Author Topic: Star Wars: Young Han Solo  (Read 47982 times)

hewantstolurkatad

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2017, 06:38:37 PM »
The very fact Smith and Miller pushed Disney far enough as to fire them this late on is basically the only promising thing I've heard about this film. Much like Edgar Wright in Ant Man, they may've just about managed to force something that isn't terminally dull into the final product.

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 02:48:04 AM »
Apparently it was because they were taking too long to film it and doing a lot of improv along the way: http://www.avclub.com/article/theres-no-improv-star-wars-phil-lord-and-chris-mil-257327 - I'm more bothered about Kennedy's comments about Alden Ehrenreich which I've put in bold below, that really doesn't sound good.

Quote
There’s no improv in Star Wars, as Phil Lord and Chris Miller learned the hard way

Now that the Han Solo spinoff movie has been safely delivered into the hands of Opie, we can all take a deep breath and dive in to the best part of a high-profile Hollywood shakeup: The gossipy postmortem on where it all went wrong. The Hollywood Reporter has just that in its newest issue, delving in great detail into what happened to make producer Kathleen Kennedy send directors Phil Lord and Chris Miller down the garbage chute. And while Lord and Miller clashed with Kennedy over several issues, the answer can be distilled down to one word: Improv.

Yes, the comedic technique that’s stretched the running time of your average Hollywood comedy far past its breaking point (Sisters really did not need to be two hours long) was a source of much conflict on the set, with Lucasfilm brass growing increasingly upset that Lord and Miller were taking too long to finish each camera setup and throwing out lines to the actors that weren’t in the script, leaving hundreds of crew members sitting around idle while they riffed.

This latter transgression caused Lawrence Kasdan—the series’ longtime screenwriter who co-wrote the Han Solo spinoff with his son—to fly out to the set, where he clashed with Lord and Miller. There’s no improv in Star Wars, you see, and Kasdan was extremely unhappy that his carefully constructed snappy dialogue was being discarded. To appease him, Lord and Miller did takes with his dialogue, then additional improv takes; Kennedy, who was already displeased with the limited coverage that was being provided to the film’s editors and with star Alden Ehrenreich’s performance—she hired an acting coach for him after seeing initial footage, a rarity so late in a production—was not having this impudence. So she canned them.

Lord and Miller have reportedly been emailing with Howard and are taking the whole thing in stride. (They are reportedly still under consideration for The Flash, which presumably helps.) The footage Lord and Miller already shot is “very usable,” THR’s source says, but production will now extend into September rather than ending in July as planned. Whether this will affect the film’s planned May 2018 release date—and how the Directors Guild of America, which usually only allows one credited director on a project save for “bona fide teams,” will handle the switch—remains to be seen.

hewantstolurkatad

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2017, 08:32:40 AM »
Apparently it was because they were taking too long to film it and doing a lot of improv along the way: http://www.avclub.com/article/theres-no-improv-star-wars-phil-lord-and-chris-mil-257327 - I'm more bothered about Kennedy's comments about Alden Ehrenreich which I've put in bold below, that really doesn't sound good.

Pfft, you hire guys that are known for being into improv while shooting, what are you gonna expect?
I gather there was a lot of opposition to their being any improv at all, on account of Lawrence Kasdan writing a very tight script. Ignoring that Kasdan hasn't written a good film since 1981, it really begs the question of why even hire two improv guys in the first place.

Disney use name directors as a chunk of branding and nothing else, I've no time for it.



Ehrenreich was good in what I've seen him in, but they've been pretty different to this.

Jerzy Bondov

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2017, 08:54:31 AM »
Pfft, you hire guys that are known for being into improv while shooting, what are you gonna expect?
I gather there was a lot of opposition to their being any improv at all, on account of Lawrence Kasdan writing a very tight script. Ignoring that Kasdan hasn't written a good film since 1981, it really begs the question of why even hire two improv guys in the first place.
Indeed. How dare they sideline the beautiful script from the writer and director of the classic film Dreamcatcher?

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2017, 09:19:14 AM »
"I love you" "I know" - Not in the script, but turned out to be the most iconic line of the film, if not the series.

Fucking idiots

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2017, 10:20:09 AM »
The part I thought was tacky was Kennedy having an editor assemble a few scenes from dailies behind their backs and without their input to show to other execs to undermine them. How obnoxious! Of course all the improv wouldn't work if the people who knew what they were going for didn't get to prune it. I'm sure she was very careful to make them look fucking horrible considering the personal animosity involved. You can bet she went to Bob Iger with the most hideous, stiled nonsense reel of the very WORST bits of improv. Immediately having her minions leak nasty shit to the press to damage their careers further on the way out was a nice touch. She should be backing her picks up to the hilt, because these are HER DAMN CHOICES.

