Author Topic: Morrissey continues.  (Read 52355 times)

thecuriousorange

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2017, 08:35:56 PM »
Oh for fuck sake. There's a chance it was some type of clumsy "joke"? Shame, when the recent single was OK. What are you doing Mozzer?

Edit: New page strikes again.

DukeDeMondo

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2017, 08:38:22 PM »
Also, it's a bit rich, him complaining about people not reading the news.

Although I suppose he did say stop watching the news. He didn't say anything about reading it. To be fair.

purlieu

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2017, 09:11:37 PM »
Oh for fuck sake. There's a chance it was some type of clumsy "joke"?
No, he's spoken in support of UKIP in the past, and also made out that Farage is some sort of non-elite political outsider who's here to save us from the usual toffs in power. He's completely, staggeringly out of touch, and revealing how much of a cunt he is in the process. I've been unable to enjoy any Moz or Smiths for a while now.

the ouch cube

  • you've got moomins on yr breath
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2017, 09:26:46 PM »
People don't change, they just become more and more like themselves.

See also Billy Corgan, Richard Dawkins, etc. etc.

Funcrusher

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2017, 09:36:04 PM »
He's a bit of a bulbous salutation these days.

DukeDeMondo

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2017, 09:41:07 PM »
He's turned me into a massive fucking hypocrite, I know that.

"Oh I can't believe you're watching that / listening to that / reading that, I don't care how good it is, their worldview is fucking repugnant, you should be ashamed of yourself!"

"Viva Hate."

"That's different."

High horse is knackered.

JoeyBananaduck

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2017, 09:43:05 PM »
Entirely in keeping with the tack that bellend has taken all his life.

THANK YOU. I'm sick of this 'oh he's let us all down' bollocks. When did he ever seem like a remotely nice person, exactly? Were there no racially dubious lyrics in The Smiths? He's the same arsehole he ever was. You grew up, he didn't. Deal with it. He is, has been, and will continue to be a nasty shite who happened to write lyrics for a few good Johnny Marr songs.

Vodka Margarine

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2017, 10:42:38 PM »
I think to your average devotee he's like an old mate who says really dodgy and hateful things but they always just laugh it off and say "aaah never change, edgy Steven!" because they can't bring themselves to entertain the notion that it's likely he really does mean all that shit. Moz meanwhile doesn't worry at all because he knows there will always be a sizeable backdrop of blind hero worship to give him a free pass forever. I often wonder if anything would dramatically change if he started interfering with kids for a hobby.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2017, 10:56:32 PM »
So, this staying in bed single.

More than a touch of Jonathan King's comeback work don't you think?

Nice arrangement at first, but uninspired after the first chorus,  a conceited lyric and rather lazy vocal performance that was rather bellowing.

Neomod

  • Oh my genitals | I'm a janitor
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2017, 11:25:05 PM »
At least Johnny's still sound, eh.

Mr Banlon

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2017, 11:29:34 PM »
Irish Blood, Second Generation Drawbridge Mentality

Brundle-Fly

  • I'm so Avant-garden variety
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2017, 05:54:56 PM »
He can't really placate UKIPers much either seeing how much he hates the royal family or the idea of tucking into a nice Sunday roast in Nigel's Farage's favourite country pub.

DukeDeMondo

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2017, 06:04:02 PM »
Were there no racially dubious lyrics in The Smiths?

I can't really think of any, off the top of my head. Only thing that comes to mind is Rusholme Ruffians, which I've heard described as "a bit fucking dodgy" by people who know much more about the history of that area than I do.

As far as I'm aware there's nothing really troubling coming out of him, far as his songs are concerned, until Viva Hate.

Also I gave National Front Disco another spin today, in light of all of this. A song I've spent hours of my life defending. I think I still would have a pop at defending it in context, but he's made it a lot more difficult to do so. Whatever it is, it's certainly the last thing I would ever want to hear him performing nowadays.

Brundle-Fly

  • I'm so Avant-garden variety
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2017, 06:58:05 PM »
I always took The National Front Disco as Morrissey trying to understand the headspace of some disenfranchised NF bloke rather than championing the actual cause. He was playing with fire with English for the English lyric though. What is it about?

Bengali In Platorms was not very inviting though (the horrible way he spits "embrace you" rolling his r's and how he sometimes sings Bengali, you can almost picture him do a comedy Indian head wobble in the studio) but I always liked the melody.  Asian Rut seemed a bit more sympathetic towards second generation Asians though.

I don't know, I've only ever been a casual fan since the days he used to encourage shoplifting. 

Thomas

  • well they do all sixteen dances.
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2017, 08:24:59 PM »
I always took The National Front Disco as Morrissey trying to understand the headspace of some disenfranchised NF bloke rather than championing the actual cause. He was playing with fire with English for the English lyric though. What is it about?

