Del Toro's The Shape of Water... hmmm...

[Glebe]

The Shape of Water trailer.

Hmmm, that amphibious humanoid who lives in a tank and has an apparent fondness for eggs looks very familiar... and wouldn't you know, he's played by Doug Jones. Given that Hellboy is receiving a new film iteration without the involvement Del Toro, however, it seems odd that he'd be doing his own spin-off. The similarities are undeniable, though. Bit of a Creature from the Black Lagoon nod too ("The natives in the Amazon worship this thing...") In any case, I hope it works... Crimson Peak looked lovely, but it was a bit of an empty experience.

[Glebe]

Nobody else bovvered with this? Miserable sods.

[Avril Lavigne]

Nobody else bovvered with this? Miserable sods.

I'm in two minds about it.  I'm a big fan of Creature From The Black Lagoon and so is Del Toro, and it seems like maybe he's doing this movie as sort of pseudo-homage because he can't do the official remake (which he said he'd love to do) as Universal are holding that back for their terrible superhero-action-influenced Dark Universe franchise & they'll want a director who'll do things their way (i.e. fill the screen with CG debris).

On the one hand, this looks like it will be a thousand times better than whatever Universal will churn out for their Black Lagoon remake should they ever get to that stage & I really like Sally Hawkins and Michael Shannon.

On the other, there's now even less chance of an official Black Lagoon remake being done the way it should (as a Cold-War period piece with scientific researchers and a weird creature/lady infatuation angle) for a long time due to this movie covering that ground with a different plot - much in the same way that Prometheus' similarities to At The Mouth of Madness had a hand in Del Toro's dream-adaptation of that movie being cancelled.

Either way though, I love the poster!

[Glebe]

'The Shape of Water' Early Buzz: Guillermo del Toro's Dazzling Fairy Tale May Be His Best Since 'Pan's Labyrinth'.

Also, here's The Independent's review, which is not linked to there... reassuring early word, there. Also:

Guillermo del Toro Teases Antifascist 'Pinocchio,' First 'The Shape of Water' Clip Revealed.

[hewantstolurkatad]

"May Be His Best Since 'Pan's Labyrinth'."
...so, better than Hellboy 2 and Pacific Rim?


Sally Hawkins, Michael Shannon, Richard Jenkins and Michael Stuhlbarg looks more like the perfect cast for a Coen Brothers film than something by Del Toro but I'm certainly not gonna turn down a chance to see all them together. Between that and the ludicrously strong initial reception (undoubtedly somewhat inflated but still), this is looking pretty promising tbh.


* _{Octavia Spencer is good too, just less of a fit for the Coen Brothers}

[greenman]

"May Be His Best Since 'Pan's Labyrinth'."
...so, better than Hellboy 2 and Pacific Rim?

Sally Hawkins, Michael Shannon, Richard Jenkins and Michael Stuhlbarg looks more like the perfect cast for a Coen Brothers film than something by Del Toro but I'm certainly not gonna turn down a chance to see all them together. Between that and the ludicrously strong initial reception (undoubtedly somewhat inflated but still), this is looking pretty promising tbh.

* _{Octavia Spencer is good too, just less of a fit for the Coen Brothers}

This does actually seem interesting in that its a Hollywood made film more along the lines of his exellent Spanish language stuff rather than his previous blockbuster style that I'v never quite understood the praise for, not terrible but always came across as a cheesier/shallower version of Peter Jackson to me.

[phantom_power]

"May Be His Best Since 'Pan's Labyrinth'."
...so, better than Hellboy 2 and Pacific Rim?

And Crimson Peak

[Twit 2]

I hope it's as good as Lady in the Water.

[Glebe]

I hope it's as good as Lady in the Water.

That's a chilling statement!

[Glebe]

New Red Band trailer.

Cannae wait for this.

[Glebe]

How Guillermo del Toro's 'The Shape of Water' Creature Was Created.

Good stuff.

[Mister Six]

Bit worried that red band trailer gave away everything, but it does look lovely. I'm always game for Del Toro.