Ultimately it's her fault. She's 0-3 on her picks for these standalones. That trainwreck Josh tranquilized, Lord and Miller shitcanned, and Gareth Edwards pushed to the side while other people took over and reshot/recut his work while he sat there having to spin it as a great, positive experience. So much for hiring fresh young talent. 

Full disclosure: a friend of mine spent two years working for KK and has absolutely nothing good to say about how she treats underlings, so I'm clearly massively biased. Also, I laughed at her plastic surgery jokes.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 10:59:30 AM by Skip Bittman »

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2017, 10:38:49 AM »
Trank I can understand as they wouldn't know what a dumpster fire he was before they hired him but to get two distinctive directors like Edwards and Lord/Miller and then not let them do their thing, and even more so be surprised that even do their thing, seems like a proper fuck up.

hewantstolurkatad

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2017, 11:15:32 AM »
Trank I can understand as they wouldn't know what a dumpster fire he was before they hired him but to get two distinctive directors like Edwards and Lord/Miller and then not let them do their thing, and even more so be surprised that even do their thing, seems like a proper fuck up.
Edgar Wright
Ava DuVernay
Taika Waititi
Shane Black (this was a power play by RDJ though, iirc)
James Gunn
Ryan Coogler
Anna Boden & Ryan Fleck

Some names that were hired to work in the MCU right there, would it have made any real difference if they had the Russo Brothers do all 30 films after the Avengers? I believe there were others that were offered including the likes of the fucking Duplass Brothers. Outside of Joss Whedon I'm not sure anyone has made any kind of impact at all.

Disney don't really care hugely about who they're hiring, they just want (1) names that aren't going to immediately cause bad publicity with the nerds (i.e. old washed up hacks) and (2) people who will bend to doing things their way (i.e. younger directors under the assumption they'll tow the line rather than risk burning bridges).
It's honestly quite surprising they felt Lord and Miller were a safe enough choice to hire considering their pretty strong placing within the industry.

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2017, 12:52:58 PM »
Still should've gotten Anthony Ingruber playing Han Solo. Idiots.

Jerzy Bondov

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2017, 02:07:08 PM »
Edgar Wright
Ava DuVernay
Taika Waititi
Shane Black (this was a power play by RDJ though, iirc)
James Gunn
Ryan Coogler
Anna Boden & Ryan Fleck

Some names that were hired to work in the MCU right there, would it have made any real difference if they had the Russo Brothers do all 30 films after the Avengers? I believe there were others that were offered including the likes of the fucking Duplass Brothers. Outside of Joss Whedon I'm not sure anyone has made any kind of impact at all.
What's your point here? Of these, only Wright was dumped late in the game, and certainly not as late as Lord & Miller. DuVernay was offered Black Panther but passed, and we haven't seen Waititi, Coogler or Boden/Fleck's MCU work. That just leaves Shane Black and James Gunn and I think they both made pretty distinctive films within the MCU framework.

Glebe

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2017, 02:09:25 PM »
Apparently it was because they were taking too long to film it and doing a lot of improv along the way: http://www.avclub.com/article/theres-no-improv-star-wars-phil-lord-and-chris-mil-257327 - I'm more bothered about Kennedy's comments about Alden Ehrenreich which I've put in bold below, that really doesn't sound good.

Yeah, that's worrying about hiring an acting coach, I've only seen Ehrenreich in Hail Caesar!, thought he was pretty good actually. Kennedy appears to have taken a lot of flak for the whole debacle, the irony is that she's the one wanted to take a punt on younger, 'riskier' directors... the thing is, as proven here and to an extent with Gareth Edwards, there's still a line they have to toe. As the Hollywood Reporter article reports though, Rian Johnson's gig on Last Jedi apparently went off without a hitch. I can understand the concern about improvising and that, clearly Lord and Miller went too far for Kennedy and Kasdan, although it's a bit ridiculous it they're not allowed a little improve/experimentation.

