Author Topic: Star Wars Battlefront 2  (Read 11253 times)

mobias

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2017, 08:54:33 AM »
So when people say things like "It doesn't affect me, I just won't buy anything extra, it doesn't affect the game", yes, it does affect the game for you, even if you choose not to use microtransactions, the gameplay has been changed for the worse in order to accommodate a microtransaction system.

I don't disagree but its just how much for the worse the gameplay has been changed by the micro transaction system which I think is being over blown. This game isn't like GTA Online, which as Barry Admin points out, people have to devote their lives to, and its not even an Overwatch which is an online gaming phenomena unto itself. Its a relatively mindless arcade shooter which like the first game people will dip in and out of. The progression system such that it is seems like it was only put in there to tick a box because people complained there wasn't any progression in the first game.

If people want to go on a crusade over this and boycott it because of the micro transaction fiasco then fair enough, I understand, but you might as well start boycotting most AAA online games these days since it seems to be a fact of life now that all these big developers have some system in place where you can buy your way to an advantage.

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2017, 09:34:59 AM »
If people want to go on a crusade over this and boycott it because of the micro transaction fiasco then fair enough, I understand, but you might as well start boycotting most AAA online games these days since it seems to be a fact of life now that all these big developers have some system in place where you can buy your way to an advantage.

Thats pretty much what I am going to do, it's reached a tipping point for me. Microtransactions started making lots of money via the F2P model, AAA developers looked at that thought "we want some of that money" so started incorporating it into their games and people accepted it. People supported the decision by buying games that had microtransactiosn in them so they started getting aggressive with it so you end up with situations like BF2. Its only become a fact of life because we've allowed it to be, and now we can tell them that they've gone too far with it by not financially supporting games like this.

If they want to make extra money there are ways of doing it that dont involve paying to win, buying an advantage or anything like that. Titanfall 2 is the best way to aproach it, I think. Free regular DLC that doesn't split up the userbase and purely cosmetic microtransactions that don't affect the gameplay or progression system whatsovever. It can be done. But of course, EA have jut bought Respawn so theres no way that model is going to continue because I fear you are right,  I know my opinion is just a drop in the ocean and its probably too late to do anything about intrusive microtransactions. I just cant sit any more still while games get ruined and gamers get fucked over and wallet-raped just so some shareholders can have an extra zero on their bank account statement they can wank off to. And the only thing I can do is not buy their games.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2017, 10:01:20 AM »
I haven't played this or the first Battlefront game, but do the heroes/unlocks provide drastically better gear i.e easy mode kills?

Because the Battlefield games already had that with assault rifles which were vastly superior to every other weapon set in the game and required little skill to get kills with, mind you that was all free so a different argument.

Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2017, 01:36:35 PM »
Yeah it's very different to weapon balance. In the first game at least, heroes are a significant upgrade when you happen to get one. They can tank a good lot of damage, and kill the fuck out of people. It's very cool to switch from a stormtrooper with a blaster to Darth Vader, then you can run around choking people, throwing your lightsaber at them, and even deflect blaster fire. You're guaranteed a good kill streak, even if you're a total Johnny Nothumbs.

And from what I've heard, it's the same with the new star cards now - they give significant upgrades to the in game "perks" (better cooldown, no self-damage for nades etc), such that the balance is fucked, and it's now basically a pay to win game.

I just hate the whole situation. Either you just go along with this shit, or you miss out on some great games. That's it, that's what gaming is now, that's where it is largely going.

In some older CoD's, you'd buy the season pass, and you'd get a free weapon for each DLC instalment. Now they lock the fucking things in loot boxes. Things will continue to get worse, and if you don't go along with it, fuck you, there are enough whales to keep it all going anyway.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2017, 01:57:31 PM »
Thanks Barry, it all sounds atrocious.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2017, 02:28:20 PM »
It's good this PR disaster happened. These anti-consumerism practices have been slowly seeping into the industry for the past decade. It's quite gross but greedy cunts in suits will always be greedy cunts in suits and their business models are based around focusing on core audience of spenders; addicts, kids, whatever.

It can't be stopped.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2017, 04:16:21 PM »
Not to deviate any further from the actual topic, but at the same time this year I've had an absolute abundance of some of the greatest games I've ever played, across a huge variety of genres, with lengthy single-player campaigns, fantastic ideas, both in story and gameplay, and not even had them offer me the option to spend extra money within the game to 'improve my consumer experience'.

