Cricket 2017

[monolith]

I feel a little bit depressed listening to this, actually. It's like the promise that the first Test suggested has totally dissipated. It's not competitive enough. I don't see any quality at all in this batting line-up, in these conditions, at least. I hope the pitches offer less from now on and I'd like to see us up against the spin a bit more, and to see what Rashid has got to offer. If we were playing this Test in Mumbai, I expect it would be a total reversal. Hmm. Nothing novel here but just my feeling.

Part of me wanted India to win that first test as it would have been great to see a 1 wicket victory but also because I highly suspected that they would fade for the rest of the series.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

As I said above, combo of conditions and terrible selection of only two frontline seamers, losing the toss as well as the timings of the rain delays could hardly have fucked India over worse. They've been bad too, but I think we should wait and see what the Trent Bridge test is like before shitcanning them brutally.

[monolith]

As I said above, combo of conditions and terrible selection of only two frontline seamers, losing the toss as well as the timings of the rain delays could hardly have fucked India over worse. They've been bad too, but I think we should wait and see what the Trent Bridge test is like before shitcanning them brutally.

Just going on their two previous tours really. I don't think they've suddenly become a woeful side since they beat us and they are certainly better than the score in this test suggests but I can't see them coming back after this. Could be another 5-0.

[The Boston Crab]

Good on these two buggers for hanging about. We've not batted very well as a group but we've got more experience in these conditions and by RNG we're therefore a bit more likely to have someone who steps up. They've had nobody besides K. There definitely is a problem with Test cricket and home conditions. Not quite sure what can be done.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Two more down. We've lost over 130 overs of cricket to rain and are about to win with over a day to spare. India are just starting their 89th over of total batting in the match.

[The Boston Crab]

Feels less depressing now we've won. Delighted for Woakes and Anderson has been sensational.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Great to get the win, but India so bad and up against it with other factors not going for them, it's difficult to gauge our performance. I think our batting performance was good given the conditions, even if we were assisted by good weather and India dropping a seam bowler, while some of our swing bowling would have cleaned up most of the best batting lineups, but did India just make it look like that?

I should think swing will be on offer for Anderson and Woakes at Trent Bridge. Will the pitch need flattening to make a more even game of it? I'd be up for a game on a flatter wicket. 400 plays 400 kinda thing.

[iamcoop]

Great to get the win, but India so bad and up against it with other factors not going for them, it's difficult to gauge our performance. I think our batting performance was good given the conditions, even if we were assisted by good weather and India dropping a seam bowler, while some of our swing bowling would have cleaned up most of the best batting lineups, but did India just make it look like that?

I should think swing will be on offer for Anderson and Woakes at Trent Bridge. Will the pitch need flattening to make a more even game of it? I'd be up for a game on a flatter wicket. 400 plays 400 kinda thing.

No. You didn't see India leaving any green on last time around when they were putting 700 on.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Aye but I'd rather watch something that feels like a contest.

Interesting factoid: While Kohli has been captain India have never fielded the same team in consecutive matches.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

One side note is that due to cricket being such a dominant sport in India, the level of overanalysis is probably third only to American Football in the U.S or footy in the UK. Right now entire fortnights are being lost to the discussion of in what order they should place the Indian batsman when they collapse next and whether Kohli is intimidating the rest of the side by being half-decent and so should stand down for the good of the team.

The same pundits who on the eve of a test series in England predict confidently on every single occasion an India win.

[iamcoop]

I agree that something has to be done about the home advantage as it's become far too one sided now across the board. However, I'd argue to a degree that's it's as much a case of sides being piss poor at adapting to away conditions as much as it is pitch preparation. We all obviously want good pitches that offer an even contest between bat and ball but sides in India will inevitably play on dry turners and sides in Australia will play on flat roads. Our inability to bowl decent spin and grind out big totals killed us in India. India have suffered here because they're fucking useless at playing the moving ball. The lack of care for preserving the test match game by the numerous governing bodies in pursuit of white ball money has been the biggest contributor in in the home advantage slide as much as anything, as most teams simply can't be fucked to prepare properly so end up getting hammered because nobody can be arsed to grind out a mind numbing 128 off 400 to set up a proper five day game.

I realise I'm not saying anything a million people haven't heard before but I'd rather be the focus on teams preparing for and playing better test match cricket than pitches being prepared with the view in mind that everyone is shit at proper test cricket these days.

