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Catch 22

Started by weekender, October 05, 2017, 07:26:58 PM

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weekender

QuoteThere was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he were sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to, but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

I can't begin to describe how much I love Catch-22.

When I first read it, in my teenage years, I was completely flummoxed.  What was going on?  Nonetheless, I somehow knew it was worth reading again to try and make sense of the whole thing, and I'm glad I did, it's probably my favourite novel of all time.  Now I shall try and sell it to you without giving too much away.  I'm obviously going to refer to Wikipedia as I write, which conveys a much more professional analysis of the book, but if you're interested in my attempt, read on.  If you're not, and would rather read the Wikipedia article, that's fine, see you later*.

I don't really know where to start.  I suppose the characters is as good a place as any.  No, the setting.

It's set during WWII, on an army base on the island of Pianosa in the Mediterranean near Italy, and it covers what happens to members of the 256th air squadron between 1942 and 1944 (and also other people who are involved in the war, and other settings like during the air missions of the squadron).

We are gradually introduced to certain characters - certainly at the start of the book the chapters are supposedly all about a single character - The Texan, Clevinger, Havermeyer, Doc Daneeka are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.  Mostly the narrative focuses on Yossarian, who is allegedly the main character in the novel although there are several reasons why that could be argued against.

Each character is described through different ways - either Yossarian's thoughts on them, their own self-introspection, or by third party character's thoughts about the character in question.  This sentence is a bit of a mess, so here's a random quote which hopefully explains what I'm trying to describe:

Quote'Men,' Colonel Cargill began in Yossarian's squadron, measuring his pauses carefully.  'You're American Officers.  The Officers of no other army in the world can make that statement.  Think about it'.

Sergeant Knight thought about it and then politely informed Colonel Cargill that he was addressing the enlisted men and that the officers were to be found waiting for him on the other side of the squadron.  Colonel Cargill thanked him crisply and glowed with self-satisfaction as he strode across the area.  It made him proud to observe that twenty-nine months in the service had not blunted his genius for ineptitude.

So there's one scene, written wonderfully, which captures the thoughts of two people.  Later (or earlier) on, we see the same scene from other character's perspectives.  It's a joy trying to piece everything together.

Oh, have I mentioned that the novel isn't really linear?  There is a definite logic to the way the whole book is structured - and all I'll say at this point is that whilst what I have described so far sounds a bit 'Four Lions-esque' in terms of black humour, the fact that it's set during WWII should give you some idea that it's not a death-free novel.

I don't know how to end this 'brief' little review.  It's an astonishing book, and I keep enjoying it every time I read it.  Heller may have joined the character's dots and the plot in his head - and, indeed, in the book - but I still find little references to connections I haven't thought about.  So for me, it's the most enjoyable novel I've ever read, and will continue to read, because it makes me think.

I hope this inspires someone else to read it.

*Never liked you anyway, but at least I made you scroll down to this.

mothman

"Bombardiers" by Po Bronson is a terrific pastiche of Catch-22. Set in a San Francisco bond traders office, but the title makes it obvious where its inspiration lies.

Dex Sawash

I've seen the scene in the movie where the old woman says catch-a twentee too about 22 times but not much else. I'll read it .

MikeShaft

I've attempted three reads of Catch 22. The first aged around 18 I aborted about 40 pages in. I just didn't click with it at all. It seemed needlessly complicated.
Second reading, aged 25, and I fell under its spell. A staggering piece of writing with every sentenced carefully balanced, every scene perfectly plotted with just enough information to illustrate the underlying theme of the book - which I took not only to be a satire on war, but also on language. It revels in the misdirection of the assumptions we make, the first cabs off the rank. Then it confounds them at every turn till the entire process of reading the book becomes a challenge to grasp the "true" situations.
Third reading, aged 30 ish, see notes for reading number one. I have no idea why. I think it's perhaps because it's intimidatingly obtuse. You've just got to get over the hump. It reminds me of Cloud Atlas in that sense.