The HR article initially reported that there was an outbreak of applause from the film crew when it was announced that Ron Howard was taking over, they've since amended that:

Quote
June 26, 4:15 p.m. A previous version of this article stated that the crew of the Han Solo spinoff broke into applause following the announcement of Ron Howard as director. In fact, these sources say the applause came at the end of the meeting in which the departure of Lord and Miller was announced and they were informed a new director would be arriving. These sources say the mood at the meeting was somber but there was applause "in support of the movie" (not in support of Lord and Miller's departure).

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2017, 02:58:48 PM »
Could be a lot worse, though.  Could be that George Lucas was still writing and directing them.  Can you imagine...

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2017, 03:14:14 PM »
What's your point here? Of these, only Wright was dumped late in the game, and certainly not as late as Lord & Miller. DuVernay was offered Black Panther but passed, and we haven't seen Waititi, Coogler or Boden/Fleck's MCU work. That just leaves Shane Black and James Gunn and I think they both made pretty distinctive films within the MCU framework.

Yes, and the Russo films are quite distinctive from Whedon's as well, and Branagh's too as well for that matter. I think they are never going to be let loose to do whatever the fuck they want because there is a larger universe to serve but I really don't get this thing about all Marvel films being the same. There are often structural and plotting similarities (third act problems, for one) but I think most of the directors put enough of their stamp within that framework to make them stand out

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2017, 11:41:43 PM »
The very fact Smith and Miller pushed Disney far enough as to fire them this late on is basically the only promising thing I've heard about this film. Much like Edgar Wright in Ant Man, they may've just about managed to force something that isn't terminally dull into the final product.

That its potentially going to be Ghostbusters mk2? modern comedy director/s well out of there depth having to put together something with some structure and depth of story/setting?

hewantstolurkatad

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2017, 02:19:32 AM »
What's your point here? Of these, only Wright was dumped late in the game, and certainly not as late as Lord & Miller. DuVernay was offered Black Panther but passed, and we haven't seen Waititi, Coogler or Boden/Fleck's MCU work. That just leaves Shane Black and James Gunn and I think they both made pretty distinctive films within the MCU framework.
She passed upon finding out she had fuck all say on the project. Like I said, Black being brought in was basically part of RDJ swinging his dick around.

Guardians of the Galaxy is the same as every other Marvel film, but with sci-fi veneer. The one boyband member who has a piercing and a star wars shirt.

I'm moreso working from how Disney operate in general, they're incredibly good marketers.
Waititi will be the litmus test really, the kind of guy that'd be pretty hard to dilute. The fact he's uninvolved in he script and has already had a project where Disney altered his original script enough that he didn't get any credit for the final product (which basically means less than nothing of what he originally wrote was included).

I think most of the directors put enough of their stamp within that framework to make them stand out
Disney let them put enough of their stamp within that framework to avoid the overall monster from slipping into a level where everyone can acknowledge that they're all the same. It's nothing other than the very very slight differentiation so people will always be like "but maybe this one's a bit different..."

I think we're already at the point where very few young directors with actual ideas are willing to go the route of doing some big budget hollywood things with limited creative input to get their name around though, and  it's not like it wasn't an issue in the past.
That its potentially going to be Ghostbusters mk2? modern comedy director/s well out of there depth having to put together something with some structure and depth of story/setting?
Pretty much, yeah! Give me the possibility of an interesting mess over total ambivalence. Although wrt the comparison, I rate Lord and Miller way more than I do Feig (who gets way too much credit for Freaks and Geeks in general)

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 07:43:32 AM »
I think we have been a bit spoiled with the Marvel films and people forget what superhero films and blockbusters in general were like before they started branching out. I would take a watered down James Gunn, Shane Black or Russo Brothers over Jan De Bont or Michael Bay any day of the week.

When have young interesting directors ever been given blockbuster films without studio interference? I think Marvel do a good job of matching director to material, which I think gets ignored sometimes

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 11:07:13 AM »
This seems rather different to Edwards to me, they was as I understand it always the intension to quite a lot of pickups for Rogue One, shoot a massive amount of stuff initially then bring it together for the initial edit and find out what else you needed depend on what worked best. He'd worked with Gilroy on Godzilla as well in a similar kind of role to so it seems likely it was a lot more diplomatic to bring him in again rather than firing him.

From what I'v heard about the direction the film took during the reshoots it seems like a shift for the better to me, playing down Jyn as some typical sassy too cool for school hero and taking the things in a bit more serious direction.

Lord/Miller never seemed that great a matchup for Star Wars to me, Edwards whilst he might have taken things in somewhat of a different direction did clearly have a desire to recreate a lot of the atmosphere of the originals plus a lot more experience working across productiosn(design, FX, etc) plus had previously worked on a large scale action film. With Marvel I think your naturally dealing with a setting that is much more easily malleable to the style of different directors.

