Anxiety (another CaB mental illness thread)

[Shay Chaise]

Morrisons just makes me think of men's hoops now, which causes me a great deal of anxiety. I always go to Sainsbury's now, even though it's a longer drive.

BJ, cunt colleagues are the worst, alongside cunt neighbours. I tend to fantasise about running them all through with a samurai sword and reciting the vile threats I would make to them. That might sound a bit mad but it's a temporary relief when I get annoyed by these people. I push it to absurd extremes which helps put the situation in perspective, and I can often laugh at the actual state of play a bit more.

The caffeine thing may only be very minor but I cut it out about nine months ago, for like a month, and I haven't felt so at ease in years. My sleep drastically improved in duration and quality. I'm just complacent and shit, so I got back into hammering coffee. It's only bad for me, quite silly really.

[Jake Thingray]

Blue Jam, I do apologise if this is no help whatsoever, but my problems with anxiety, or "nerves" as it was called until I was in my mid-20's, often stem from being around people, and desperately wanting the whole thing to be over until I can be alone again and feel safe. Obviously it manifests itself in a different way in your situation, but please try to remind yourself it's not the worst thing can happen, and is not a life and death situation. This may sound daft but on the day I started my first job, I really thought I was going to have a heart attack and was genuinely shaking, Casablanca had its umpteenth showing on telly that night and telling myself "You mustn't die, Casablanca's on later!" and recalling bits of it somehow got me calmed down, although once at work I was too frightened to look anyone in the eye or take my coat off. Going outdoors should help as others have said, even looking at the sky and the tops of houses can remind you there's more to life than what's bugging you.

[Ambient Sheep]

The caffeine thing may only be very minor but I cut it out about nine months ago, for like a month, and I haven't felt so at ease in years. My sleep drastically improved in duration and quality.

How did you get past the caffeine withdrawal headache, if I may ask?  (That's if you get one.)  Three or four times now over the years I've tried to give up caffeine, but every time I have to give in within about 72 hours, due to the nasty withdrawal symptoms -- mainly a shitty nagging headache that just Will Not Go Away (except by adding caffeine).

I don't think it's a psychological thing either.  Once I even did it by accident, was off work and wondered why three days into my break I had such a dreadful headache.  Took me a while to realise that due to a strange combination of circumstances ('cos I normally have at least one morning coffee even on a day off) I'd had no caffeine.  Had a cup, it sorted it almost instantly.

Hope you improve soon, Blue Jam.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Knocking booze and caffeine on the head definitely helps, as does getting out of the house. Going for a wee walk around the block and seeing other people go about their business is comforting. Your world can shrink when you feel extremely anxious. Your world is bigger and better than those four walls.

Take care, Blue Jam. I hope you feel better soon.

[Buelligan]

Echo the drink and caffeine advice.  Also, remember that your brain, expecially the type of brain used to looking for pattern and finding links, tends to do that with your own shit too (and sometimes does you right up like a kipper). 

I had a very upsetting cat-loss scenario recently - around the same time a friend of mine experienced a bewildering series of communications from a distant colleague which seemed to involve the love of her life - both of us, in our pain, started spinning the stuff we did know into perfectly reasonable, believable, logical, sane, utterly mad, deluded, extremely disturbing, ideas about those events. 

After our madness had abated a little, we sat down together with a cup of tea and decided that, from that day hence, we would only take into consideration cast iron facts - no more linking with presumptions, no more leaps of imagination (no matter how likely those explanations).  Established facts only from now on - maybe you could use this to re-frame your feelings about those colleagues and that might help you, dunno. 

Very much hope you feel happier soon though, you really are an excellent egg.

[Blue Jam]

When you return is there any way you could sit down with your two colleagues and try and improve the situation?

Probably not- telling them "Look, please could you be a bit nicer to me?" would probably have the opposite of the intended effect. They're young and cocky and I can take some comfort in knowing that they're both heading for a major fall, but it's not much comfort. They need to learn a bit of humility but like a lot of people in science they're going to have to learn it the hard way.

New research groups can be a good place to work, because you have the opportunity to shape its culture and get recognition for doing some of the definitive work in the area...

As legendary data thief and casual racist James Watson once said in his advice to young scientists, "work with someone young". It's true that new groups are exciting places to work, and that young PIs often have fresh ideas and aren't as set in their ways as professors, but their ambition often outstrips their funding and other resources.

I'm guessing that most of the pressure is coming from a short, fixed-term contract, and the need to have something to show at the end of it... It's not always obvious that these bosses positions are also precarious

Yep and yep... limited funding for me, and a boss who isn't in a tenured position. I don't want to quit a postdoc without getting a paper out of it, and I have a boss in a vulnerable position so I feel a huge responsibility not to fuck things up. This makes me even more angry at my colleagues who seem more interested in "winning" personal squabbles than the actual science, and are being hugely irresponsible.

I may PM you, cheers for the offer...

