Morrissey continues.

[Benevolent Despot]

I gather he only thinks the Chinese are a sub-species...

It's called a joke.

Fair enough. He's been around 40 years, find me an instance of him saying something positive about somebody who wasn't white. Preferably something so glowing that it counters 'you can't help but think of the Chinese as a sub-species'. His nationalism is obvious and he makes no secret of it. He apparently takes an active interest in UKIP. If it was anyone else people would find it pretty clear, I reckon.

What the hell. One of the increasingly tiresome trends on CaB and in the wider media is the racialisation of all discourse and reality. Not that it should matter, but to placate your highly racialised (racist) mind, he dated an Arab woman in the U.S. around the time of 9/11. It's in the autobiog and everything. Describing her he notes that her family were political refugees from Iran. From the ideology that Anne Marie Waters vocally opposes. So I guess there is some consistency after all.

I'm going to be naming all the racialists "race conjurers" from now on, in their never-ending quest to make racial division manifest through wicked incantations and spells.

[daf]

he dated a woman

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

It's called a joke.

What the hell. One of the increasingly tiresome trends on CaB and in the wider media is the racialisation of all discourse and reality. Not that it should matter, but to placate your highly racialised (racist) mind, he dated an Arab woman in the U.S. around the time of 9/11. It's in the autobiog and everything. Describing her he notes that her family were political refugees from Iran. From the ideology that Anne Marie Waters vocally opposes. So I guess there is some consistency after all.

I'm going to be naming all the racialists "race conjurers" from now on, in their never-ending quest to make racial division manifest through wicked incantations and spells.

Are you a lunatic?

[Custard]

Welcome back, TC!

[Benevolent Despot]

So he says...

[Benevolent Despot]

Are you a lunatic?

Spam.

Welcome back, TC!

Spam.

Spam.

Spam?

[Brundle-Fly]

It's called a joke.

Are you a lunatic?

A Morrissey fanatic, perhaps? Same thing.

[Dr Rock]

I was out as soon as Bengali In Platforms.

Bengali, Bengali
Bengali, Bengali
No no no
He does not want to depress you
Oh no no no no no
He only wants to impress you
Oh...
Bengali in platforms
He only wants to embrace your culture
And to be your friend forever
Forever
Bengali, Bengali
Bengali, Bengali
Oh, shelve your Western plans
And understand
That life is hard enough when you belong here
A silver-studded rim that glistens
And an ankle-star that...blinds me
A lemon sole so very high
Which only reminds me; to tell you
Break the news gently
Break the news to him gently
"Shelve your plans; shelve your plans, shelve them"
Bengali, Bengali
It's the touchy march of time that binds you
Don't blame me
Don't hate me
Just because I'm the one to tell you
That life is hard enough when you belong here
That life is hard enough when you belong here
Oh...
Shelve your Western plans
Oh...
Shelve your Western plans
'Cause life is hard enough when you belong
Life is hard enough when you belong here
Oh...
Shelve your Western plans
Oh...
Shelve your best friends
'Cause life is hard when you belong here
Oh...
Life is hard enough when you belong



FUCK. OFF.

It's not a song from someone else's POV, which is always a good get out clause.

Then there was much more to follow. Pity, but fuck off anyway Morrissey. I'll still listen to his good tracks and Smiths ones though, just like I still listen to Gary Glitter.

[Brundle-Fly]

It's actually about his mate, railway ticket inspector, Ben Gourley who was trying to remake The Magnificent Seven on Super 8 back in 1975.

[Benevolent Despot]

A Morrissey fanatic, perhaps? Same thing.

*Dismissive spam*. (the 2nd-most tiresome trend on CaB).

Returned with sincerity.

[Benevolent Despot]

I was out as soon as Bengali In Platforms.



FUCK. OFF.

It's not a song from someone else's POV, which is always a good get out clause.

Then there was much more to follow. Pity, but fuck off anyway Morrissey. I'll still listen to his good tracks and Smiths ones though, just like I still listen to Gary Glitter.

Few if any of his songs are directly autobiographical. They are sung in a dissociated first-person about whatever the topic of the song may be. He's an artist singing a character - aside from the lyrics and the style, this is pretty evident in any interview where a boring interviewer presses the question of the meaning of the lyrics as it pertains to him. "The critics don't get it" was his usual high-and-mighty reply - and they don't. An art critic who doesn't understand the purpose of art is one who "doesn't get it". Is Morrissey a misogynist for singing "pretty girls make graves"? You know the answer.