It's an amazing book when you truly get between its covers. Just writing this has made me want to leap back in to it for attempt number four.

weekender

Nicely put. 

For me initially, it was the enjoyment of some of the sentences that kept me hooked.  Here, I'll try and experiment - I'm going to get the book, flick to a random page and find a quote, then analyse it.  Here we go:

QuoteThe last person in the squadron Major Major wanted to be brought down with a flying tackle by was Yossarian.  There was something inherently disreputable about Yossarian, always carrying on so disgracefully about that dead man in his tent who wasn't even there and then taking off his clothes after the Avignon mission and going around without them right up to the day General Dreedle stepped up to pin a medal on him for his heroism over Ferrera and found him standing in formation stark naked.

I could probably do this approach for nearly any couple of sentences in the book.  This isn't something you can skim-read, this is something you have to pay attention to again and again, and even then you'll miss something. 

Just consider the actual events that take place in those couple of sentences:

-Major Major has been brought down with a flying tackle by Yossarian
-Yossarian and the dead man in his tent who isn't there
-Yossarian taking his clothes off after the Avignon mission
-The flying mission to Ferrera
-General Dreedle's attempt to pin a medal on a naked Yossarian

All of these are described in more detail, by other narrators, at different points in the book.  These couple of sentences just capture Major Major's immediate thoughts about Yossarian.

Then you have how those events are perceived by different parties:

-Major Major is seemingly the third party narrator now, describing how he hates Yossarian (or does he have a grudging admiration?)
-Yossarian is described seemingly in the third party, but he comes across as both a coward and a hero (my interpretation)
-General Dreedle is mentioned possibly in admiration, but also possibly with reprehension by Major Major (depending on how you interpret Major Major as a character)

That's my analysis of just two sentences, and yet all of the above are described and explained in perfect detail throughout the rest of the book.

I'm trying, but I cannot begin to describe how amazing a book it is, once you finally get to grips with what's going on.  I'm not claiming to fully understand it yet, but I must have read it 20 times and pieced together something new every time.  Every sentence, no matter how trivial it might seem, is written with a reason.

It's incredible, I do hope other people read it as a result of this thread, even if it takes you four or five goes.  It's honestly worth it.

Endicott

I read it, probably 35 years ago. Fuckin loved it, but haven't read it since. A couple of days ago I found myself thinking my work place was like being in a Joseph Heller novel (specifically Catch-22). I think it's long overdue a re-read, thanks for mentioning it.

thraxx

Quote from: MikeShaft on October 06, 2017, 06:12:11 PM
I've attempted three reads of Catch 22. The first aged around 18 I aborted about 40 pages in. I just didn't click with it at all. It seemed needlessly complicated.
Second reading, aged 25, and I fell under its spell. A staggering piece of writing with every sentenced carefully balanced, every scene perfectly plotted with just enough information to illustrate the underlying theme of the book - which I took not only to be a satire on war, but also on language. It revels in the misdirection of the assumptions we make, the first cabs off the rank. Then it confounds them at every turn till the entire process of reading the book becomes a challenge to grasp the "true" situations.
Third reading, aged 30 ish, see notes for reading number one. I have no idea why. I think it's perhaps because it's intimidatingly obtuse. You've just got to get over the hump. It reminds me of Cloud Atlas in that sense.

It's an amazing book when you truly get between its covers. Just writing this has made me want to leap back in to it for attempt number four.

Totally. I struggled to get past the first 40 pages and gave up several times, but thank god i kept trying. Astonishing book. It also captures perfectly the ridiculousness of the military, the difference between the ranks and officers, how uselessness is no barrier to progression, and how military precision is a complete misnomer. Not to mention the horror of war.  Going to have another read - I hope i make it into the juicy bits of the book and don't give up.

