Hemingway

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Currently about 150 pages into 'A Farewell to Arms' and am finding it a bit draggy and boring. At first the prose style was intriguing, sparse almost to the point of feeling surreally detached, but now I'm struggling to press on. Am I missing something here? Any Hemingway fans willing to make the case?

[Red Lantern]

My wife and I joined a local book club in January of last year, and the book for the first meeting we went to was 'A Farewell To Arms'. I struggled to read the first 100 pages and then bailed, and my wife (a voracious reader) finished it and was very annoyed with it, so we both thought it was shit. I found the dialogue very unnatural, I couldn't imagine people talking to each other the way Hemingway wrote them.

Needless to say, we haven't read any more of his books.

[selectivememory]

Hmm.

I read three Hemingways earlier this year. For Whom the Bell Tolls I adored. Although the dialogue was often very bad, particularly anything said between Robert and Maria, but as a whole it was compelling and I found the politics and the characters very interesting. And as someone who didn't know that much about the Spanish Civil War, it was a great place to start learning about it. There are some wonderful passages; I especially liked Pilar's account of the executions of the fascists in her home town. I remember the final chapter made me feel about as tense as I ever have while reading a novel.

The Sun Also Rises I thought was close to flawless (and for me, the only Hemingway where the dialogue kind of works), but A Farewell to Arms was the one that I found a bit iffy. I found everything concerning the war and the protagonist's escape from it pretty great, but the dialogue was terrible the whole way through and as I remember it, aside from the protagonist, the characters were very one-dimensional and flat - especially the nurse that he has a relationship with (I don't know if she was just Hemingway's fantasy, but she didn't come across as a real person). As with FWTBT, the romance didn't feel believable at all. I did wonder if my being underwhelmed by it was an effect of it being the last of the three books of his that I read, but I'm not sure; like I said, I found the descriptions of the retreat from the Austrians compelling. The ending seemed very mawkish and cynical as well. 

For Whom the Bell Tolls is magnificent though. I really wanted that one to go on for another couple hundred pages or so.

[Captain Z]

My wife and I joined a local book club in January of last year, and the book for the first meeting we went to was 'A Farewell To Arms'. I struggled to read the first 100 pages and then bailed, and my wife (a voracious reader) finished it and was very annoyed with it, so we both thought it was shit. I found the dialogue very unnatural, I couldn't imagine people talking to each other the way Hemingway wrote them.

Needless to say, we haven't read any more of his books.

I would have gone along anyway just so that when asked which part of the book I didn't enjoy I could reply 'I'd probably have to say the bit where he lost his arms'.

[mothman]

Hemingway and Dickens are the two authors whose books I have loaded on my Kindle and WILL read... one day...

[Sebastian Cobb]

I read three Hemingways earlier this year. For Whom the Bell Tolls I adored. Although the dialogue was often very bad, particularly anything said between Robert and Maria, but as a whole it was compelling and I found the politics and the characters very interesting. And as someone who didn't know that much about the Spanish Civil War, it was a great place to start learning about it. There are some wonderful passages; I especially liked Pilar's account of the executions of the fascists in her home town. I remember the final chapter made me feel about as tense as I ever have while reading a novel.

Ahh, my entry point to the Spanish Civil War started at Land and Freedom (amazing, get a copy now!), then I decided I wanted to learn more so read Homage to Catalonia (read it if you haven't); I told someone that and they recommended this and I just found it a slog for broadly the reasons you describe. Knowing it was fiction I couldn't get past the clumsy dialogue and the internal reassurance where entire passages are the same. While the last passage was a bit tense I was largely bored and wanting rid by the time I got to it.

But seriously check out Land and Freedom. It's superb.

[selectivememory]

But seriously check out Land and Freedom. It's superb.

Will do. Thanks for the rec!

[Dex Sawash]

I just read For Whom the Bell Tolls on a rec from a firend, supposed to be illuminating about fascism. I didnt find it addressed fascism in a way it would not have treated the other side in any conflict. Maybe he had read something else at the same time. I did like the part were he described it going in.