If your favourite genre is multiplayer shooter, then yeah, you might well be fucked, but I refuse to see this as any kind of 'end of days' situation in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2017, 04:22:48 PM »
Not to deviate any further from the actual topic, but at the same time this year I've had an absolute abundance of some of the greatest games I've ever played, across a huge variety of genres, with lengthy single-player campaigns, fantastic ideas, both in story and gameplay, and not even had them offer me the option to spend extra money within the game to 'improve my consumer experience'.

If your favourite genre is multiplayer shooter, then yeah, you might well be fucked, but I refuse to see this as any kind of 'end of days' situation in face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree, its pretty limited to a genre, because competition breeds one upmanship. These devs aren't idiots, they know people will blow their load in order to get ahead quicker than someone else, or even wasting money on cosmetics.

Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2017, 07:46:06 PM »
Looks like that subreddit is really continuing to make a much-needed stand. Glad some consumers are actually fed up of being treated like cunts.

https://www.change.org/p/entertainment-software-rating-board-esrb-make-esrb-declare-lootboxes-as-gambling?recruiter=834872002&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_page

Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2017, 01:14:02 AM »
Looks like crystals have been removed, perhaps just for launch?

"4528 hours or $2100 to unlock all content" - fuck me. Apparently it feels like a beta too, with loads of glitches and stuff.

Edit:

Quote
As we approach the worldwide launch, it's clear that many of you feel there are still challenges in the design. We've heard the concerns about potentially giving players unfair advantages. And we've heard that this is overshadowing an otherwise great game.

This was never our intention. Sorry we didn't get this right.

We hear you loud and clear, so we're turning off all in-game purchases. We will now spend more time listening, adjusting, balancing, and tuning. This means that the option to purchase crystals in the game is now offline, and all progression will be earned through gameplay. The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after we've made changes to the game. We'll share more details as we work through this.

- Oskar Gabrielson, General Manager at DICE
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 02:05:19 AM by Barry Admin »

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2017, 07:21:16 AM »
I just think the EA are lucky this happened to a Star Wars game, because it's such a popular IP people were always going to buy it regardless, because it's Star Wars. If this ha happened with a different game (like with For Honor) the fuss probably wouldn't be so big and less people would buy the game. It's only all kicked off now and only now are we starting to get proper conversations about microtransactions and the effect it has on games because it was Star Wars. Microtransactions have proven the the industry doesn't really give a fuck about gamers anymore, they want the casual players as it's a bigger cash market. They're pissed off gamers in the past with intrusive microtransactions but have always managed to ride it out because it was just a vocal minority, but now they've pissed off the casuals who are now a very vocal majority. It's going to be interesting to follow the changes they make, and to see if this changes the attitude of other devs and publishers going forward (I doubt it, but we can hope).

mobias

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2017, 08:36:48 AM »
Looks like crystals have been removed, perhaps just for launch?

"4528 hours or $2100 to unlock all content" - fuck me. Apparently it feels like a beta too, with loads of glitches and stuff.



But as someone else pointed out that actually pales into insignificance compared to some other online games, notably GTA Online.

Games like this are always just a paid for beta test for a month or so until they're tweaked.

Anyway.....Buy this game now with a clear conscience you can.



edit Sounds like the boss of EA got his knuckles rapped from the boss of Disney...

"Earlier today, Electronic Arts chief executive officer Andrew Wilson had a phone call with The Walt Disney Company chief executive Bob Iger about Star Wars: Battlefront II, according to sources familiar with the situation. A few hours after that call, and players are finding that the option to purchase the premium crystals currency is no longer working. EA has now confirmed that it is taking this feature down to address fan concerns just as the game is about to launch worldwide tomorrow. All of this comes after multiple days of outrage from fans who are upset that EA and developer DICE have implemented an online multiplayer system that gives an advantage to people who pay money."