Yeah, I always considered it a character piece about the character David. When Morrissey sings in the first person, he asks 'Where is our boy? Ah, we've lost our boy'. I supposed the 'England for the English' refrain was in inverted commas, or a moment of free indirect style on behalf of David. It's probably deliberately ambiguous, flirtatious as he was with edgy, bruised imagery in the '90s.

I also reckon that David became Dagenham Dave. He'll do another song about him soon, and it'll be shit.

His politics seem very muddled. He decries voting as 'supporting the process' and recommends that we avoid the news, but pays attention to and cares about the UKIP leadership - enough to work it into a rare bit of televised stage patter. So that's UKIP, described by Morrissey-favourite Farage as the 'true inheritors' of Thatcherism, the foundation of the modern political 'process' Mozzer seemingly wants to liberate himself from ('The rich must profit and get richer, and the poor must stay poor', he agreeably bemoans on World Peace).

Instead of spending days in bed, balancing those vagueries inside his greying head, he might at least spend a few minutes penning some passable lyrics. I fear we heard the last of them a while ago.

Smeraldina Rima

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2017, 09:05:56 PM »
What's the dodgy racial aspect/history of "Rusholme Ruffians"? I'd agree with Brundle-Fly and Thomas about "The National Front Disco," and DukeDeMondo by the sound of it - I agree with everyone. I think one of the successes of the lyric is the insistence that we should all know exactly why we've lost David because he's told us, while we're still unsure about what those things he's told us really mean to him.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2017, 09:11:39 PM »
It's worth for balance considering the excellent lyrics on politics Morrissey could write, for instance Interesting Drug, which is a fantastic riposte to right-wing moralising over drug taking by exposing what a shit hopeless life people were being offered.

"You wonder why we're only half-ashamed because enough is 'too much', well look around, can you blame us?"

When someone can write stuff like that then of course their fans will cling on in the hope those times come around again.

Morrissey is clearly not a socialist but he does seem to have an 'old left' mentality in some respects, a nostalgia for working class life and a dislike of establishment institutions that work against the working class. Yes, he appears to see Asian communities as an other, which is quite sad and pathetic on his part. His stylistic and musical affectations towards the 50s and early 60s seem to be consistent with that.

Personally I tune out of that, hope he writes one or two good tunes every few years and slags the royal family off with the same joyous cocksucking glee he always has done.


kngen

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2017, 09:20:18 PM »
Bengali In Platorms was not very inviting though (the horrible way he spits "embrace you" rolling his r's and how he sometimes sings Bengali, you can almost picture him do a comedy Indian head wobble in the studio) but I always liked the melody.

'Life is hard enough when you belong here' was pretty telling, I thought.

DukeDeMondo

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2017, 09:30:54 PM »
What's the dodgy racial aspect/history of "Rusholme Ruffians"?

Well, what I was told - and again, I know next to nothing about the place, and may be setting myself up for a slapping here - was that Rusholme was primarily associated with Manchester's Asian community, and that the tune is an early demonstration of Moz's apparent anti-Asian leanings. Apparently the NME brought it into the discussion around the time of the Madstock carry on. This man on Flickr says as much also, although he doesn't sound like he buys the argument: https://www.flickr.com/photos/23961285@N06/2532138030

I dunno if that's at all fair or not, but it's the only thing I could think of when JBD suggested there may have been some dodgy stuff going on back then too.

Smeraldina Rima

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #79 on: October 03, 2017, 10:27:34 PM »
Cheers. I wondered if there was something to do with the gangs at funfairs. Think the man on Flickr is right that it's all about the fairs, although the title isn't very helpful given what you've pointed out.

Neomod

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #80 on: October 03, 2017, 10:40:27 PM »
Morrissey is clearly not a socialist but he does seem to have an 'old left' mentality in some respects, a nostalgia for working class life and a dislike of establishment institutions that work against the working class. Yes, he appears to see Asian communities as an other, which is quite sad and pathetic on his part. His stylistic and musical affectations towards the 50s and early 60s seem to be consistent with that.

This.

Brundle-Fly

  • I'm so Avant-garden variety
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2017, 10:45:08 PM »
Tried to find Barry Adamson's From Rusholme With Love (1992) online but aptly found this namesake track online by Mint Royale (1999)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhJyhZsNh6A

Sonya Echobelly and Aki Fund<Da >Mental discuss the issue in 1992. Dreary carousel.

NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpnXAI9Gflg




Thomas

  • well they do all sixteen dances.
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2017, 10:59:10 PM »
I dunno if that's at all fair or not, but it's the only thing I could think of when JBD suggested there may have been some dodgy stuff going on back then too.

EDIT - deleted, as I couldn't find any verification.

