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Bitcoin splits

Started by Quincey, August 02, 2017, 07:16:11 AM

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Quincey

Like the trousers of someone wearing a size 30 with a size 34 waist, Bitcoin has split:  https://www.cnet.com/news/bitcoin-cash-splits-in-two-in-blockchain-feud/

momatt

Bitcoins already confused the hell out of me.  This does not help matters.

Twed

I could split the blockchain right now, so could anybody, it doesn't mean anything unless both are actively supported. One will thrive, one will fail (and the one that will fail is $BCC).

QuoteOnly some bitcoin exchanges will support the new cryptocurrency, but some bitcoin owners will find their stash automatically cloned into both types
No, all will. People who keep their coins on exchanges (i.e. don't have the private keys) might not, but those people don't actually own Bitcoin, they just have IOUs from the exchange.


Twed

They're all signaling SegWit by the tiem I'm finished with them.

Quincey

Is it worth buying some Bitcoins reading for the 2019 recession, and how does one buy Bitcoins from a trustworthy source?

Twed

It was definitely worth buying Bitcoin six months ago (and fortunately I did; my 1.5 Bitcoins have doubled in value). The best time to buy was any time in the past, as it's never been higher. If you bought $100 worth of Bitcoin five years ago you'd be rich today.

Today you're not likely to see any instant gratification, and there will likely be times when you'll be holding less value that your purchase. But I suspect that this time next year you'd be looking at a healthy profit, and in ten year's time a small purchase today could be worth a lot. Think of it like gold; it's not actually that good for transactions at the moment.

Only buy it if you have spare money. This is no way to get yourself out of a financial hole. And spread your purchases between Bitcoin and Ethereum.

If you hold Bitcoin, use a hardware wallet like Trezor. Do not keep them in Coinbase or any other exchange, as you won't own them and you could lose them all (see mt.gox).

Replies From View

Does this work with Monopoly money as well?

Twed

Yes it also works with things that aren't the thing the topic is about for comic effect

Sebastian Cobb

Bitcoin should be used for buying drugs and hitmen, not for hoarding in digital vaults like stolen gold.

momatt

Surely loads of people are doing this though?  Or doesn't that matter?

Might look into a hardware wallet.

Twed

Quote from: momatt on August 02, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
Surely loads of people are doing this though?  Or doesn't that matter?
I am. I'm not going crazy with it, but I think it's a good idea to just have at least one Bitcoin. Unless cryptocurrencies stop being a thing (which won't happen) it's sure to be a good long-term investment. For me, it's been a reasonably good short-term one (on a scale of "I'd make around $2000 profit if I cashed out now").

So yeah, buy that Trezor and enough Bitcoin to at least make the cost of the Trezor worth it.

Before I got the Trezor I was cold storing on paper. It made me too nervous ("Did I REALLY copy that private key down correctly?") though.

BeardFaceMan

I bought my first bitcoin 3 years ago and it cost me 30 quid, the rate of increase might slow down but I dont see the increase in price stopping just yet.

Twed

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on August 02, 2017, 04:27:07 PM
I bought my first bitcoin 3 years ago and it cost me 30 quid, the rate of increase might slow down but I dont see the increase in price stopping just yet.
I wish I knew back then. Nice purchase!

Sebastian Cobb

I still think something better than bitcoin will take off that addresses its limitations (Etherium?), but the world is full of examples of people saying this where the technically inferior product wins out because of adoption.

It could be this generation's VHS.

Twed

Yeah. I don't think it will be a big payment platform in the end, but it seems to be fulfilling the role of digital gold quite well.

Replies From View

What the fuck are Bitcoins, though?  Shares in a company?

Quincey

This sentence, from a Telegraph article, makes me smile

QuoteThe website Bittybot allows you to compare brokers, including trust ratings.


Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Twed on August 02, 2017, 06:14:33 PM
Yeah. I don't think it will be a big payment platform in the end, but it seems to be fulfilling the role of digital gold quite well.

The idea that oil is burned to crunch more of these numbers for both bitcoin and etherium (eth miners seem to think that flying graphics cards to their data centers is worth the money - they'll lose out if they were shipped) makes my head spin.

