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Super Mario Odyssey - and some general chat about Mario games

Started by Kelvin, October 12, 2017, 02:19:30 PM

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Kelvin



Live action trailer:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtGw-ZfHyLQ

With two weeks until the game is out, and with the Switch thread already becoming dominated by the discussion of Mario games, I thought I might as well start a thread for this.

Picking up from the other thread:

First review score is out, from EDGE magazine, and it's a 10.

Quote from: madhair60 on October 12, 2017, 10:29:47 AM
Well, as it's better than Mario 64, not really. Mario 64 doesn't even remotely hold up.

Really? I think Mario 64 holds up really well. Probably better than any other game of that era. Graphically it's dated obviously, but it still controls really well, and is a lot of fun to play. Only the temperamental camera holds it back by modern standards. I agree with you about Sunshine, though. As I've said before, that game might have the best controls of any 3D game I've ever played, but on a gameplay level, it's frustrating, awkward and occasionally tedious. A low point in Nintendo's character design, too.

My own hot take: Super Mario World might not be my favourite game of all time, but I do think it's as close to perfect as any game has ever come. Literally nothing is anything less than great in that game.   

colacentral

Quote from: madhair60 on October 12, 2017, 12:39:15 PM
Er, no. I can think of about nine non-Mario 3D platformers I'd rather play than Mario Sunshine. But dubbnt rilly matta dub it.

Go on then.

Quote from: madhair60 on October 12, 2017, 10:29:47 AM
Well, as it's better than Mario 64, not really. Mario 64 doesn't even remotely hold up. Sunshine is always fun to bum around in, but it's easily the weakest and least polished mainline Mario platformer. Tons of frustration. Bloody blue coins. Samey environments.

How can you say it's better than Mario 64 then two sentences later say Sunshine is easily the weakest mainline Mario game?

colacentral

I get why everyone likes Mario World, but I find Mario Bros 3 to be a much better game, primarily because of the save feature in Mario World which makes it far too easy.

Kelvin

Quote from: colacentral on October 12, 2017, 03:52:07 PM
I get why everyone likes Mario World, but I find Mario Bros 3 to be a much better game, primarily because of the save feature in Mario World which makes it far too easy.

Funnily enough, the lack of any save feature is my biggest issue with SMB3. I honestly don't know how kids were meant to get through that game in one sitting without finding secret whistles and so on. It's just too big to be played without them.

Beagle 2

I've never got anywhere with Super Mario World. I love all the other Mario games, just always get bored really early with SMW. That's insane isn't it? Maybe I'll have another crack at it to get over never being able to afford a Switch ever.

FredNurke

I completed SMB3 in its entirety, once, just to prove I could. I also used to be able to speedrun the thing in about 17 minutes using the two warp whistles in world 1, but the last time I tried that it was an embarrassing farce. Still managed it, but took twice as long and lost loads of lives in the process. I'm over the hill.

Hemulen

Quote from: Beagle 2 on October 12, 2017, 03:59:45 PM
I've never got anywhere with Super Mario World. I love all the other Mario games, just always get bored really early with SMW. That's insane isn't it?

I have the exact same issue! Can't put my finger on exactly what puts me off it so much, but I've never been able to make any progress with it. Perhaps it's down to me never having owned a SNES?

biggytitbo

I don't think Super Mario 3D is anywhere near as good a game as Super Mario World, but that's because I think the mechanics, controls and graphics have dated quite badly on the former yet hold up as great as ever on the latter. Pretty hard to argue it isnt one of those most innivate and influential games ever though.

Mango Chimes

Quote from: Hemulen on October 12, 2017, 04:32:49 PM
I have the exact same issue! Can't put my finger on exactly what puts me off it so much, but I've never been able to make any progress with it. Perhaps it's down to me never having owned a SNES?

I think it probably has been done a disservice by the games that followed it. Mario 1 is followed by a 2, a completely different game. Mario 3 is a completely different game again; Mario 1 but moreso. World is kind of the best of 2 and 3, and makes leaps in all sorts of directions enabled by the technology. World influences Land 2 and 3 on the GameBoy and is what Mario is for years. Yoshi's Island is a whole new game again.

