Doctor Who - Series 10 (Part 3)

[Replies From View]

In this thread, we discussed Moffat's final months as Doctor Who showrunner.

[Replies From View]

If they pull this off, I wonder if we'll see stand-ins for the other Doctors on more than a fleeting basis? I'm sure there are many Colin Baker lookalikes wandering around out there. We could have an episode full of them!

A similar thought is considered in Moffat's interview for DWM 515:

William Hartnell, the original Doctor Who, died back in 1975 at the age of 67. But the character of the First Doctor reappeared in 1983's 20th Anniversary Special,  The Five Doctors, now played by Richard Hurndall. When BBC Two commissioned An Adventure in Space and Time  in 2013, a wonderful drama about the origins of  Doctor Who, David Bradley was cast as Hartnell, also appearing in character as the First Doctor in several key scenes.

"It was Peter Capaldi who said, 'We could get David Bradley for the main show,'" Steven confirms. "And that's when I thought, 'Yes, well, I guess we can! We really can!' That's on video somewhere, as he said it at a Comic-Con panel."

I wonder if there is something slightly different about the First Doctor, which doesn't apply in quite the same way with the other Doctors? With Hartnell having been dead for more than 40 years, and with the precedent having been set 30 years ago with Richard Hurndall, is he 'allowed' to be recast in a way that you wouldn't with all the others? You couldn't have a  faux  Tom Baker turn up, could you?

"It's an interesting one," Steven ponders, thoughtfully. "I think it's tougher now. I think when Richard Hurndall did it, we weren't really that used to the old Doctors at all. In the same story, Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee turn up in only loose approximations of their costumes. They didn't really get that right. Not really. And let's be honest, they look a bit different, because they're older. Back then, we didn't know Hartnell all that well, and Richard Hurndall looked vaguely like him. But looking at him now in  The Five Doctors  – and I love The Five Doctors, I think it's glorious – he's not  very much like William Hartnell at all. But it's quite an affecting performance. I liked him. I also liked the sheer class of having William Hartnell introduce it. You know, you see a clip of him at the start. That's respecting the audience. It's saying, 'We're not pretending it's the same man.' When you see someone recast with no explanation, you have a sort of resentment, don't you? 'Are we supposed not to notice?'  We don't completely ignore the fact that he's different, but I would say what David Bradley is doing is in a different order to what Richard Hurndall was doing. He really is – it's not even an impersonation, but it does evoke Hartnell very strongly."

It's a  really  tough thing to ask an actor to do, isn't it? "It's a very,  very  difficult thing to do. He riffs   on him all the time. In the way that you know Chris Pine in the new  Star Trek  movies riffs on William Shatner? In ways that sort of make you accept him as the same person. David Bradley's doing that. He gives you actual Hartnell-isms.   He gives you the mannerisms, but also subtler things. Like the way he says 'ship'. It's all there. You're not going to think it really  is  William Hartnell – but there are  moments..."

I'm enjoying the trend of referring to the character as "Doctor Who" all of a sudden.  Capaldi was dropping it into his interviews in 2014, and I remember being amused at the time, thinking "he knows what he's doing," and I approve - it's an argument that must keep going forever.

[purlieu]

I enjoyed Missy's breakdown of how and why he was named both Doctor Who and The Doctor in episode 11. But I've been watching some Hartnell-era commentaries recently and they all call him Doctor Who, and it's such a crap name.

[daf]

But I've been watching some Hartnell-era commentaries recently and they all call him Doctor Who, and it's such a crap name.

I think everyone working on the 63-89 show (actors, writers, directors, make up, technicians, stunt men . .) interviewed for Toby Hadoke's 'Whosround' podcasts call the character Doctor Who. EVERYONE!

In the Radio Times 1973 10th anniversary Special, it's solidly 'Dr Who' (and 'Tardis') throughout :

AN UNEARTHLY CHILD :
Susan Foreman, 15, is Dr Who's grand-daughter and goes to Coal Hill School, London  . . . Home is a police box which is infact a Tardis (standing for Time and Relative Dimensions in Space), Dr Who's dimensionally trancendental spaceship.