Blue Jam, I do apologise if this is no help whatsoever, but my problems with anxiety, or "nerves" as it was called until I was in my mid-20's, often stem from being around people, and desperately wanting the whole thing to be over until I can be alone again and feel safe. Obviously it manifests itself in a different way in your situation, but please try to remind yourself it's not the worst thing can happen, and is not a life and death situation. This may sound daft but on the day I started my first job, I really thought I was going to have a heart attack and was genuinely shaking, Casablanca had its umpteenth showing on telly that night and telling myself "You mustn't die, Casablanca's on later!" and recalling bits of it somehow got me calmed down, although once at work I was too frightened to look anyone in the eye or take my coat off. Going outdoors should help as others have said, even looking at the sky and the tops of houses can remind you there's more to life than what's bugging you.

A lot of that doesn't apply to me but it's a great post all the same, cheers. In my case the anxiety isn't an ongoing, long-term thing and I don't have any kind of anxiety disorder, it's a one-off that has stemmed from a lot of shitty things happening at once. Having a couple of weeks off may be the best thing for me right now.

As for avoiding people, I know some people "recharge" by being alone, but I'm the opposite and during bad times I need to be around people. Mr Jam and his family have been wonderful, I've got some friends coming to visit, and at work I've found some of the staff social events have been really valuable for reminding me that other people are in the same boat.

Getting outdoors is a plan I have too- fortunately I live in Scotland and there is a lot of outdoors to explore round here.

Echo the drink and caffeine advice.

I had a few drinks yesterday as it was my birthday but now I may try knocking the alcohol and Diet Coke on the head for a bit. It may not help as I've not noticed any big difference when I've done it in the past, but it can't hurt. One problem is that two of the things I like to do to relax are taking my Kindle to the pub (preferably one with friendly dogs running about the place) and cooking a nice meal and then serving and eating it with a nice bottle of wine, and both of these involve booze. I'm off to pick up some Caffeine-Free Diet Coke now and I may pick up some dealcoholised wine and beer while I'm at it- as with decaff coffee, alcohol-free "booze" is now a lot more palatable than it used to be, and it's also easier to find in supermarkets. I've got some decent matcha green tea here too so I may get back into the matcha lattes.

Thanks everyone, and you all look after yourselves too xxx

[canadagoose]

Sorry to hear you're having problems with anxiety, Blue Jam. It's the absolute pits when you've got colleagues you don't get on with (or, rather, who don't get on with you). Let us know if anything you try works, or if things get better anyway.

[Smeraldina Rima]

I think you've done the sensible thing in taking a break and I hope you don't end up returning to the same stresses at work. I've had problems with anxiety and trying to find medication that doesn't bring too many side effects. A few years ago I started to get vocal tics and I think it was a result of the ongoing stress that I wasn't able to remove myself from properly at the right time. I don't expect them to go away now that they're here as the ongoing soundtrack. Similarly, I think anxiety can develop into some unhelpful patterns and rituals after a long time so there's another reason to address it in the way that you have, but that will probably have to involve something changing about the working arrangement too - maybe not. I'm not sure if music has been mentioned, playing - even if badly, if mainly for holding something and taking yourself out of yourself in some way - or listening. Also, I wonder if there are mental health services at the university for researchers as well as for students.

[Cheesewogg]

When I stopped eating meat (I kept on with eggs and dairy) my depression began to really diminish. The supplements given to animals in farms and shit fish eat in the sea is majorly psychologically and physically harmful to us. Awful stuff.

[Kishi the Bad Lampshade]

I know this will make some people mutter "shit for cunts" but a friend of mine highly recommends vaping for anxiety, even at the 0-to-very-low-nicotine level. Her reasoning is that it forces you to take deep breaths without really focusing on the idea of 'doing breathing exercises', plus having some sort of psychological crutch. Like a fruit-flavoured inhaler.

[Funcrusher]

The only vaguely useful thing I have to add is to go a bit careful with cutting out caffeine. I had a panic attack a few weeks back partly due to too many cups of tea in a day, and decided to go cold turkey, not realising that caffeine withdrawal was a thing, and had a week of pretty deep depression before realising what was going on. Best to cut down a bit to begin with and taper off it rather than just stop. I'm just being a bit more careful about my intake and having the odd cup of decaf instead.

[Glebe]

I've been wracked with anxiety since I was a child, and have kind of lived on my nerves since forever. Antidepressants and talking through things have helped, but it's a daily battle really.

The only vaguely useful thing I have to add is to go a bit careful with cutting out caffeine. I had a panic attack a few weeks back partly due to too many cups of tea in a day, and decided to go cold turkey, not realising that caffeine withdrawal was a thing, and had a week of pretty deep depression before realising what was going on. Best to cut down a bit to begin with and taper off it rather than just stop. I'm just being a bit more careful about my intake and having the odd cup of decaf instead.

I used to drink gallons of tea but have cut it down to pretty much one cup a day. There's decaf in the press if I fancy a late-night cuppa.