But since then, the New series has made the World era an anomaly. The New series – largely a bit disappointing – harks back to pre-World. In World, Mario is light and floats; before and after, he's more skittish and heavy. Visually too the surrounding games are more consistent with each other. The 2D bits in 3D World and 3D Land also feel more non-World than World.

World's perhaps the last time the series wasn't heavily nostalgic (at least in 2D). In context, for new players, it probably feels like a bit of a weird deviation from the path.

But try to reconsider it, because it's brilliant.

Replies From View

There's a Mario game from the olden days that has a plumber who goes into pipes to get like coins and jump on mushrooms and that?  A very vague memory I'm afraid but you might want to check it out.  Try googling "Mario".  I believe the company was called something like "Nintendo", so maybe include that in your google search.  Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.

Thursday

WE KNOW! Duh!  Did you actually think nobody else here had heard of it? HAHA you idiot!

brat-sampson

I'm usually stunningly shit at Mario games (I mean taking into account they're meant to be pretty accessible, I've finished a bunch... eventually) but god damn if I can't wait to be shit at this one too! It's looked great since the first trailer, but holy shit was the E3 one something special. Just constant escalation, then more escalation. Utterly un-fucking-believable how much imagination and joy looks to be packed into this monster.

The best reactions came from the Easy Allies guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWgTRU5DmHw

Shay Chaise

I actually forgot how awesome that first E3 trailer was. The use of the cap for platforming was like, yeah, that's really cool, love it, a step forward and then from the frog onwards you're just like hahaha yesssss no way hahaha my god


madhair60

Quote from: Beagle 2 on October 12, 2017, 03:59:45 PM
I've never got anywhere with Super Mario World. I love all the other Mario games, just always get bored really early with SMW. That's insane isn't it? Maybe I'll have another crack at it to get over never being able to afford a Switch ever.

Because the level design and aesthetic are significantly inferior to every other 2D game in the series. It's the worst one and it isn't even close. Forced replays of levels, map that makes you run around in circles, way too many shitty water levels, replacing the tight linear design of Mario 3 with big open empty barren worlds, zero challenge from beginning to end... no, it's not insane. It's just accurate.

It's still an excellent game. Just markedly inferior to every other Mario.

Kelvin

This thread is going from mad to worse. Next hot take: the original Super Mario Bros has aged terribly, and is now the worst platformer in the entire series. The slipperyness of Mario makes it needlessly frustrating and imprecise. Like nearly every 8 bit game, it's worth playing only for it's place in history.

Bazooka

Super Mario Land GB is the best because he has a plane and a submarine, best soundtrack too:


Beagle 2

I think Super Mario Land 2 was one of the first games I actually completed. I am shit at video games, so it must be the easiest one.

madhair60

Quote from: Kelvin on October 13, 2017, 09:08:26 AM
This thread is going from mad to worse. Next hot take: the original Super Mario Bros has aged terribly, and is now the worst platformer in the entire series. The slipperyness of Mario makes it needlessly frustrating and imprecise. Like nearly every 8 bit game, it's worth playing only for it's place in history.

Nah, SMB is still great. Always has been, always will be. Incredibly taut bit of game design. World, on the other hand, is a meandering bore by comparison. Too easy, too empty, kinda ugly.

Again, it's still excellent. It's just not as good as 1, 2, 3, Yoshi's Island, NSMB (any).

Beagle 2

SMB3 is the best video game of all time, surely? It's absolutely perfect. I'm still as excited to boot it up now as I was when I first saw it. Even the wife likes it.

Beagle 2

Hmm.

QuoteEurogamer translated the text that accompanied this footage and found that it reads: "Even if Mario's health drops to zero, you'll just lose 10 of your coins. No matter how many times you fail, though, there is no Game Over!"

Next you'll be telling me they've put fucking crafting in it.

Bazooka

Quote from: Beagle 2 on October 13, 2017, 11:14:19 AM
Hmm.

Next you'll be telling me they've put fucking crafting in it.

Nintendo have put in easy lives/gold tanooki suit etc in for the last few Mario games, on the plus side completing the games 100% is no easy task.