And bang up to date - on the news just now, Clive Myrie introduced a new interview with Jodie Whittaker as her being the "13th Doctor Who" !

[Replies From View]

Also in the DWM 515 interview with Moffat:

It strikes me that you're keen to include little nuggets that allow fans to make sense of some of the apparent contradictions in the series over the years. For example, we now have an answer to the question – if we take Missy at her word – of whether the Doctor's name really is 'Doctor Who'.

"The way I approached that stuff – and the way Russell approached it as well – if you're crashing into old continuity, I want to throw some sort of scrap to the fans. Just one little line somewhere that you can latch onto and elaborate into a theory. The Doctor's age, for example. Of course it made great sense for Christopher Eccleston to say he's 900, because that sounds like an epic age. But if you know the show, you know that makes him  younger  than he used to be. So eventually the Doctor admits in  The Day of the Doctor  that he doesn't actually know and he's just making it up.

"But as for the 'Doctor Who' thing... Well. First of all, it's an inescapable fact of the continuity that his name  is  Doctor Who. If you're going to take continuity seriously, his name  is  Doctor Who, because it says so in  The War Machines  [1966]. That's why he chose it for the licence plate of his car. That's why he signs himself 'Dr W'. That's why he says he's Doctor Von Wer."

We're not really sure if Missy is joking, but it does sound like exactly the sort of name he  would have adopted at some point. This is the man who was enamoured by the moniker 'Doctor Mysterio'.  And he's the man who put question marks on his lapels. It all makes perfect sense at last!

"Exactly! If you suggested to him that he should call himself 'Doctor Who', he'd go, 'Yeah! That would sound mysterious, wouldn't it?' Because he's not at home to Mr Subtlety. Some people got all snobby about the question marks. But I quite liked them! I had no trouble with the question marks. I loved that question mark umbrella. I thought it was lovely. It was a beautiful thing."

[Ambient Sheep]

Sheepy's guide to Doctor Who threads

Main threads about the new series, in chronological order of creation:
2004/03/04 - 2004/03/20:  Izzard as Dr Who ? (Rampant speculation)
2004/03/20 - 2005/02/21:  And the new Doctor Who is... (Eccleston's announcement to the start of Series 1 (27))
2005/02/27 - 2006/10/10:  New Doctor Who (Series 1 (27) & 2 (28))
2006/11/01 - 2007/05/21:  Newer Doctor Who  (Series 3 (29) part 1)
2007/05/24 - 2009/10/21:  The New Doctor Who thread (Series 3 (29) part 2, Series 4 (30), 2009 up to but not including The Waters Of Mars)
2009/10/21 - 2010/03/26:  The "New" Doctor Who Thread (2009 just before The Waters of Mars to just before Series 5 (31/Fnarg) aired)
2010/03/18 - 2010/07/27:  Doctor Who - Series 5 Discussion (No Spoilers) (Series 5 (31/Fnarg))
2010/06/13 - 2011/01/15:  So, Doctor Who. (started as Fry's questions thread, mutated halfway down page 12 into general post-Series-5-(31/Fnarg) discussion, including the 2010 Christmas special (A Christmas Carol))
2011/01/20 - 2012/01/05:  Doctor Who Series 6 (Series 6 (32))
2012/01/07 - 2012/12/29:  Doctor Who Series 7 and beyond (may contain spoilers) (S07(33)E01 (Asylum of the Daleks) - S07(33)E05 (The Angels Take Manhattan) plus Christmas Special (The Snowmen))
2012/12/29 - 2013/07/11:  Doctor Who, Series 7 (part two) (S07(33)E06 (The Bells of Saint John) - S07(33)E13 (The Name of the Doctor))
2013/01/07 - 2014/01/05:  Doctor Who - 50th anniversary year (overlaps with the previous thread)
2013/12/26 - 2014/08/11:  Doctor Who - Series 8 (101 pages before Series 8 (34) had even aired!)
2014/08/09 - 2014/10/21:  Doctor Who - Series 8 (Part 2) (S08(34)E01 (Deep Breath) - S08(34)E09 (Flatline))
2014/10/21 - 2015/01/14:  Doctor Who - Series 8 (Part 3) (S08(34)E09 (Flatline) - S08(34)E12 (Death in Heaven) plus Christmas Special (Last Christmas))
2015/01/05 - 2015/10/27:  Doctor Who - Series 9 (S09(35) speculation and E01 (The Magician's Apprentice) - E06 (The Woman Who Lived))
2015/10/26 - 2016/01/21:  Doctor Who - Series 9 (continued) (S09(35)E07 (The Zygon Invasion) - S09(35)E12 (Hell Bent) plus Christmas Special (The Husbands of River Song))
2016/01/22 - 2017/04/15:  Doctor Who - Series 10 (Pre-S10(36) speculation)
2017/04/15 - 2017/08/07:  Doctor Who - Series 10 (Part 2) (S10(36)E01 (The Pilot) - S10(36)E12 (The Doctor Falls))
2017/08/07 - 201?/??/??:   Doctor Who - Series 10 (Part 3)  - you're reading it now)