[poo]

Walk, run, cycle. As hard as you can for as long as you can. Get outside and breath deep. Chuck some dumbbells around. Get the the seratonin going.

[pancreas]

Get a friend to dress up as a rapist and chase you around the park.

[Mr Brightside]

And how does one 'dress up as a rapist', pancreas?

[pancreas]

Thick glasses, greasy hair, string vest, y-fronts, nipple tassels? I'm just guessing, of course---I have no personal experience of doing this in real life.

[Blue Jam]

?

[zomgmouse]

I don't drink alcohol or coffee and don't smoke. Used to drink (black) tea but have cut that out now in favour of green teas and peppermints and other herbal concoctions. Rooibos is a brilliant one of you want something with no caffeine but a great flavour. Anyway the point of the above is that even without those common substances I'm a ball of mangled knives. I've recently started going to a psychologist after years and years of putting it off. I'm hoping it will help in some regard. Finding out ways to stave it off or deal with it when it comes as well as figuring out what in my life has this effect on me. That sort of thing.

One thing I definitely need to do more of is psychical exercise. I'm putting. That said, I know I was, to quote anxiety in band form Devo, a really big mess when I did regular exercise as well so I'm not sure what it would do. Better than not doing it I suppose. Maybe I just need a short break for now. I'll get one, kind of, in a couple of weeks, though it won't be a real break. Most importantly I think I just need to give myself the space to step back and reassesses things as a couple of people have posted. I'm putting myself through a le of unnecessary stress.

[Zetetic]

Find something really important to worry about.

[Smeraldina Rima]

One thing I definitely need to do more of is psychical exercise. I'm putting.

A good start but the driving green will do more for your core.

[zomgmouse]

Find something really important to worry about.

I have. Myself.

[zomgmouse]

A good start but the driving green will do more for your core.

Shit who knows what was going on in that sentence anymore. I think I was going to say "I'm putting it off"? Let's go with that.

[gib]

And how does one 'dress up as a rapist', pancreas?

really slowly, i watch him do it

[mothman]

Psychical exercise?

[Glebe]

Psychical exercise?

[Blue Jam]

Another incredibly valuable thing to do is to work out your triggers. I don't mean those 'exceptional' things like colleagues who are arseholes, no matter how fucking awful they may be, but your everyday triggers. For me - and linked to my first set of advice its mainly tiredness and hunger.

While the anxiety isn't an ongoing problem, I have already done something like this for another more long-term problem of mine, namely being a grumpy irritable bastard. I get really mardy and find it difficult to concentrate if I'm hungry, and eating carby things just gives me a blood sugar high followed by an unbearable sugar crash, so I try and avoid eating anything too carby at work. Instead of having a big lunch and nothing else during the day I'll eat proteinaceous things, and eat little and often- a protein shake, some nuts, one of those protein yogurts which are suddenly everywhere, those "easy peeler" oranges which are really filling thanks to all the fibre. While it would be much cheaper to buy a baguette at the start of the week and get five sandwiches out of it, it would also be a false economy.

Also since about May this year I've been trying to be a bit more healthy anyway- drinking less, eating less sugar and fewer carby things, doing more yoga and trying to lose weight gradually- I've been losing about a kilo a month, nothing drastic but it feels like the changes I've made are sustainable. Right now I'm still unpacking things from the move and today I found the bathroom scales and noted that not only have I reached my target weight, I'm 0.7kgs below it. Lugging heavy boxes around for the move probably helped- maybe I should quit science, buy a van and join the Men With Ven, it seems like quite a nice life.

I think you've done the sensible thing in taking a break and I hope you don't end up returning to the same stresses at work... Also, I wonder if there are mental health services at the university for researchers as well as for students.

I've been referred to the staff counselling service and am waiting for my initial appointment, they seem pretty good. Also I'm starting to think that the break itself could have been just what I needed. Things should start to slow down a bit for the rest of the year and I may be alright...

Cheers again everyone xxx

[zomgmouse]

Psychical exercise?

Yeah I'm bloody Matilda mate. Watch out or I'll move a book for you.

Fucking teach me to type out garbled shite just after waking up. Incoherent as a fidgmanbewtry.

[Buelligan]

I just took myself a bit of psychical exercise up on the mountain, found and ate some late figs, stole a few forgotten grapes, picked some berries and olives, the sun poured down like honey into my head and washed away all the sea urchins.  It was OK, would do again.

[ASFTSN]

I just took myself a bit of psychical exercise up on the mountain, found and ate some late figs, stole a few forgotten grapes, picked some berries and olives, the sun poured down like honey into my head and washed away all the sea urchins.  It was OK, would do again.

I don't know about anyone else, but I think reading this meticulously curated slice of your bliss and ease made my anxiety and depression a little bit worse.

[pancreas]

I don't know about anyone else, but I think reading this meticulously curated slice of your bliss and ease made my anxiety and depression a little bit worse.

That's glückschmerz for you.