[monolith]

There's been very few teams who have excelled at home and away and that's what makes them exceptional teams that live long in the memory. Australia late 90s-2000s and West Indies of the 80s and early 90s immediately come to mind. Even they didn't win every series though.

England did pretty decent at the start of this decade, winning in Australia and India a couple of years apart, and they won in South Africa not long after.

But it's not the norm to win away from home. I like it that way as when you do win away (and it will happen again, it's not going to be like this forever) it's special.

I don't think it's anything new and it's not like the visiting team gets to play on a worse pitch than the home team, it's the same for both sides.

[The Boston Crab]

That's a fair point. That purple patch for England was pretty special and will live long in the memory. And equally, I had tremendous respect and fear for both the 80s Windies and Warne/Waugh/etc. era Aussies.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I want to see close exciting games so all of that, to go all Bishop Brennan, means absolutely nuthin ta me

[Andy147]

Just looking at the schedule the Australians had when they toured in 1977; before the first Test they'd played against 9 of the counties, and by the end of the summer they'd played against all 17 (plus the Minor Counties XI, the Combined Universities, the MCC, Ireland, a Rest of the World XI, and of course Lavinia, Duchess of Norfolk's XI). It's hardly surprising that teams used to be better acclimatised. (Admittedly, they still lost 3-0).

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

When you look at the workloads of all cricketers it seems amazing how much cricket they played. When you look at the record of Hedley Verity for instance, totally insane. I think of this era only Murali and Kumble come close, being fair Warne, McGrath and Walsh deserve a mention, Jimmy soon.

There would have been time to prepare if there hadn't been an ODI series to start with. Ultimately we should have played 4 tests against India and 3 against Pakistan, and played the ODI series after the test series.

Fixture congestion and burnout makes it inevitable touring sides get little time to adjust. My only suggestion would be for international players to play First Class cricket in other countries. Once they get picked for England they should already be well used to English conditions. Spend what little time you have practising on flat tracks, spinning surfaces, reverse swing, hard bouncy wickets.

[iamcoop]

Anyway, Jimmy Anderson. He'll become the most successful pace bowler in test cricket history this series, overtaking Glenn McGrath and he's also in for a shout of eventually overtaking Anil Kumble. Where do we think he stands in the pantheon of greats? Is he better than pidgeon?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I would be interested to see his record solely from 2007-2018 when he has been a test regular. I recall his average dips into world class/legendary territory.  And that's over 12 years so hardly an artificial sample.

[Satchmo Distel]

Here you go

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin1=15+Mar+2007;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

In terms of averages, among bowlers with over 200 wickets in that period, he is third behind Steyn and Philander. But it also shows what a weak era it has been for pace bowling.

[iamcoop]

I don't have the means to look them up at the moment but I believe his record for the last three years is bordering on the absurd.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Records suggest Richard Hadlee would have been on about 700 test wickets had he the same longevity as James Anderson. Then you have to compare the records of those seamers operating on uncovered pitches and a far smaller sample size. Difficult to do, overall. I would venture Anderson deserves to be on a similar footing to Donald, Walsh, Ambrose, Botham, Trueman, McGrath

The likes of Hadlee, Marshall, Akram, Younis, Lillee, Steyn are just more destructive overall as strike bowlers

23 of the 33 on wiki have played in the last 20 years which suggests these stats are misleading on face value.

Anderson is probably up there with the best English seamers though. Not sure I would say the same for Broad despite the fact he turns up and sends teams to the morgue every once in a while.

[Satchmo Distel]

Last three years or so. Yes, number 1

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin2=1+jan+2015;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmin1=15+Mar+2007;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=bowling

Anderson's record since 2007, ie. being a regular player. Yes that stands up with the best of them.

[monolith]

Just looking at the schedule the Australians had when they toured in 1977; before the first Test they'd played against 9 of the counties, and by the end of the summer they'd played against all 17 (plus the Minor Counties XI, the Combined Universities, the MCC, Ireland, a Rest of the World XI, and of course Lavinia, Duchess of Norfolk's XI). It's hardly surprising that teams used to be better acclimatised. (Admittedly, they still lost 3-0).

Think that was during WSC though so wasn't a strong team.