Threads about the old series, in chronological order of creation:
Old Doctor Who (Original thread, 2005/05/11 - 2010/06/08)
Old Doctor Who (Second thread, 2011/01/14 - 2016/10/21)
Old Doctor Who - Part 3 (Third thread, 2016/10/21 - 20??/??/??)


Other Doctor Who related broadcast threads, also in chronological order:
Torchwood Series 1
The Sarah Jane Adventures (just the pilot, not Series 1, there was no S1 thread)
The Best And Worst Of Doctor Who... Ever
Doctor Who - where does everyone stand now ?
Torchwood Series 2
Sarah Jane adventures- Series 2
Torchwood Series 3 (aka Children of Earth)
Sarah Jane Adventures Series 3
Doctor Who and the SPOILERS OF DEATH (aborted Series 5 (31/Fnarg) thread)
Junior Masterchef with Doctor Who
Doctor Who: The Adventure Games
Torchwood: The New World (one-page thread presaging Series 4 / Miracle Day)
Torchwood return date.... (three-post thread announcing Series 4 / Miracle Day)
Torchwood: Miracle Day (aka Series 4)
Torchwood: Miracle Day (US airings)
Class (Doctor Who spin-off) series 1

There wasn't a Sarah Jane Adventures Series 4 thread, let alone a Series 5 one. :-(


Still more Doctor Who related threads, again in chronological order:
Fanzines (Comedy, Doctor Who and in general)
Mong Doctor Who series 5 (H.S. Art thread)
Recommend me some Old Doctor Who (a really good thread, IMHO)
Doctor Who Mongs (H.S. Art thread)
Beeb to show unseen interview with Dr Who theme creator (Delia Derbyshire)
Doctor Who film (November 2011 thread about film rumour)
Watching Doctor Who no 1. The Time Meddler (1965)
Why i don't like modern Doctor Who
Doctor Who leaked scripts thread (but still no spoilers) (July 2014)
Doctor Who: The Movie (April 2015 thread about another film rumour)
K9: Timequake (new movie coming 2017, allegedly... very allegedly, by now)
Doctor Who World (should it become an expanded franchise like Marvel?)
Dr Who Re Dooooo (would it be worth refilming some early stories?)
Doctor Who or Chips? (addressing the burning issue of the day)
Tom Baker is still alive (General Tom Baker appreciation thread)


_{^{(See here for sources.  Further additions & corrections welcome.)}}

[Ambient Sheep]

In this thread, we discussed Moffat's final months as Doctor Who showrunner.

Well except that he's not showrunner any more, as the last couple of DWMs have made amply clear.  This is really gonna be pre-Chibnall discussion with Moffat's Christmas Special thrown in.

And bang up to date - on the news just now, Clive Myrie introduced a new interview with Jodie Whittaker as her being the "13th Doctor Who" !

Not only that, but the VT's voiceover says "...the 13th actor to play..." which is a whole huge can of worms!