Keep squeezing that stone, maybe some blood will come out.

[Brundle-Fly]

Blimey, who's pulled your chain? I was actually defending Mozza earlier.

[Benevolent Despot]

Yeah, but you called me a fanatic and lunatic apropos of I don't know.

[Brundle-Fly]

Yeah, but you called me a fanatic and lunatic apropos of I don't know.

You just sounded like somebody who thinks Morrissey is beyond reproach and the sort used to write angry letters to the NME and MM during the early nineties. As you say, "It was a joke".  I don't know you.

[Dr Rock]

Few if any of his songs are directly autobiographical. They are sung in a dissociated first-person about whatever the topic of the song may be. He's an artist singing a character - aside from the lyrics and the style, this is pretty evident in any interview where a boring interviewer presses the question of the meaning of the lyrics as it pertains to him. "The critics don't get it" was his usual high-and-mighty reply - and they don't. An art critic who doesn't understand the purpose of art is one who "doesn't get it". Is Morrissey a misogynist for singing "pretty girls make graves"? You know the answer.

Keep squeezing that stone, maybe some blood will come out.

Many of his songs are clearly written from is point of view. Meat Is Murder? Is that written from a separate character's POV? Panic? I Started Something I Couldn't Finish? Many others are not strictly his autobiographical anecdotes (Cemetery Gates, How Soon Is Now?, Hand In Glove, Heaven Knows, etc) but are 'in character' enough to be uncertain but still fitting.

Bengali In Platforms gives no hint it it written from another person's perspective that we should feel uncomfortable about, it's a nasty sentiment and there is no clue he is not endorsing it, and that ambiguity is not good enough (for me).

And then you add all the dodgy things he's said. You give him the benefit of the doubt if you like, but I would remind you that you do tend to be wrong about everything.

[Benevolent Despot]

You just sounded like somebody who thinks Morrissey is beyond reproach and the sort used to write angry letters to the NME and MM during the early nineties. As you say, "It was a joke".  I don't know you.

All I'm talking about is one claim (that Morrissey is a racist). I don't need to elaborate my views further unless I really want to, and I don't. I have a passing interest in current Morrissey. You can suggest any motive you like. No need for you and Ballad to get personal.

Many of his songs are clearly written from is point of view. Meat Is Murder? Is that written from a separate character's POV? Panic? I Started Something I Couldn't Finish? Many others are not strictly his autobiographical anecdotes (Cemetery Gates, How Soon Is Now?, Hand In Glove, Heaven Knows, etc) but are 'in character' enough to be uncertain but still fitting.

Bengali In Platforms gives no hint it it written from another person's perspective that we should feel uncomfortable about, it's a nasty sentiment and there is no clue he is not endorsing it, and that ambiguity is not good enough (for me).

And then you add all the dodgy things he's said. You give him the benefit of the doubt if you like, but I would remind you that you do tend to be wrong about everything.

You were winning me over until the last sentence! Blown. Morrissey the white racist dates an Arab with a view to having mixed-race children. There seems to be something incoherent about that non-artistic event.

[Dr Rock]

He could want 'England For The English' but have no racist views that would stop him from dating a non-white person. Doesn't prove anything.

[Brundle-Fly]

No need for you and Ballad to get personal.

You tell that to the Chinese!

[Dr Rock]

Let's compare Morrissey to Alan Bennett, who also writes sometimes autobiographically, sometimes from the POV of people he is sympathetic with and sometimes he gently skewers his characters with what he has them say, that reveal themselves. If he had published Bengali In Platforms, or something very similar, people would ask questions.

What is necessary, in my mind, to establish the song is from someone else's perspective that the author doesn't share the opinions of, there would be a little give-away line or two, 'I never had much of an education, but I know what's right' or somesuch (but not that, as its shit). Bengali In Platforms has no hint to the listener if the song is not as it appears - a message to silly Bengalis that they shouldn't bother to try and fit in in a culture that is not theirs, because they will only look stupid.

Or maybe I just don't understand his art. Well he should communicate it better, or face the consequences of losing a fair-minded, intelligent person's trust.*

*that's me I meant there.