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2017, 09:10:42 AM »
The problem with GTA Online is that there is too much content. It's great that they put in so much stuff but they never adjusted the economy for it so shark cards or extreme grinding became the only way to go. Affording stuff was never a problem when GTAO first started, everything was within reach, I think it's the gradual escalation with all the free content meaning you needed more and more money that has allowed them to get away with the games economy being what it is now. If it launched the way it is now there would have been a bigger uproar. And another thing in it's favour is that you can buy shark cards and buy as much stuff as you want but you still need to be certain character levels to use items and weapons (I think you need to be level 130 to use the mingun for example), you need to win races to unlock the upgrades for the cars so it's not strictly pay-to-win because it still forces you to play the game to progress. You can pay to buy stuff early but you still need to play the game to level up to use the stuff you buy.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2017, 10:52:21 AM »
But as someone else pointed out that actually pales into insignificance compared to some other online games, notably GTA Online.

Games like this are always just a paid for beta test for a month or so until they're tweaked.

Whether other games are worse makes no difference; why keep bringing up GTA Online? Rockstar and EA are both cunts, they don't cancel each other out.

Quote
Anyway.....Buy this game now with a clear conscience you can.

Do you work for EA?

Moribunderast

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2017, 10:55:08 AM »
Watched a Jim Sterling vid of the gameplay today and it looks buggy as fuck. He's been banging the "microtransactions/loot boxes are vile" drum for a long time but his gameplay vid is more a "This game is shit, look at it" thing, with endlessly vibrating Tie Fighters, jumping and somehow getting stuck flying/in the roof, getting stuck in a corner... it looked terrible.

I'm glad this game has really kickstarted a discussion and backlash against corporate greed in the gaming industry. It's been a long time coming and while I don't expect the AAA industry to change, it's nice to see them get a clear view of how they're practices are seen by a good chunk of the player-base. I know I personally buy very few AAA games now because the prevalence of DLC, microtransactions and loot-boxes just turns me off completely - the idea of paying 60-100 dollars for a shell game, then being asked to spend significantly more is ridiculous when Steam is overflowing with really good, cheap indie stuff.

biggytitbo

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2017, 01:42:37 PM »
The argument from the game companies is always - "well the price of games hasnt increased, but the budgets have gone through the roof, so we have to make up that shortfall somewhere!!"


The fact budgets have skyrocketed is entirely the fault of the industry and its obsession with graphics, not the consumer. Everytime you buy a game these days it cripples your computer because the developer has spent 2 years and millions of pounds rebuilding the engine to provide a few extra blades of grass or something, at the cost of hogging 50% more resources. Who exactly gives a shit? The Switch has shown that whilst technical stuff is important, by far the most important thing graphically is the art design not how many beads of sweat you can see rolling down Laras tits.


Also, Sensua's Sacrifice has shown that argument to be bullshit anyway. Thats a game with graphics as good as any AAA game but released at half the cost without a single microtransaction or loot box and did very well.


Ubisoft are probably the worse offenders with this, yes well done you've spent $100m accurately recreating 10,000 square miles of ancient egypt, unfortunately  you filled it with repetitive grindy shit to do and it makes even the most powerful gaming PC in the world blow up. I'm not sure that really counts as progress, especially when they claim the only way they can pay for all this is to ramp up the anti consumer practises and fleece us all.

Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2017, 01:54:10 PM »
Ubisofts open world games are just boring as shit these days, for sure.

BF2 sounds like it doesn't have much going for it beyond the whizzy graphics
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/star-wars-battlefront-ii-review-nope-nope-nope-nope-nope-nope-nope/

And they've already admitted they'll turn the microtransactions back on after the launch.

I'm thrilled though that a lot of this loot box/Skinner box shit is being looked at, finally. It's gambling, and it should not be allowed. The games industry will find some other way to nickel and dime us, but just get rid of this gambling shit in the meantime! I used to be able to buy a good camo if I wanted it,  now I can just buy the chance to own it. Go and fuck yourselves. And take all your preorder bonus shit with you, you greedy dirtbags.

biggytitbo

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2017, 02:00:50 PM »
Yeah I don't buy that argument that its not technically gambling, thats weaseling out of it. Its gambling in essence, at the very least it has all the worst traits of gambling and is clearly designed to sucker people in in the same way as fixed odds terminals and such.


EA would have made an absolute shit ton of cash out of this Star Wars game if they'd just released it as a normal game without all these aftersales milking of the consumer. Its not to make up for massive budgets, its so they can make even more profit than they would have done anyway.

mobias

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »
why keep bringing up GTA Online?

