Firefox add-on cull

[olliebean]

Right, so that's practically every add-on I use scheduled to be made obsolete in November, then. Is this supposed to be progress?

[biggytitbo]

Whats the reasoning, is it a security thing?


I still find it a bit weird people use firefox, its absolutely dropped like a stone over the last few years. Its like learning someone still has a black and white telly.

[olliebean]

They've introduced a new add-on system, I think it's based on the Chrome one, so supposedly you'll be able to use Chrome add-ons - no bad thing, and I don't have a problem with that - the problem is they're removing the old system in v57 so most existing add-ons (I think the last count I saw was 88%, although it's possible some have been updated since then) will no longer work.

The problem is there are certain very useful functions that are impossible to implement under the new system. For example, anything that changes the UI, which is the only reason lots of people kept using it after they buggered up the default UI a few years back. Or something as basic as being able to pass a URL to an external program. I also find that where add-ons have been updated to the new system, they often exhibit a lagginess that the old versions didn't.

As for why I'm still using Firefox, it's largely due to the add-ons, many of which have no equivalent available for Chrome (and will presumably have no equivalent available for Firefox v57 onwards). But also because I just don't get on with Chrome, which seems to be what most people are switching to. It uses too many resources and crashes too often, and I don't like the way it imposes Google's idea of how I might want to use it. (God forbid, for example, I might be allowed to choose for myself which bookmarks appear on my new tab page, rather than let Google take a punt on which ones I might want.)

I'm just hoping someone will produce a branch of Firefox that retains the current add-on functionality, otherwise I might just have to stop updating it.

[Dusty Gozongas]

No update has presented itself here yet but by the look of it this will be the final push for me to switch to Opera.

In the meantime, the only option you'll have is to use Firefox ESR, (based on Firefox 52) which will keep you in the loop security-wise until 2018.

[edit] Firefox ESR or here

[Dusty Gozongas]

So... installed the update and pretty much every thing I have installed is LEGACY here too.

May as well grab the bull by the horns and uninstall the vast majority of my add-ons to see how disagreeable this situation is. It may well transpire that add-on writers need this kick up the arse, so I'll give it as long as it takes to piss me right off.

[olliebean]

Yeah, looking at my list I can see a handful that probably will be updated, at least four essentials that definitely won't be because the functionality doesn't exist in the new add-on framework, a couple more that won't be because they're abandonware, and a couple more that I think already have been but I'm using old versions because the newer versions either lack the full functionality or are just way more laggy.

The abandonware might be replaced by new add-ons once the old ones no longer work; the lagginess I could probably live with but would certainly make sticking with Firefox a less attractive option. The real deal-killer is the reduced functionality.

I don't know if these changes are going to have the effect Mozilla want them to have. ISTM they're going after the Chrome market, when from comments I've read the main reason people are still using Firefox is because of what distinguishes it from Chrome, in particular what is possible with add-ons. And removing large chunks of that functionality can't be a good move, can it?

[Blumf]

I'm just hoping someone will produce a branch of Firefox that retains the current add-on functionality, otherwise I might just have to stop updating it.

https://www.palemoon.org/

[Zetetic]

The problem is there are certain very useful functions that are impossible to implement under the new system. For example, anything that changes the UI,

TabCenter involves a fairly big change the UI and isn't Legacy.

Edit: But it also appears to require XUL-type stuff. Perhaps it's just special-cased because it's part of the 'Test Pilot' programme?

[imitationleather]

Whats the reasoning, is it a security thing?


I still find it a bit weird people use firefox, its absolutely dropped like a stone over the last few years. Its like learning someone still has a black and white telly.

At Shelter they use Internet Explorer. Every time I go in I have to have how to open stuff explained to me because nothing on it makes any kind of coherent sense in the modern world of computers. It's like being your Nan but in reverse. Like how it would be really confusing for a 17 year old to use a car that you have to wind up at the front before it starts.

[olliebean]

https://www.palemoon.org/

Yeah, in theory, but in practice it's strayed too far from the Firefox code it was originally based on, and consequently there are now too many compatibility issues with add-ons that I use.