The interview's mainly an excuse to plug her new drama, Trust Me, which starts tomorrow evening, but it was interesting to learn that she'd been told she'd got it near the end of March, so before this series had even started airing...

[Small Man Big Horse]

Sheepy's guide to Doctor Who threads

Thanks for that Sheepy, always find it useful / nostalgic to go through old threads.

That K-9 film is supposed to be still going ahead btw, but I'll believe it when I see it - http://news.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/john-leeson-back-for-k9-film/

[Replies From View]

Well except that he's not showrunner any more, as the last couple of DWMs have made amply clear.  This is really gonna be pre-Chibnall.discussion with Moffat's Christmas Special thrown in.

Possibly, although Moffat has himself down as showrunner until 'Twice Upon A Time' has finished broadcasting (he's still doing the promotional side of things, for example.  All interviews are still with him).  The final words of that will be the Thirteenth Doctor written by Chibnall, whereupon Chibnall's stint as showrunner is symbolically opened.

I don't think much news will be released about series 11, Chibnall or Whittaker until then, either.  They don't want to muscle in while it's still Moffat and Capaldi's time.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Here's Shaun Keaveny's 6 Music interview with Whittaker: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05br8l3

[BritishHobo]

I really am going to miss Moffat. For all my problems with him, The Wedding of River Song, Clara, series 7 and 8, he's been an incredible showrunner, both in taking the show in breathtaking new directions, filling the show with endless wonder and imagination, but also looking back on the show's history and keeping loyal to it in so many lovely ways. He's done wonders for the show.

[Deanjam]

Matt Smith's first two series are my favourites since the Key to Time. They're the only new-Who seasons I have on DVD. He also wrote Blink. He'll always get a thumbs up from me.

[Deanjam]

I hope at least once he completly fluffs his lines, and for 10 minutes in the middle of the episode he is absent because David Bradley is on holiday.

I hope he refers to a nice Chesterfield couch as a Chesterton.

[olliebean]

In the Radio Times 1973 10th anniversary Special, it's solidly 'Dr Who' (and 'Tardis') throughout

To be fair, nobody ever gets TaRDiS right.

[mothman]

OK, here's a question for the Hive Mind: in the Smershpod podcast I'm currently listening to (A View to a Kill - I'm a bit behind) it is said "You're not really the Doctor until you've met the Daleks." I guess it's all part of the show, and as far as I'm aware every Doctor has had a Dalek adventure. But I was wondering - what is the LATEST* in his** tenure a Doctor has ever gone up against them? How long have they put off the seemingly inevitable?

*  _{In terms of serials (old style) or episodes (new style)?}
**_{His, for now. Place your bets for how long it'll be before She Who Shall Be Called Thirteen meets them!}

[Namtab]

OK, here's a question for the Hive Mind: in the Smershpod podcast I'm currently listening to (A View to a Kill - I'm a bit behind) it is said "You're not really the Doctor until you've met the Daleks." I guess it's all part of the show, and as far as I'm aware every Doctor has had a Dalek adventure. But I was wondering - what is the LATEST* in his** tenure a Doctor has ever gone up against them? How long have they put off the seemingly inevitable?

Well, Davison never had a PROPER Dalek story until two years into his run, though a Dalek turns up in The Five Doctors (Davo doesn't meet it though). Pertwee also takes two years.

[Deanjam]

Hartnell - 2nd story
Troughton - 1st story
Pertwee - 3rd series (unless you count Mind of Evil then it's second series)
Tom - 4th story
Davison - 3rd series (unless you count 5 Doctors - as above)
Colon - 1st full series
McCoy - 2nd series
McGann - 1st story (technically)
Eccleston - 1st series
Tennant - 1st series
Smith - 1st series
Capaldi - 1st series

[FredNurke]

Resurrection was intended to be the closing story of Davison's second series, but got bumped back a year because of industrial action.

Pertwee hated doing Dalek stories, although I don't know whether that was always the case or whether he got progressively more pissed off with them.

[Namtab]

Ah, that explains why The King's Demons was considered a suitable way of closing a season... Season 20's an odd one in that it's filled with faves but bookended by two of my most disliked stories.