Twed

Quote from: Replies From View on August 02, 2017, 06:17:27 PM
What the fuck are Bitcoins, though?  Shares in a company?
I don't know if this is a serious question or not. It's a good question that I'll happily answer, I just don't want to start talking about proof of work and private keys if it's a joke I'm missing (you wolf-crier)

Twed

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on August 02, 2017, 06:30:30 PM
The idea that oil is burned to crunch more of these numbers for both bitcoin and etherium (eth miners seem to think that flying graphics cards to their data centers is worth the money - they'll lose out if they were shipped) makes my head spin.
It's the people (and governments?) hollowing out mountains that scares me.

On a positive note (perhaps), a lot of these Bitcoin farms are powered by water. They wouldn't be profitable if it was electricity.

TheManOne

Money is so odd. I really don't get it.
S'all bollock init?

Funcrusher

Is there anything to prevent bitcoins being suddenly worth absolutely nothing? I get all the Biggy stuff about fiat currencies, but they are backed by entire nations that have existed for centuries. What really stands behind bitcoins?

colacentral

I thought I'd already missed the boat on BitCoin's meteoric rise several years ago. It's quite devastating to read that apparently I would be incredibly rich today if I'd bought it even back then.

Replies From View

Quote from: Twed on August 02, 2017, 07:08:20 PM
I don't know if this is a serious question or not. It's a good question that I'll happily answer, I just don't want to start talking about proof of work and private keys if it's a joke I'm missing (you wolf-crier)

It's an honest question.

Twed

Cool.

So Bitcoin is a digital currency. Owning an amount of Bitcoin boils down to owning a private key that looks like this:

L1yMUuhBXE39RqXNT1GETqR2ToUz6hFLNLFTMriHDCdPo4ucG27J

Anybody with that key can access all of the Bitcoins registered to it (there are none, because I just generated this key). You would never share the key. But you would derive the PUBLIC key from it, which is the 'address' via which other people could send money to you. That would be 1A8fdhX8KGvmJVEtcRvFkByJnmsAyLLpsH in this case. If I send a Bitcoin there, it can be spent by the owner of the super-secret private key above.

The actual sending occurs by "signing" a transaction with your super-secret private key in a way that can be verified.

That's how you 'have' Bitcoin, and how it is spent. Some details about how it operates:

Every transaction is on a huge public ledger. It's not private at all. Every single transaction made with Bitcoin is stored on the public ledger, distributed among the computers of Bitcoin miners. I could use the public key above to see exactly how much the Bitcoin is stored in your corresponding private key: https://blockchain.info/address/1A8fdhX8KGvmJVEtcRvFkByJnmsAyLLpsH

Mining is how new Bitcoin is generated. It's generated as a reward for people doing the work of confirming that the transactions that occur on the huge public ledger. This job is made artificially computationally expensive, to control how much Bitcoin can be generated.

The upshot of this is that a Bitcoin transaction isn't instantly verifiable like you'd imagine computer money could be. It can actually be quite slow.

Twed

The philosophy of Bitcoin is that it can replace money, but be independent of any financial institution. The analogy to mining appears because it has scarcity (computer power is needed to mine new coins). Nobody controls it, so as long as people are using it, it fulfills the needs of a currency.

The reason it facilitates drug trade etc. is that even though every transaction is public, if your identity isn't tied to a Bitcoin address then nobody can trace it back to you.

Replies From View

Thanks Twed.  My head hurts now though.

Twed

I'm sorry, that is quite confusing. I tried to explain in a way where you only need to understand one paragraph only, depending on which part is relevant to your interests.

Replies From View

Quote from: Twed on August 02, 2017, 08:50:24 PM
I'm sorry, that is quite confusing. I tried to explain in a way where you only need to understand one paragraph only, depending on which part is relevant to your interests.

You did a good job.  I just can't get my head around it as a currency and the way more Bitcoins are 'mined'.  I suppose it's no less mystifying than any other currency, I just don't normally try to think about it.