[olliebean]

Following up on this, it appears there are web extension versions of a number of add-ons that aren't showing up in the search on addons.mozilla.org. So they exist, but there's no way to find them unless you happen across a link on another site. Top marks, Mozilla.

(e.g. Navigate Up has https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/navigate-up-we/, SiteDelta has https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/sitedelta-watch/ - neither of which show up in searches on addons.mozilla.org. And, incidentally, both of which have limitations compared to the original extensions.)

[hewantstolurkatad]

How's the new browser perform though? I don't really have any must use add ons outside of a few developer tools and I'll probably stick to Chrome for most of that stuff.

[Zetetic]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/search/?q=Navigate+Up&appver=&platform=windows shows Navigate Up WE as the first result for me, now.

[olliebean]

Yes, it seems to be finding them now. It wasn't when I posted previously.

I had a go at v58 (the current nightly build) earlier, and it's definitely faster loading pages - much faster with some (although it still struggles with Netflix. Actually every browser I've tried struggles with Netflix, but Firefox struggles more than most, even with v58.) Apart from page loading times, though, it still felt faster to use when I switched back to v54. On facebook for example, the initial page load is quicker in v58, but not when I interact with it, e.g. clicking on "See more" for a truncated post there is a noticeable lag in v58 before the rest of the post appears, and no such lag in v54.

And I just got this in a reply to an add-on review I wrote, in which I suggested adding a button to invoke the sidebar:

- Unfortunately, web extensions are not allowed to programmatically open a sidebar ("sidebars can only be opened by the user"), so the SiteDelta toolbar icon cannot do it. However you can use the default "Sidebars" button available in Firefox (but not shown in the toolbar by default) to toggle the sidebar

Great. But opening a specific sidebar, if it doesn't happen to be the one you had open last, takes three separate clicks, whereas having a dedicated button takes only one. Another example of basic functionality being removed.

[olliebean]

Turns out v54 without extensions loads pages just as fast as v58. The only reason v58 was loading them faster was because it had disabled most of my extensions.

I guess I need to work out which extension(s) are slowing me down, and see if I can do without them.

[canadagoose]

How old are your computers? I'm using a 2011 ThinkPad T420 and I can't say Chrome or Firefox seem particularly slow at anything. Firefox 57 does feel more responsive, though, although it wasn't awful before.

[olliebean]

2008. Turns out the main culprit was Windscribe, a handy VPN that I turn on fairly frequently to access geo-blocked websites and videos, but most of the time I have it turned off and it's clearly not been very well programmed as it massively slows page load times even when turned off. I'll have to open the add-ons page and manually enable/disable it when I want it, instead, which is a pain.

[Dusty Gozongas]

I've been giving the portable version of FF57 an occasional try and if I'm going to be honest I'm at the point where I'm happy to upgrade from 56.

All of the (small number of) add-ons that I regard as essential to my requirements are either updated or have a decent or better (i.e. supported now!) webkit alternative - or are built in and tweakable _{*i'm looking at you, All-in-One Sidebar*}

So yeah. S'okay.

[canadagoose]

Is anyone else having bother with Google Play Music in Firefox 57 (beta)? It keeps stopping for a second and starting again. It seems fine in Chrome and Opera.

[hermitical]

All of the (small number of) add-ons that I regard as essential to my requirements are either updated or have a decent or better (i.e. supported now!) webkit alternative - or are built in and tweakable _{*i'm looking at you, All-in-One Sidebar*}

I can't really tell what you are saying about AiOS? I see it isn't going to be updated for 57

[hermitical]

Oh hello, my avatar is back, have photobucket swallowed their pride?

[Zetetic]

No.

[Dusty Gozongas]

I can't really tell what you are saying about AiOS? I see it isn't going to be updated for 57

57 has a sidebar menu built in, accessible by a toolbar icon and it can be left or right oriented. No Sidebar Switch though, although I can live without that. It hasn't got all the bells and whistles that AiOS has but I'm all for less add-ons and I didn't use most of AiOS's functionality anyway.