No real reason other than its the only game I can think of off the top of head that a number of CABers play or have played and that features a well established in game monetisation system.

Rockstar and EA are both cunts, they don't cancel each other out.


I wouldn't necessarily refute that.


Do you work for EA?

No I was just making a joke

Anyway I've just bought and downloaded this bloody game and by jove I'm going to spend my Friday afternoon enjoying it whilst drinking copious amounts of wine.

Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2017, 03:58:25 PM »
I'm glad this has opened some people's eyes to what's going on, in terms of how people are being messed with psychologically. I just want to play games! In the new Call of Duty, they ripped off the Tower from Destiny so that you have to stand around and watch other people open their loot boxes, in the hope that you'll go and jealously buy some. I mean, really, that's absurd. Activision and SHG had also been looking at pairing people up in game in such a way that people with great loot are matched with people with no loot, so they feel more inclined to buy stuff. And so on.

I've binned off Reddit now as it's fucking shady too. They delete threads and comments and you have no way of knowing unless you go into incognito mode and check!

Pay to win seems fairly unstoppable at this point, but at least a stand has been made. People are also wishing upto PR tactics, such as the way they've managed this controversy by saying "we'll turn off microtransactions... for an hour." Then the headlines are all full of "EA and Dice have responded by turning off microtransactions." No, they've disabled them temporarily, tell the full story.

biggytitbo

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2017, 04:19:39 PM »
Is it true that the review copies they sent out had a lot of the locked content unlocked to give a deliberately false impression of what the game was like? It sounds tantamount to fraud but at this point you wouldnt put much past them.

Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2017, 04:22:46 PM »
I'm not sure, but certainly the earn rate was reportedly a LOT faster.

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2017, 04:36:10 PM »
Is it true that the review copies they sent out had a lot of the locked content unlocked to give a deliberately false impression of what the game was like? It sounds tantamount to fraud but at this point you wouldnt put much past them.

Yeah, I think unlocking heroes was set at 15000 credits in review copies when it would be 60000 in the normal game. Apparently this is quite a common practice too with review copies, was something I was never aware of until now though.

mobias

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2017, 05:02:38 PM »
If the big studios want to moneterise a game post release they should really just make paid for DLC in the traditional sense and be damned with it. That seems to be least controversial way of doing things even if it does mean dividing the player base up. If the game is good enough in the first place then a majority of fans will buy it anyway, see the DLC success of Witcher 3 GTAIV etc. If its good well made content that doesn't seem like its ripping people off then people will gladly pay for it to extend their experience I think.


Barry Admin

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2017, 05:06:59 PM »
I still remember when map packs were free, to say thanks to people who supported the game, and give them something new to do. Ditto costumes in fighting games, they were a reward.

I also remember when betas were not just used as a way of getting people to preorder, rather they were actually used to fine tune a game and stress test it for a successful launch.

biggytitbo

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2017, 05:52:31 PM »
I remember back in the day you'd buy a Lucasarts or Sierra game for £35-40, and the box would be full of ads for hint books and premium rate phone lines. Then you'd play the game and it'd be so (clearly deliberately) obtuse and hard that in the pre-internet age you were left with little choice but to give up on the expensive thing you bought or ring the number.


I know what EA is doing is in a different league of shittiness but there is precedent for anti consumer behaviour in the industry.

Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2017, 06:16:09 PM »
I hate this smug twat:

https://youtu.be/G1Ky9-OoWyo

mobias

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2017, 07:35:01 PM »
I'll say again that the really sad thing is with all this fiasco of a launch is that this is simply an amazing game. I've just played it almost solidly for about 5 or 6 hours and its endless fun. Its also I think probably the best looking and sounding game I've ever played. Maybe you need a 4K HDR TV to appreciate it properly and maybe you don't but it is jaw dropingly good looking and sounding. I was just playing an assault game there where the rebels have to steal an AT-AT on Endor at night during a rain storm and the AT-AT has got these massive search lights on its head. When they're shining through the trees there's all these huge shadows and blinding lights and its just the best use of HDR I've seen so far in any game I've played and its incredibly atmospheric and oddly terrifying.