Bhazor

Lives in Mario games have become more and more pointless over the years. Ever since Mario World let you save after every level the games have kept lives seemingly just as a tradition. I mean what's the worst that happens when you run out of lives in 3D World or the Galaxy games?

madhair60


Beagle 2

Quote from: Bazooka on October 13, 2017, 11:19:27 AM
Nintendo have put in easy lives/gold tanooki suit etc in for the last few Mario games, on the plus side completing the games 100% is no easy task.

I DON'T LIKE CHANGE

Yeah I can never be fucked to complete anything 100% ever though. I just want to get to the end. Am I enjoying this? Don't know any more. Doesn't matter. Got to finish the level, then read those, do some sit-ups, learn the clarinet.

Last Mario game I played was Mario 3D Land and that was good. Now I want to play that again. Can I realistically buy a 3ds without anybody finding out? Can I realistically buy a Switch without anybody finding out? I could create a secret compartment in the cistern. That's where Zammo hid his drugs, and look at him now, he's President of the United States of America.


Sebastian Cobb

On 6 gold coins I worked out that you could switch off (or reset) your gameboy just as mario starts his death sequence and it wouldn't manage to decrement the lives in the save.

Then again I often just used to do the bubble game a load of times to get tens of lives anyway.

Bazooka

Quote from: Beagle 2 on October 13, 2017, 12:16:32 PM
I DON'T LIKE CHANGE

Yeah I can never be fucked to complete anything 100% ever though. I just want to get to the end. Am I enjoying this? Don't know any more. Doesn't matter. Got to finish the level, then read those, do some sit-ups, learn the clarinet.

Last Mario game I played was Mario 3D Land and that was good. Now I want to play that again. Can I realistically buy a 3ds without anybody finding out? Can I realistically buy a Switch without anybody finding out? I could create a secret compartment in the cistern. That's where Zammo hid his drugs, and look at him now, he's President of the United States of America.

Whats wrong with buying a 3DS?

colacentral

Quote from: madhair60 on October 13, 2017, 08:35:20 AM
Because the level design and aesthetic are significantly inferior to every other 2D game in the series. It's the worst one and it isn't even close. Forced replays of levels, map that makes you run around in circles, way too many shitty water levels, replacing the tight linear design of Mario 3 with big open empty barren worlds, zero challenge from beginning to end... no, it's not insane. It's just accurate.

It's still an excellent game. Just markedly inferior to every other Mario.

I don't quite agree with how harsh you're being but I agree with the overall sentiment that Mario World is a bit overrated, and it was the very first game I owned, so it's not to do with not playing and appreciating it at the time.

But, you still haven't named these nine games that are better than Mario Sunshine, or justified the inane contradictory comment I quoted upthread.

madhair60

Soz, didn't actually clock that response til you mentioned it.

Quote from: colacentral on October 12, 2017, 03:46:33 PM
Go on then.

Alright, but you won't like it!

- Jak 2: Renegade and Jak 3 (These run together as one massive, excellent adventure)
- Ratchet and Clank 3 (Pure quality, compulsive and brilliant)
- Alice: Madness Returns (Overlong but consistently well-made)
- Banjo-Kazooie (Dumps all over Mario 64 imo)
- Maximo (Old-school hard, brilliantly designed)
- Crash Bandicoot 2 (Best linear 3D platformer ever)
- Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures 2 (Honestly excellent recent 3D platformer, total throwback)
- Spyro the Dragon (Relaxing and expansive without being overwhelming)
- Rayman 2 (Genius)

QuoteHow can you say it's better than Mario 64 then two sentences later say Sunshine is easily the weakest mainline Mario game?

Yeah that was poorly thought-through. I should have said "otherwise weakest".

Again, a weak Mario game is still usually brilliant. I wouldn't give Mario Sunshine anything less than an 8/10 and that's a high 8. And while I don't like Mario 64 I acknowledge its contribution to the medium.

Twed

I think that before replying to that post we should all take some time to remember that all opinions on art and entertainment are all personal choices and none of them are bad, despite the objectively wrong thing madhair just wrote.