[Genevieve]

Like many people I took A Farewell to Arms down from the shelf a long time ago and couldn't get into it because of the style.  I'll try again sometime.  I decided to start from near the beginning so read The Torrents of Spring a few years back and found it had charm, it sort of reminded me of Steinbeck's Tortilla Flat, with people going out looking for freedom and fun, behaving irresponsibly.  Maybe it means I would like Sherwood Anderson.  I'll try The Sun Also Rises next, the title always appealed to me.

As for the Spanish Civil war, don't forget Laurie Lee's As I walked out one midsummer morning, A Moment of War and A Rose for Winter.

[Repeater]

LOVE im, can't remember which works of his ive read. sun also rises for sure, bell toler, homage to catalonia defo. not CERTAIN about Farewell to Arms. That the one with Pilae?

[G.C.]

For Whom the Bell Tolls I adored. Although the dialogue was often very bad, particularly anything said between Robert and Maria,

I'm reading this at the moment.

With the dialogue, I had taken its weirdness to be a rendering of the peasant version of Spanish they are speaking (does he mention that it's Old Castilian?), and the fact that it's a second language for Robert is factored in, so the awkwardness of the communication is part of the dialogue.

That's what I've decided so I can cope with it, but I'm not sure if I'm making excuses for it.

[Gwen Taylor on ITV]

Hmm.

I read three Hemingways earlier this year. For Whom the Bell Tolls I adored. Although the dialogue was often very bad, particularly anything said between Robert and Maria, but as a whole it was compelling and I found the politics and the characters very interesting. And as someone who didn't know that much about the Spanish Civil War, it was a great place to start learning about it. There are some wonderful passages; I especially liked Pilar's account of the executions of the fascists in her home town. I remember the final chapter made me feel about as tense as I ever have while reading a novel.

I also found the dialogue a little stilted, like it had been translated roughly from Spanish.  That and the constant 'obscenity in thy mother's milk' made it read like it was written in someone's second language.

The novel itself though was one of my favourites for years, and like you I could have gone on for another 200 pages (partly because the ending was so abrupt - although on reflection this was part of the reason why I loved the book so).

[selectivememory]

With the dialogue, I had taken its weirdness to be a rendering of the peasant version of Spanish they are speaking (does he mention that it's Old Castilian?), and the fact that it's a second language for Robert is factored in, so the awkwardness of the communication is part of the dialogue.

Yeah, that's true and a lot of the interactions between Robert and the rest of the group are fine. Overly formal at times, but it makes sense given what you've mentioned there. But the conversations between Robert and Maria really do become interminable after a while. It's not even the phrasing, it's the content of what they're saying to each other that is so insipid. It's a shame, because for me it was the one problem with the book, and the romantic plot is central to the book and to understanding Robert's actions towards the end of the story.

Based on this and A Farewell to Arms, I have to conclude that Hemingway did not know how to write believable romantic dialogue between a man and a woman. In general his female characters were not great, although I think Pilar is a very strong character, and Brett in The Sun Also Rises is also very believable - and as I said in my earlier post, I really like the dialogue in that book, as it just seems so well matched to the time and place of its setting.

[Wet Blanket]

Sun Also Rises and The Old Man and the Sea are his best fiction works in my opinion. Count me in as someone else who found Farewell to Arms hard work.

Sometimes Hem can be a man more interesting to read about than read, and in that respect I really recommend Papa Hemingway by AE Hotchner, which provides an interesting account of life in the man's company and his troubled later years. It's pretty uncritical, as Hotchner was (or claims to have been) a close friend, but reading between the lines you can pick up on how much hard work Hemingway could be and how attempting to live up to his hyper-masculine image slowly drove him nuts.

[Repeater]

Oh aye I've read the old man and the Sea too

[the science eel]

The thinner Hemingway books are the best! Really!

The Old Man And The Sea is kind of perfect. And A Movable Feast is ace.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Finally finished it. Put off reading the last 30 pages for absolutely ages and read several other books in the meantime. It is awfully distended bilge.

I will be trying 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' though.

[G.C.]

Just finished Bell Tolls. Overall enjoyable, though it does drift at points, seemingly by design. Great ending.

What's odd is that one chapter - chapter 27, El Sordo's band on the hill - feels like a standalone short story that's been dropped into the middle of the novel. It's also the best bit of the whole book (along with the short paragraph from the viewpoint of a horse).