I enjoyed the first game despite its many flaws but this all in a different league. Its not without its flaws of course. The battle droids are very naff (as they are in the movies) and personally I find the star fighter assault a bit boring despite the arial combat being a huge improvement over the first game. Its great arcade fun but I find it gets boring quickly.

The loot boxes aside dare I say its actually good fun upgrading your weapons and abilities once you unlock the crafting ability at rank 10 (which takes roughly an afternoon of gameplay) and things move on quite quickly for you. There are some unlockables which seem beyond the reach of the your average player like me, whether or not they address this I don't know, but I can't say that not having them is spoiling my gameplay so far. 

The technical problems people are reporting must be on the PC version because I've not experienced anything major on the PS4. Seems ok from what I've seen. There probably are balancing issues but they've clearly learnt a lot from the first game so it doesn't seem noticeably bad at the moment.

I'd like to add that I do not work for EA and I do not have shares in EA, in fact I hate EA more than you could know (they killed off my beloved SSX and disbanded the entire team behind it, EA are wankers) but I do think some of you might really enjoy this game.


Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2017, 09:04:38 PM »
I'd have to agree with a lot of what mobias is saying. From playing about 5-6 hours of the trial and completing the campaign today, I've enjoyed it massively so far. Have had basically no jankiness or glitches playing on Xbone S so far, worst I've had is one or two dunderheaded AI stormtroopers in the campaign and hey, they're stormtroopers, it didn't feel hugely out of character.

Even on a base-level console the game looks and sounds simply amazing, and feels snappy and satisfying in moment-to-moment play. That they've got it looking so good and running at a full 60fps even on a stock Xbone feels like some kind of witchcraft. Playing starfighter matches in first person has to be the most authentically Star Wars-ian experience I've ever had, and even on foot, blasters have a satisfying kick and snap to them as they knock enemies clean off their feet. The various tweaks to the gameplay have improved the whole experience massively from BF1, in many ways it really does feel like everything the first game should have been.

The campaign is a bit of a hodge-podge, which makes the central storyline a bit of a mess but does a solid job getting you into all the various Star Wars business you'd want. Yeah, it's patchy, but very satisfying in places. The length didn't bother me that much, I can see myself replaying quite a lot of it but I won't say no to the free expansion coming later either. The bonus Arcade mode is fairly dispensable fluff but it does give you a chance to play around with some of the tertiary characters and the increased focus on giving solo players more to do is appreciated.

The unlocks in this game don't really bother me too much, I'm used to having MP games with shit gated behind hours of play and this doesn't really feel a lot different. The huffing and puffing about having to unlock Darth Vader feels like very small beans when I remember what you had to do to unlock Elvira in that last Call of Duty DLC (a sequence of events so stupidly complicated I thought at first it was some kind of cruel joke), which was paid content on top of a $60 game. I didn't feel at a huge disadvantage playing against folks with stronger loadouts, but then I'm not a huge multiplayer guy so others might feel this more keenly. I just want to get on, have some fun and shoot some shit up, which this does admirably. As a side note, after a handful on hours on the trial and running through the campaign on the full version I've already unlocked Iden and am only a game or two away from getting Vader, so (post-tweaking) the unlock system really isn't too bad.

I'm extremely glad this whole mess is drawing attention to the loot box issue, though. While it doesn't bother me too much in this case, it is absolutely an extremely predatory practice that has been going on far too long and is only getting worse. It's been very clear for a while now that games (especially in the mobile sector) have no self-control on this matter at all and will keep pushing gambling to kids until some exterior force comes down hard on 'em, and if this is what compels people to finally push for it, then that's fine with me.

mobias

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront 2
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2017, 09:34:02 PM »
I love the fact that in the assault maps there's clearly a lot more thought gone into creating set piece's or finale's to each round. That was something the first game hardly ever did. It does seem like a ton more though has gone into creating great moments in each level. I also like they've introduced a day/night cycle into certain maps. The night time fights are amazing with all the lighting effects and explosions lighting the place up. Its also nice that they've introduced a little bit of contextual story for each assault map, again something the first game didn't do at all.

Some people are saying they must be doing something odd with the map rotation system as it always seems to favour you starting on certain maps. I've only managed to play all the maps now because I stayed in one lobby for about 3 hours and did an entire cycle of the maps. It does seem to favour dumping you in a certain couple of maps if you just want to quickly dive in for a game or two. 

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