[kidsick5000]

I really am going to miss Moffat. For all my problems with him, The Wedding of River Song, Clara, series 7 and 8, he's been an incredible showrunner, both in taking the show in breathtaking new directions, filling the show with endless wonder and imagination, but also looking back on the show's history and keeping loyal to it in so many lovely ways. He's done wonders for the show.

He's taken the show to amazing heights. It even looked better under him. That change in look in The Eleventh Hour compared to the RTD run.
It's just a shame that a replacement wasn't groomed earlier so he could leave when he originally planned. Or that we didn't get series 10 instead of series 8.

Looking ahead, I hope they do consider a showrunner mentoring/grooming programme.
(They must have a standby in case the Chibnall run goes wrong. I was going to say "tits up" but...well, for obvious reasons).

[kidsick5000]

Sheepy's guide to Doctor Who threads
Mong Doctor Who series 5 (H.S. Art thread)
Doctor Who Mongs (H.S. Art thread)

What a shame the photobucket nonsense has robbed us of that.
Anyone up for a new one?

[Ambient Sheep]

He's taken the show to amazing heights. It even looked better under him. That change in look in The Eleventh Hour compared to the RTD run.

Not quite sure what you mean by "looked better", but it's worth bearing in mind that the show only switched to HD four episodes before the end of RTD's tenure (from Planet of the Double Decker Bus onwards).

[Small Man Big Horse]

What a shame the photobucket nonsense has robbed us of that.
Anyone up for a new one?

I'd definitely be up for that.

[Ambient Sheep]

Possibly, although Moffat has himself down as showrunner until 'Twice Upon A Time' has finished broadcasting (he's still doing the promotional side of things, for example.  All interviews are still with him).

Fair enough, I suppose.

Here's Shaun Keaveny's 6 Music interview with Whittaker: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05br8l3

Ah thanks, you've saved me the bother.  I've not yet found a single long take of the video interview, but here's a couple of links:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-40851893/jodie-whittaker-reveals-how-she-feels-about-becoming-the-13th-doctor -- a four-minute version that's certainly not comprehensive, as not only does it not include the bit below, it also doesn't include the bit I saw on the BBC News Channel where she said she found out at the end of March.

Hopefully once they've stopped drip-feeding us bits here and there to stretch out the news cycle, they'll put up a complete version somewhere.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-40851896/jodie-whittaker-reacts-to-fans-dressing-up-as-her-in-the-new-doctor-who -- given how the fans are already taking that as her costume, I'm starting to think the production team would be foolish to go with anything else.

[Mister Six]

Not quite sure what you mean by "looked better", but it's worth bearing in mind that the show only switched to HD four episodes before the end of RTD's tenure (from Planet of the Double Decker Bus onwards).

That's part of it, but it also had infinitely better cinematography and more assured direction too.

[Kelvin]

The show was very flatly lit pre-series 5, too. Everything looks very cheap as result.

Under Moffat, the series has generally looked much better, although Capaldi's first two series took a bit of a nose dive in certain episodes.

[biggytitbo]

I'd say it was more variable under RTD, there were lots of episodes that looked like cheap daytime soap operas, especially in the first two series, but then you have stuff like Empty Child, Girl in the Fireplace, Human Nature etc which still look great now. I still maintain that The Impossible Planet has the best production design of any Who episode to date too.

[Malcy]

Check out this nonsense...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-08-08/peta-urge-doctor-who-to-make-the-doctor-vegan

[Bad Ambassador]

Nice of them to just reprint the publicity-seeking press release in full with no editorial comment, as if PETA was an organisation that is entirely free of controversy.

And quoting Christopher Eccleston, forgetting that his Doctor ordered steak in a restaurant.

And their track record of mass slaughter of animals in their shelters is less than entirely compassionate.

[Alternative Carpark]

Someone should show PETA 'The Two Doctors', where the Doctor becomes a vegetarian at the end.  Alright, not quite a vegan, but it's in that direction.  There's some quite overt attacks on meat-eating in that one.