[Sherringford Hovis]

So, it's FUCK YOU FIREFOX day. I've been a Mozilla user - and one-time paid evangelist - since 2002.

The half-dozen elderly and/or hopelessly tech-adverse relatives and neighbours that depend on me to sort their computery shit out will be completely lost and panicky without FF's Roomy Bookmarks Toolbar. I haven't kept up with recent browser trends since fleeing the computing magazine world in 2011 - anyone any idea what the easiest, hassle-free way of bunging up to two-dozen min-icons in an easily accessible place for the hard-of-thinking? I don't mind binning Firefox altogether, frankly.

[Dusty Gozongas]

Drag the Bookmarks icon from the customise list to the toolbar and arrange their bookmark list with the most used sites at the top?  Rename the icons/links as required?

EDIT: Or even simpler, use the built-in Bookmarks Toolbar (which I didn't immediately think of since I don't use it).

EDIT AGAIN: On my monitor, without titles I can get 47 favicons across the Bookmarks Toolbar plus overspill available via the >> menu button on the right hand side of the toolbar.

AND ANOTHER: I just installed Roomy Bookmarks Toolbar on FF 56 and it uses the inbuilt Bookmarks Toolbar (albeit with the option to have more than one line of bookmarks). Due to this, you don't lose the bookmarks from that menu when it's uninstalled but you'll have to manually delete the name of each one via right-click>properties to get it looking tidy again. I'm guessing a couple of dozen favicons isn't going to overspill unless their monitor resolution is particularly dinky - and as I said, there's an icon on the right for any more than Firefox can display across the toolbar.

[Sherringford Hovis]

Cheers, Dusty. These days, I only touch a Windows machine whenever it's somebody else's and there's invariably something wrong with it; I feel a bit silly if it's really that simple - I just instantly thought "OH NOES BOOKMARKS TOOLBAR ICONS GONE AWAY" when I saw the alarming yellow Legacy tab next to most of the things I install when forced to sort out someone else's computer.

[Dusty Gozongas]

See the third edit for a bit more info ^^

:)

[olliebean]

There are things you can put in userchrome.css to get more room for bookmarks, for example this:

Code Select Expand

@namespace url(http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul);

/* Multi-Row Bookmarks Toolbar */
#PersonalToolbar {
  /* Provide room for up to 4 rows at 26px */
  max-height: 104px !important;
}
#PlacesToolbarItems > box {
  display: inline-block !important;
}
#PersonalToolbar #PlacesToolbarItems {
  /* Override hiding */
  overflow-x: visible !important;
  overflow-y: visible !important;
  /* Add a little cushion */
  padding-bottom: 1px;
}
#PersonalToolbar #PlacesToolbarItems .bookmark-item {
  /* Reduce padding on individual bookmarks to fit rows closer together */
  padding-top: 1px !important;
  padding-bottom: 1px !important;
}

will get you up to 4 rows of bookmarks in the bookmarks toolbar. Whilst something like this:

Code Select Expand

@namespace url(http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul);

#personal-bookmarks  toolbarbutton {
margin-left:-2px !important;
margin-right:-2px !important;
}

will squash the bookmarks closer together so you can fit more of them in.

[MojoJojo]

I'm just posting because I've read that lost post about five times because the "new" icon has stuck. And I'm hoping this will shift it.

[olliebean]

I've noticed it does that when the last post has been edited. Must be a bug in the forum software.

Anyway, as you might have inferred I've thrown away my integrity and upgraded to v57. Most of the incompatible add-ons, I've either found newer alternatives for, or managed to reproduce via userchrome tweaks like the ones above, or (in a couple of cases) just bit the bullet and decided I could do without. When it came down to it, the official release (unlike the nightly I previously tried) is just so much faster than before that it makes up for the annoyances.

I've kept a portable older version around, though, for the rare occasion that I want to use the one remaining incompatible add-on that I couldn't bring myself to jettison.