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 11:41:45 AM »
I think we have been a bit spoiled with the Marvel films and people forget what superhero films and blockbusters in general were like before they started branching out. I would take a watered down James Gunn, Shane Black or Russo Brothers over Jan De Bont or Michael Bay any day of the week.

My Science, this is a good point.
As much as I hate Bay for ruining Transformers, at least if he's busy doing that he can't be fucking up other beloved franchises. 

Just imagine what a Michael Bay Star Wars film would be like.
Go on, imagine it.
Brrrr...

Glebe

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2017, 11:53:06 AM »
I want to see David Fincher do one.

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2017, 02:17:13 PM »
They're doing so many films, that I think eventually every director will get a go.

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
"I love you" "I know" - Not in the script, but turned out to be the most iconic line of the film, if not the series.

Fucking idiots

Would have had an improvised meta humour reference thrown in directly afterwards by Lord/Miller though lest 14 year old boys feel uncomfortable.

biggytitbo

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2017, 07:05:39 AM »
They're doing so many films, that I think eventually every director will get a go.


Even I'm slated to direct one next April.

Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2017, 07:12:22 AM »
There are no grassy knolls on Tatooine though.

Glebe

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 07:16:17 AM »
There are no grassy knolls on Tatooine though.

And there are no pansies at the bottom of Han's garden!

kidsick5000

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2017, 04:13:49 AM »
I want to see David Fincher do one.

In that post-Batman & Robin period of the late 90s, I wanted Fincher to do Batman with Gary Oldman as Bruce Wayne

kidsick5000

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2017, 04:57:48 AM »
Guardians of the Galaxy is the same as every other Marvel film, but with sci-fi veneer. The one boyband member who has a piercing and a star wars shirt.

That's a very blinkered view.
In terms of plot, sure but then you'll find that hero lacks something; goes on quest with friends; is given gift that proves useful; confronts villain; wins day fits to many hero stories going back to year dot.

Gunn is an outlier who has brought his own style and made it work within the system. I'd argue that Guardians is very different in tone and style. It is brighter,poppier and is far more willing to wear its heart on its sleeve. Generally, more fun while the rest have gone darker.


Of directors with big enough clout to tell any studio to shove it, you are looking at very few.
It's a big business. Even low budget films have producers ever ready to stick their oar in. To assume a director gets his vision and nothing else on the screen is naive.

What has happened after a decade of Marvel MCU is that it looks easy.
Take an indie director, give property, woo - you have a hit.

Jon Favreau was not a fluke. He proved he could handle a number of factors - create sharp dialogue in a script (Swingers), give an outwardly goofy scene heart (Elf) and handle effects (Zathustra).
And he could handle RDJ.

Now it's become the norm, but they aren't picking anyone with a true directing style.
Colin Trevorrow got the Jurassic World gig somehow. Gareth Edwards has not done anything similar to Monsters.
The latter has been smart and let the Rogue One changes go ahead. Something wasn't working, he could not see a solution so they brought someone else in. There are plenty of films that have turned out worse.
Take the Mummy. Alex Kurtzman has been involved in many blockbusters, but has never directed one - or an effects film. And it shows. I bet Universal wished they'd stepped in earlier.

End of the day, it's Disney's money an if they weren't happy, better to cut it off now than let something that doesn't fit the Star Wars world go out and then have to do all that - oh, ignore that one it isn't canon etc  - we're rebooting the character.
If it was of a lesser character maybe Boba Fett, they'd be fine. But Han Solo? There's no way they're taking chances there. Whatever version of Lord And Miller they thought they were getting, they didn't. So they've stepped in. Sometimes these things work out for the better.

mothman

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2017, 10:57:03 AM »
I wonder if they'll work out a way to have a certain iconic pair of droids make their traditional appearance? Perhaps have the Tantive IV parked next to the Falcon in a spaceport.

Glebe

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Mister Six

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2017, 01:03:34 AM »
I want to see David Fincher do one.

I want to see a David Lynch Doom Patrol.

newbridge

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Re: Star Wars: Young Han Solo
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2017, 01:05:35 AM »
I want to see David Fincher do one.

*Opening credits begin to roll*
*Chewbacca, young Luke Skywalker, young Princess Leia, C3PO, and R2D2 have all been killed in a space ship crash*
*We are on a planet of monk prisoners...*