JoeyBananaduck

  • Blame It On Mom
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2017, 12:49:44 AM »
Saying, however euphemistically, that a rich, aging media personality who openly yearns for the days of pretty white people dominating culture, sees Asians as 'other' (what, invaders perhaps?), is unwilling to move forward into the current day, and thinks - despite being no longer working class in any way shape or form, that he knows what's good for the society he long since abandoned - sounds almost like you're describing a white supremacist. Or a Trump. Or a Piers Morgan. Weird huh?

Also Asians are a subspecies and if you eat a Big Mac you're as bad as a child molester. "I'll cancel the gig if people are cooking meat nearby, so there. If you are willing to meet my terms you can find me reclining railing against the establishment from the comfort of my leather love seat in a £2500 a night room at the Dorchester. If I'm not there I'll be sat in the bar that serves meat enjoying a gin and tonic on the suede couch." He's a nice guy, not a snotty hypocritical deluded arsehole at all.

Brundle-Fly

  • I'm so Avant-garden variety
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2017, 01:14:58 AM »
Saying, however euphemistically, that a rich, aging media personality who openly yearns for the days of pretty white people dominating culture, sees Asians as 'other' (what, invaders perhaps?), is unwilling to move forward into the current day, and thinks - despite being no longer working class in any way shape or form, that he knows what's good for the society he long since abandoned - sounds almost like you're describing a white supremacist. Or a Trump. Or a Piers Morgan. Weird huh?

Also Asians are a subspecies and if you eat a Big Mac you're as bad as a child molester. "I'll cancel the gig if people are cooking meat nearby, so there. If you are willing to meet my terms you can find me reclining railing against the establishment from the comfort of my leather love seat in a £2500 a night room at the Dorchester. If I'm not there I'll be sat in the bar that serves meat enjoying a gin and tonic on the suede couch." He's a nice guy, not a snotty hypocritical deluded arsehole at all.

White supremacist? Oh please.

He's just a capricious, attention seeking, dysfunctional, old pop star, living up to Bigmouth Strikes Again. And I don't even particularly like him myself.

JoeyBananaduck

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2017, 01:17:11 AM »
Fair enough. He's been around 40 years, find me an instance of him saying something positive about somebody who wasn't white. Preferably something so glowing that it counters 'you can't help but think of the Chinese as a sub-species'. His nationalism is obvious and he makes no secret of it. He apparently takes an active interest in UKIP. If it was anyone else people would find it pretty clear, I reckon.

How many passes does this guy get, and why? Fuck's sake.

Brundle-Fly

  • I'm so Avant-garden variety
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2017, 01:35:04 AM »
Fair enough. He's been around 40 years, find me an instance of him saying something positive about somebody who wasn't white. Preferably something so glowing that it counters 'you can't help but think of the Chinese as a sub-species'.

How many passes does this guy get, and why? Fuck's sake.

I gather he only thinks the Chinese are a sub-species because they eat anything made of fleshy sentience: ie:- cows, chickens, cats, rats, bats, dogs, gerbils covered with pig spunk in a bap? A bap made of amoebas. He hates that.

He genuinely claimed in the NME that his favourite album in 1997 was Cornershop's When I was Born For The 7th Time and apparently a  fan of 1960's ska and soul, including these on his compilation album, Under The Influence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G14Ny5RIkJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G14Ny5RIkJs

And he married Patti Boulaye in 1999.

newbridge

  • Endless Summer of George
Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2017, 04:15:27 AM »
This latest development makes me somewhat less optimistic about the lyrical content of the not one but two Israel-themed song titles on the new album.

Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2017, 09:24:29 AM »
Well, what I was told - and again, I know next to nothing about the place, and may be setting myself up for a slapping here - was that Rusholme was primarily associated with Manchester's Asian community, and that the tune is an early demonstration of Moz's apparent anti-Asian leanings. Apparently the NME brought it into the discussion around the time of the Madstock carry on. This man on Flickr says as much also, although he doesn't sound like he buys the argument: https://www.flickr.com/photos/23961285@N06/2532138030

I dunno if that's at all fair or not, but it's the only thing I could think of when JBD suggested there may have been some dodgy stuff going on back then too.

It's worth knowing that for decades, before the population of Rusholme became to be composed of predominantly Asian immigrants in the 1990s, it was home to one of the largest Irish immigrant communities in Manchester. So I don't think there is any anti-Asian sentiment in this song, it's more of a romanticised look back to the Irish working class Rusholme of Morrissey's youth.

DukeDeMondo

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Re: Morrissey continues.
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2017, 03:15:01 PM »
Thanks for that, V_B, that casts the thing in a whole different light altogether. If that's the case, your reading makes far more sense than the NME's reading, especially considering Meat Is Murder came out in 1985.