[Glebe]

Bit worried that red band trailer gave away everything, but it does look lovely. I'm always game for Del Toro.

Jeremy Beadle leaves thread going "Hmmm..."

[Glebe]

'The Shape of Water': Meet Guillermo del Toro's Favorite Creature.

Guillermo del Toro originally pitched The Shape of Water in black and white.

"When it was in black and white, the budget was $12 million," Austerberry said. (Del Toro put the hypothetical black-and-white budget at $16.5.) "And then Fox Searchlight said, 'You know, if you make it color, we'll make it $19.6 million.' We were struggling at even $19.6 million to get it all down, so thankfully it went that way."

I'm quite cynical about all these B&W versions now, but if del Toro genuinely intended to do it that way initially, then I wouldn't mind seeing such a version in future.

[Glebe]

International trailer.

[Glebe]

Guillermo del Toro Taps Scott Cooper for 'Antlers' and Sets New Project 'Nightmare Alley' (EXCLUSIVE).

Never saw Nightmare Alley... a move away from fantasy/monsters for del Toro in any case.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Hour one: Mute cleaner falls in love with a fish man thing, whilst evil army types conspire to murder it.
Hour two: Mute cleaner and friends kidnap fish man thing, take him home, fish man eats a cat and they fall in love.

Unfortunately this played out in exactly the way I presumed it would, and whilst I didn't have an issue with it, I felt completely unengaged. Sure it looks pretty, and the script is decent enough, but I didn't care about proceedings. Fish man has no personality, problematically, and so whilst I could understand Sally Hawkins' sympathy, her lust for his big fat fish cock didn't really add up. Sure, they've got the mute thing going on which is supposed to be the reason why, but it didn't ring true for me. Which led me to finding it by no means bad, but all rather pointless. Oh well. 5.4/10

[Noodle Lizard]

It's really not very good.  Even without having much faith in modern cinema audiences, I'm confused as to why this one's getting so much praise.  The plot really is Free Willy or Splash (and that's only the aquatic comparisons), but chuck in some interspecies romance and a forced, patronizing "Who are the real monsters?" message to whack you over the head with a few times as well.  I'd be interested to hear some positive thoughts from Cabbers, because I've been scratching my head over the good reviews.

I thought the creature looked shite an all.

[Shit Good Nose]

I reckon Andy Serkis considers Doug Jones to be his arch nemesis.


I haven't seen it, but it looks like every other Del Toro film.

[Noodle Lizard]

I should probably have noted that I'm of the camp who placates Del Toro's reputation as a master crafstman filmmaker, but doesn't think he's actually made a really great film other than Pan's Labyrinth - and even that's not the greatest film ever, by some stretch.  The Devil's Backbone is okay, but not as astonishing as I'd been led to believe.  Everything else is mediocre at the very best, and utterly fuckawful at worst.  He's put his name on some decent-to-great films as a producer, but him as a director/filmmaker has had a very, very low hit-rate.  Far from being the catch-all stamp of quality that some people hold him up as.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I should probably have noted that I'm of the camp who placates Del Toro's reputation as a master crafstman filmmaker, but doesn't think he's actually made a really great film other than Pan's Labyrinth - and even that's not the greatest film ever, by some stretch.  The Devil's Backbone is okay, but not as astonishing as I'd been led to believe.  Everything else is mediocre at the very best, and utterly fuckawful at worst.  He's put his name on some decent-to-great films as a producer, but him as a director/filmmaker has had a very, very low hit-rate.  Far from being the catch-all stamp of quality that some people hold him up as.

I'm with you, he's capable of creating some interesting visual moments but the scripts are all too often shoddy and I think he's massively overrated. I had hoped after all the positive reviews The Shape Of Water would win me round, but it unfortunately did the opposite.

[greenman]

The Hollywood stuff definitely I'v never quite understood where a lot of the praise comes from, maybe the likable geekish persona? I was a bit mystied by the common claim that the Hobbit films for example would have had more depth to them if he'd ended up making them, this is the guy who made Hellboy and Pacific Rim, I must admit the latter is a bit of a guilty pleasure but classy ambitious cinema it is not.