MikeShaft

Right. That's it. Next book in the queue. I'm going back in.

selectivememory

I think I read it when I was about 18, and it probably was a defining reading experience for me. I read it for a second time a few years later, and have always meant to go back and reread it again. I'm not sure I ever found it difficult because it's just so relentlessly entertaining that even when it's confusing and challenging, it's still immense fun. That analysis by Weekender sums it up pretty well. Even in passages where you're not quite sure what's happening, there's always reference to something else that you do know about and which is funny or interesting in its own right, before being placed in a new context and being presented in a different light. I just like the way it keeps building and adding in new bits of information. It really is an incredibly dense piece of writing.

All Surrogate

I read this back when I was a teenager too.  I've often recommended it over the years.  I can see why there's often a struggle to get started with it, due to its structure, but I didn't have that much trouble myself.  The opening couple of lines are great, and the phrase "I heard you kill him" rattles around my head every so often and makes me grin.

nedthemumbler

Read it roughly every five years, and yes find new connections and allusions to enjoy each time.  Maybe the funniest book Ever written?

Have avoided the film.

zomgmouse

Quote from: nedthemumbler on October 07, 2017, 11:56:16 PM
Read it roughly every five years, and yes find new connections and allusions to enjoy each time.  Maybe the funniest book Ever written?

Have avoided the film.

The film is great. I was surprised as I adore the book with its horrifying absurdity and chaos and all the rest. I thought Nichols and co did a startlingly magnificent job of translating that to the screen. 10/10, both the book and the film.

Shaky

Nothing to add except that it's an incredible book which also took me a couple of attempts to get into. The follow-up, Closing Time, isn't much cop, unfortunately.

Quote from: zomgmouse on October 08, 2017, 01:30:09 AM
The film is great. I was surprised as I adore the book with its horrifying absurdity and chaos and all the rest. I thought Nichols and co did a startlingly magnificent job of translating that to the screen. 10/10, both the book and the film.

The whole cast is excellent but Alan Arkin in particular is an amazing Yossarian, absolutely spot on.

nedthemumbler

Quote from: zomgmouse on October 08, 2017, 01:30:09 AM
The film is great. I was surprised as I adore the book with its horrifying absurdity and chaos and all the rest. I thought Nichols and co did a startlingly magnificent job of translating that to the screen. 10/10, both the book and the film.

Oh ok.  I stand corrected.  It just seems like one of those 'unfilmables' where any attempt would only detract from the book.

Will seek it out then..

Was it somebody on here or a podcast or something who collected every edition of catch 22?

zomgmouse

Quote from: Shaky on October 08, 2017, 07:10:01 AM
Nothing to add except that it's an incredible book which also took me a couple of attempts to get into. The follow-up, Closing Time, isn't much cop, unfortunately.

The whole cast is excellent but Alan Arkin in particular is an amazing Yossarian, absolutely spot on.

I thought the sequel was Something Happened? I've got that sitting on my shelf but have yet to open it. Or is it just an unrelated Heller work? EDIT: Never mind, it's unrelated. But has anyone read it? What's it like?

The cast is indeed stellar. Literally full of stars, from Anthony Perkins to Orson Welles. A great collection of actors.

Quote from: nedthemumbler on October 08, 2017, 11:30:04 AM
Oh ok.  I stand corrected.  It just seems like one of those 'unfilmables' where any attempt would only detract from the book.

Will seek it out then..


It definitely omits many of the book's subplots but the general vibe is translated beautifully. If you can, find the DVD commentary where Steven Soderbergh interviews Mike Nichols. Well worth listening to after you've watched the film.

manticore

Quote from: zomgmouse on October 08, 2017, 11:36:19 AM
I thought the sequel was Something Happened? I've got that sitting on my shelf but have yet to open it. Or is it just an unrelated Heller work? EDIT: Never mind, it's unrelated. But has anyone read it? What's it like?

I think Something Happened is a fantastic book, though I haven't come across anyone who agrees with me. Nothing actually happens until the end, but when it does it's absolutely devestating and you see that the whole of the novel has been leading up to that moment. Up to then it's just a man who works in an office describing his fucked up relationships with his wife, colleagues, son and other people in his life. He is simultaneously extremely self-aware and self-deluding and you get to know him better than I think I have any character in any book I've read.
It's completely different in style and tone to Catch-22.