[monolith]

Anyway, Jimmy Anderson. He'll become the most successful pace bowler in test cricket history this series, overtaking Glenn McGrath and he's also in for a shout of eventually overtaking Anil Kumble. Where do we think he stands in the pantheon of greats? Is he better than pidgeon?

I don't think he is as good as McGrath, in the next tier under him though. Whatever way you look at the stats over whatever period, McGrath wins that battle.

Not sure I would say the same for Broad despite the fact he turns up and sends teams to the morgue every once in a while.

Broad is actually my favourite of the two, he's clearly no where near as consistent and can be an incredibly frustrating bowler to watch at times but when he clicks he's the most devastating fast bowler I've seen in my life time. I find the bad patches worth putting up with. I don't know how easy it is to recall such stats but he's apparently taken a 5fer in a single spell SEVEN times, which is absurd. He would have done it again yesterday if the rain hadn't come as he was in one of those sort of moods and only needed one more for a 5fer in that spell.

Edit: Between them they've taken 977 wickets. They'll become the only pace partnership to take 1000 wickets together and I think that record might stand for quite some time.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Nearly all of them resulted in changing the game position to a guaranteed win for England, so yes devastating and usually are crucial moments. However, outside of this he hasn't got many 5-fers for some to have played that many tests. He is a great foil for Anderson though as he gets good pace, tends to get movement off the pitch where there is any. They both set some of the most difficult questions batsmen face. I don't think anyone takes him seriously as a hostile bodyline pace bowler, mind.

Something about the left arm option so far has given our bowling lineup a nice variety. The right handers have struggled to play straight against Curran even if from the TV footage he looks like a 12 year old. If only we had a decent spinner. We will get away with not having one at home but our failure away from home entirely coincides with Trott/Pietersen/Collingwood/Swann and Panesar, all good players in foreign conditions retiring/going mental.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;spanmax2=13+Aug+2018;spanmin2=13+Aug+2012;spanval2=span;team=1;template=results;type=bowling

Anderson averaging below 20 at home in the last 6 years.

Comparatively Broad has bowled 25 more overs for 26 fewer wickets, half the number of 5-fors and at a higher economy rate. Fortunately that's still pretty good.

[monolith]

Don't get me wrong, Anderson is overall the better bowler and contributes more, I just personally love Broad's batshit days, they've been the most fun I've had as an England fan and as you say it usually happens at crucial moments in big series.

I could never make an argument for him being a better bowler, just love the ticking time bomb element and when it clicks it is incredible.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Let's enjoy some of them again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4pL_tt3dko - 5-1 in South Africa
... fucking hell Bavuma's wicket, ducking into a bouncer and getting bowled because he's about 4 foot tall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHWbbqlVrEc 8-15 vs Australia at Trent Bridge
... Aussie commentary too. That's right, call your own death you worms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCFwLPQpkGQ 6-25 vs India at Old Trafford
... love that Kumar wicket, watching, watching, yep - YEP - gonna keep leaving that one until it goes right onto the stumps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_bxYohXA0 5-26 vs Australia 2009 at the Oval, 4 over spell for 8 runs
... worth it for an epic biggest front pad in living memory Shane Watson lbw alone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IttVfpx2rz4 7-44 vs NZ at Lords
... absolute shitshow from NZ here - AIDStipodean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ-SYGknT3w 5-23 vs S.A at Trent Bridge (one dayers tho)
... frightening amount of bleached hair from both teams - Broad gone full Malfoy here - 4 for 9 at one point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8ae1mk1By4 6-50 vs Aus at Durham
... just... yes.

[monolith]

An obvious choice but that 8-15 is my favourite. Crunch time in the series with all to play for in the 4th test and Broad wins us the Ashes before lunch on the first day of play. This description on the wiki of that test is just beautiful:

"Australia were bowled out before lunch on the first day for 60 in 18.3 overs, the least number of overs a team has been bowled out for in the first innings of a Test match. Stuart Broad picked 8/15, the best bowling figures by a fast bowler in an Ashes Test, while extras outscored every one of Australia's batsmen with 14 (the top-scoring batsman was tail-ender Mitchell Johnson, with 13)."

There was an Aussie I worked with who was giving it large after Lords that year. We printed off about 30 copies of the scorecard and dotted them all over the office. Happy days. Have a horrible feeling we might lose for the first time at home in a generation next year though, Smith will be returning and will have a point to prove.