[zomgmouse]

This was really beautiful. Don't be put off by the misery gutses above.

Obviously a lot of love goes into the creation of something like this and that's understandable considering his history and love for creatures and details. It's set up like a fairy tale right from the start, which again makes sense given Del Toro's predilections for that tone and genre. Tragic and funny in the right doses and a genuine emotional core. Plus there's a bit where a man gets dragged by his bullet wound in the face. So, you know, something for everybody.

[Head Gardener]

[Sin Agog]

This was really beautiful. Don't be put off by the misery gutses above.

Obviously a lot of love goes into the creation of something like this and that's understandable considering his history and love for creatures and details. It's set up like a fairy tale right from the start, which again makes sense given Del Toro's predilections for that tone and genre. Tragic and funny in the right doses and a genuine emotional core. Plus there's a bit where a man gets dragged by his bullet wound in the face. So, you know, something for everybody.

I'm witchu, homes.  I used to be one of those angsty ponces who'd go around quoting James Joyce to anyone who'd listen ("Sentimentality is unearned emotion"), but I've cut that shit out as I've grown older: well-done melodrama is the best thing, and this is clearly so personal and heartfelt a project for Del Toro that I couldn't help but love it.  I've also become more receptive to this style of simple stories told well as an antidote to the bloated, coreless mess of things like the DC movies.  I've heard Guillermo gets angry at the adoption of TV over cinema more than most, as, though he adores programs like the Sopranos, he couldn't cite a single image from it that stuck in his mind.  I reckon there'll be a few from this movie that'll be lodged in the ol' brain-box for a long time to come.  That flooded bathroom scene in particular.  Sally Hawkins was brilliant in this.  I get the feeling from films like Happy-Go-Lucky that she's a bit of a garrulous sort in real life, and you could really see her carry on communicating through the silence.

[Noodle Lizard]

Has anyone read up on the plagiarism accusations?

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/shape-water-rip-off-614493

Granted, it's a generic enough story that it's bound to be reminiscent of others (including Del Toro's own work, and all the evil government stuff feels like a South Park parody), but it's hard to overlook some of the more specific similarities.

[Icehaven]

Has anyone read up on the plagiarism accusations?

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/shape-water-rip-off-614493

Granted, it's a generic enough story that it's bound to be reminiscent of others (including Del Toro's own work, and all the evil government stuff feels like a South Park parody), but it's hard to overlook some of the more specific similarities.

Although in this case it looks - bizarrely - as if there's no link between TSOW and the Dutch film and it's just coincidence, the case with the old screenplay is less clear. It could well be another coincidence, however 'openly acknowledging influences' and 'welcoming conversations' is a bit of a patronising fudge, like ''Yeah we might have nicked a few ideas here and there, why not pop up to our massive Hollywood castle and have an audience with the Emperor himself, he'd be happy to have a quick chat with you, whoever you are.''

[Sin Agog]

Del Toro gets sent hundreds of short movies every year apparently, and then agrees to produce features out of the very best ones, like with Mama and The Orphanage.  Could be that short was sent to him in that context?  Either way, I'm not perturbed.  Whether something works is all about the way it's done.   Same chord sequence or not, My Sweet Lord is a very different song to He's So Fine, and Shape... felt like it had more Guillermo in it than anything he's done before.

[CaledonianGonzo]

This is on in the smallest screen of our local art house whilst Lady Bird dominates the main room.  Could be there's less appetite for fishman sex than Wullie Bull envisaged.

[Wet Blanket]

Strongly disliked it, thought it was skeezy and puerile, a banal 'beauty and the beast' type of thing with sex and violence bolted on. Reminded me of those comics where they take a beloved cartoon character and adultify it by introducing shagging and swearing.

The wanking in the bath and boffing the monster were one thing, but nearly walked out when it got to the Busby Berkley number.

THAT SAID

Sally Hawkins and Michael Shannon are really good.

Three tins of pilchards out of ten