I feel very strongly that people should read it so I suggest you do.

weekender

Quote from: manticore on October 08, 2017, 05:49:41 PM
I think Something Happened is a fantastic book, though I haven't come across anyone who agrees with me. Nothing actually happens until the end, but when it does it's absolutely devestating and you see that the whole of the novel has been leading up to that moment. Up to then it's just a man who works in an office describing his fucked up relationships with his wife, colleagues, son and other people in his life. He is simultaneously extremely self-aware and self-deluding and you get to know him better than I think I have any character in any book I've read.
It's completely different in style and tone to Catch-22.

I feel very strongly that people should read it so I suggest you do.

I was aware that Closing Time was officially the follow-up to Catch-22, but I confess to having not actually read it yet (it is on a shelf somewhere).

Something Happened sounds interesting, so I've just purchased a second-hand copy which will hopefully turn up next week, I look forward to it.

Thanks for your post.  Two tangents come of my thoughts - the novel 'Fold' and 'Where to get books'.  I think I should do the latter first.

zomgmouse

Quote from: manticore on October 08, 2017, 05:49:41 PM
I think Something Happened is a fantastic book, though I haven't come across anyone who agrees with me. Nothing actually happens until the end, but when it does it's absolutely devestating and you see that the whole of the novel has been leading up to that moment. Up to then it's just a man who works in an office describing his fucked up relationships with his wife, colleagues, son and other people in his life. He is simultaneously extremely self-aware and self-deluding and you get to know him better than I think I have any character in any book I've read.
It's completely different in style and tone to Catch-22.

I feel very strongly that people should read it so I suggest you do.

Thanks for this. I'm sure I'll get to it... eventually...

Mortimer

Read my original paperback so many times that it's falling apart so had to buy another copy. My girlfriend spotted a hardcopy so bought that for me too, just to keep.

"Polymesmeric" it says on the cover. Not a word that I've seen anywhere else, but quite apt here.

In my first copy - the falling apart one - the chaplain is R.O. Shipman. In the other two he's A.T. Tappman. Plenty of speculation out there as to the reason for the name change between editions but no one seems to actually know why.

Camp Tramp

I remember reading this book at the age of 10 and not getting it at all but thinking I was really cool because I had a adult book. Reread it about 10 years later and understand much of it but was still missing a lot of nuances. I am due a re-read, will certainly pick up things I missed the last time and will no doubt fail to pick up other things.

What are your favourite segments in the novel. I enjoyed the Segment when Yossarian is censoring letters while in the hospital.

zomgmouse

I'm always tickled by Milo's grocery economics.

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

Quote from: zomgmouse on October 08, 2017, 11:36:19 AM
I thought the sequel was Something Happened? I've got that sitting on my shelf but have yet to open it. Or is it just an unrelated Heller work? EDIT: Never mind, it's unrelated. But has anyone read it? What's it like?

Haven't read it myself, but my dad always told me one of his favourite books of all time, because it had one of the funniest lines every in it. But when I asked him what the line was, he said "it wouldn't make sense unless you'd read the whole thing".

phantom_power

It is my favourite book. I am often surprised when people say they have struggled with it as I found it a very easy read. That isn't a humblebrag as I am generally thick as arseholes when it comes to understand complicated books and reading subtext and the like. This book just clicked with me. Funny as fuck as well. And I agree that the film is great as well

Kane Jones


Shaky

Right topic, wrong forum time... the sole episode of Catch-22: The Series is on Youtube! I remember hearing about it years ago but half supected it was some sort of myth as there were barely any details on the net, let alone footage. But here it is in all it's terrible, desperately-trying-to-hang-onto-the-coat-tails-of-MASH glory!

Seriously, it's very bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC707hhUErs