the same occult gobbldey-gook that they do in Blood.  Determined to keep playing this one totally blind for a while.  Thanks again for the tip off!

a peepee tipi

Quote from: ASFTSN on October 06, 2017, 10:06:01 PM
Not played it mate!
Ah, it's on the angband.live site, but I want to beat Angband first so I probably won't be touching Sil for another 20 years

QuoteI just gave Infra Arcana a go for an hour or so - first impressions:  fuckin' mint.  So far among other things I have:

- Been strangled to death by some disembodied intestines after drinking from a fountain that put me into such a rage that I just had to keep moving towards them and kill them.

- Blasted a mummy into bits with dynamite after spraining my foot while kicking open its tomb, only to get surrounded and killed by worm masses that I didn't have the bullets do deal with.

- Been pinned to a wall and reduced to 1HP by a spike gun shot from a couple of dwarfy wankers in front of a grate.  I killed them by shooting through, but then each time I tried to use my medical bag (while still pinned to the wall) some black oozes kept coming through the gate.  I ran out of bullets and then bled to death somehow - I might have accidentally tried to move off of the spike.

and had a blast while doing so.  Excellent, sparse sounds and really chilly atmosphere too.  I love that the Cultists yell the same occult gobbldey-gook that they do in Blood.  Determined to keep playing this one totally blind for a while.  Thanks again for the tip off!
Happy to share! It really is a fantastic game, I hope one day I'll do well enough to experience more than a fifth of it!

So I had bought Dungeons of Dredmor and its DLC on sale a couple of years ago, but hadn't touched it because I'd not heard great things about its interface. Finally gave it a go over the weekend. I didn't have any problems with the interface, only the controls. Lots of things that should have keybindings can only be done through clicking and the game can feel a bit like a slog, even with animations turned up. Other than that, really good game. Jokes are a bit hit and miss, but it has a bit of charm. It stays away from meme humor, which is huge for a "humorous" indie game and it was strangely satisfying to be wielding Chamberlain's The King in Yellow as a weapon while fighting an Aether Oddity unique named Major Tom. Playing extended on the hardest difficulty with small levels, I had a bit of trouble getting past Floor 5 at first but won without trouble yesterday. The basic melee and armor skills make you practically invincible already, but Battle Geology and Fungal Arts ensure that you never die. I was able to keep up a pretty brisk pace as well. I expected Dredmor to be like Morgoth, but no, it took roughly 3 minutes to bring him down. I was actually really disappointed, the endgame was incredibly easy but I expected a fight from Dredmor and wanted to win, so I skipped diggle hell altogether when I could have handled the superboss just as easily and gotten a "full" win. Oh well, I'll be moving on now

a peepee tipi

Just beat TOME on Insane/Roguelike. I finally fuckin did it. It only took me 5 goddamn years. I don't know what to say, don't even know what to do with myself anymore. Last fight took nearly 40 minutes. 5 fucking years of pushing through each difficulty and possibly thousands of deaths, it had me walled full stop many times and I finally fucking did it. Fuck. Fucking games.