[Neomod]

Pity, but fuck off anyway Morrissey. I'll still listen to his good tracks and Smiths ones though, just like I still listen to Gary Glitter.

Looks like they heard you fella. Just in at the Morrissey store.

[shiftwork2]

Isn't Bengali In Platforms another angle on the dispossessed outsider?  'Life is hard enough when you belong here' could be sympathetic.

Nah, who am I kidding.  Vile song.  I'd defend some of his other potential offenders (National Front Disco, We'll Let You Know) but not that.

[JoeyBananaduck]

It's called a joke.

What the hell. One of the increasingly tiresome trends on CaB and in the wider media is the racialisation of all discourse and reality. Not that it should matter, but to placate your highly racialised (racist) mind, he dated an Arab woman in the U.S. around the time of 9/11.

Fucking hell, yeah, 'ark at me. A rational person of colour thinking 'the Chinese are a subspecies' is a racist statement. Where do I get off? Clearly the media have coerced me into such leaps of logic. I'd like some evidence of my racism by the way, people can be touchy about such accusations. Some even sue the NME over it. Then express support for UKIP.

[Vodka Margarine]

What's intriguing is the way he clearly still cares about and follows UKIP closely, when pretty much everyone else has moved on and couldn't give a shit. He assumed the opposite with his audience and in the process managed to tear himself yet another one, on a body that's already nearly 100% arsehole.

[phantom_power]

Isn't Bengali In Platforms another angle on the dispossessed outsider?  'Life is hard enough when you belong here' could be sympathetic.

Nah, who am I kidding.  Vile song.  I'd defend some of his other potential offenders (National Front Disco, We'll Let You Know) but not that.

I always read Bengali in Platforms as being sympathetic. I saw the "life is hard enough when you belong here" being more about the feeling of disenfranchisement the titular Bengali must feel at the hands of racism and abuse but then I heard it before I knew Morrissey was an rascialist

[Thomas]

What was the last really great single from this old Ukipper, with quality on a par with his good old days?

I think it might be 'First of the Gang to Die' (2004), which I really like. Infectious energy and deft lyrics, with a strong, catchy chorus. I can't believe 'The Bullfighter Dies' (2014) was a single. Listen to that.

DukeDeMondo is right about 'Drag the River' (also 2014) being a genuine gem inexplicably hidden away on a bonus CD.

As to this new stuff, I don't know. More of the same middling Morrissey. 'Spent the Day in Bed', to its credit, has been stuck in my head for a week, and I like a few seconds of his vocals in the chorus, but it's all missable. I feel a bit sorry for him sometimes, watching him sing his hair off on Jools Holland and feeling distinctly unmoved. Look at him doing that fadeout thing at the end. He thinks it's good.

[Dr Rock]

I think it might be 'First of the Gang to Die'

Probably - but that was 13 years ago? Fucking hell, it seems much more recent. Time is broken.

[the ouch cube]

If he played a critically reviled genre like metal, or if he was a DJ, say, the condemnation would be pretty much unanimous. But some people can't process that a British Musical Icon What I Grew Up Listening To could possibly be a preposterous sub-Prince Phillip buffoon, hence the desperate attempts from some (including this thread) to make out he's been misunderstood.

I guess it doesn't help that there are acres of ageing Smiths fans squatting like toads in the British music journalism ranks, endlessly indulging their teenage years while doing their utmost to stifle everyone else's.

[non capisco]

watching him sing his hair off on Jools Holland and feeling distinctly unmoved. Look at him doing that fadeout thing at the end. He thinks it's good.

That is exactly what I'll look like in 20 years time, underbite and everything.

[DukeDeMondo]

What was the last really great single from this old Ukipper, with quality on a par with his good old days?

I really like Something Is Squeezing My Skull. It took a while to grow on me, but grow on me it did. I can't remember much else about Years of Refusal. I don't think I listened to it very many times.

[Brundle-Fly]

If he played a critically reviled genre like metal, or if he was a DJ, say, the condemnation would be pretty much unanimous. But some people can't process that a British Musical Icon What I Grew Up Listening To could possibly be a preposterous sub-Prince Phillip buffoon, hence the desperate attempts from some (including this thread) to make out he's been misunderstood.

I guess it doesn't help that there are acres of ageing Smiths fans squatting like toads in the British music journalism ranks, endlessly indulging their teenage years while doing their utmost to stifle everyone else's.

Park(My Love)Life!