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Super Mario Odyssey - and some general chat about Mario games

Started by Kelvin, October 12, 2017, 02:19:30 PM

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Mister Six

Quote from: popcorn on September 04, 2018, 07:11:08 AM
But tutorials - text and videos explicitly telling you how to do stuff - have been demonstrated over and over again to be a weak way of teaching people how things work. In games and other areas.

People don't retain information by being told about it in advance. They learn through experimentation and repetition.

But those screens just repeat stuff you've already learned. And where they don't, it's all taught in-game anyway.

They're redundant but hardly a fucking crime against humanity.

EDIT: Note to self - read the thread, dummy.

popcorn

Finished the main campaign. It's all right. Doesn't really escalate much. Bit thin. Bit bland. Fun to get a moon. It's fine.

Unlocked the final suit.


Replies From View

I'm presuming you guys are already aware of Super Mario Flashback:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OklCQ8GY9xg

Nice designs I reckon.

Mango Chimes

Quote from: Replies From View on September 09, 2018, 08:44:17 PM
I'm presuming you guys are already aware of Super Mario Flashback:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OklCQ8GY9xg

Nice designs I reckon.

It looks lovely. So lovely, I find it odd that it was made public like this, rather than the creators thinking, "hold on, we could have a new Shovel Knight, here." Tweak the enemies, swap the Mario sprite for something very not Mario, and you've got a really pretty, viable platformer with Mario mechanics and Rodland looks.

Bhazor

Quote from: Replies From View on September 09, 2018, 08:44:17 PM
I'm presuming you guys are already aware of Super Mario Flashback:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OklCQ8GY9xg

Nice designs I reckon.

That looks great. Way better than that New Super Mario Bros style.

Quote from: Mango Chimes on September 09, 2018, 09:14:22 PM
It looks lovely. So lovely, I find it odd that it was made public like this, rather than the creators thinking, "hold on, we could have a new Shovel Knight, here." Tweak the enemies, swap the Mario sprite for something very not Mario, and you've got a really pretty, viable platformer with Mario mechanics and Rodland looks.

Its what I'm left wondering with every "fan remake". I remember the Streets of Rage remake made entirely from scratch over the course of 8 years and was immediately shut down by the rights holders. If they had just taken that work and just pallette swapped all the IP stuff they could have had a commercial quality indie game out of it. But nope. They had to call it Streets of Rage and throw away all that work.

https://kotaku.com/5791059/fan-made-streets-of-rage-remake-pulled-after-request-from-sega

popcorn

Finished the main quest. edited: forgot I already posted this.

Started mucking about with getting extra moons in the levels, but decided I can't be fucked. This game doesn't escalate. I want to navigate fiendishly difficult obstacle courses, not round up sheep and clean posters off walls.

Also: I notice that when you move between worlds after completing the main quest, suddenly there are none of the tutorial bits I was complaining about. They just load fast. So perhaps they were never necessary in the first place eh..............

Kelvin

Have you tried the silver pipes that appear after you smash the moon rocks? Those are the hardest moons. Although even they aren't long obstacle courses, just harder platforming challenges.

I disagree that the game doesn't scale in difficulty. It adds harder moons once you complete the main quest in each level and once you hit the moon rocks after completing the game. I do agree it lacks sustained section of complex platforming (with the exception of the final secret world), but then that's because it's inspired by the 3D Mario games, not the more linear 2D ones. Mario 64 and Galaxy don't have a ton of hard stars either, and Sunshine only spikes in difficulty because of bad design rather than carefully scaled levels, generally. The 2d games have a more pronounced difficulty curve in their post game.

popcorn

Quote from: Kelvin on September 11, 2018, 03:51:40 PM
Have you tried the silver pipes that appear after you smash the moon rocks? Those are the hardest moons. Although even they aren't long obstacle courses, just harder platforming challenges.

Aye, cracked them open in a few levels and got some moons. It's just a lot of busywork and miscellaneous tasks, some more hard/irritating than others. And it's all just in... little disconnected bits. It doesn't add up.

QuoteI do agree it lacks sustained section of complex platforming (with the exception of the final secret world), but then that's because it's inspired by the 3D Mario games, not the more linear 2D ones.

Yeah, this is what I'm complaining about. I Understand That This Game Is Not For Me but I just don't get why anyone would want to play a Mario platformer that isn't about sustained, complex platforming. I got to the last world and it felt like things were only just beginning to get interesting, and oh whoops, you finished the main campaign, now you can muck about with Yoshi or whatever, have fun.

popcorn

I might give Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze a bash, as it has good reviews and appears to be more of a pwoppa platform game, but I don't really like the look of it. The actual look of it I mean.

Kelvin

Out of interest, do you like Mario 64? Because that has a similar approach to open world collection, and only contains a few, linear platforming sections.

Odyssey is just a huge platforming playground. You don't do loads of platforming for any one moon, but the moon's act as incentives to try a variety of skills and gameplay ideas, as you run around the worlds. The game does contain linear routes as you pursue the main quest in each world, but really it's designed with the moons as markers, not as end points, and with the cumulative effect that, if you play for ten minutes, you've done 5 different challenges and got five different moons. You've still done ten minutes of varied platforming, just not with the goal of obtaining one specific star.

Kelvin

Quote from: popcorn on September 11, 2018, 04:06:45 PM
I might give Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze a bash, as it has good reviews and appears to be more of a pwoppa platform game, but I don't really like the look of it. The actual look of it I mean.

I imagine you'll like it a lot more. It's just pure platforming, in the classic 2D style, but with nice graphics and a surprisingly hard difficulty for a Nintendo game. The secret levels, in particular, can be brutal.

Not sure what you don't like about the graphics, but it really looks nice, and the music is amazing.

popcorn

Quote from: Kelvin on September 11, 2018, 04:33:34 PM
Out of interest, do you like Mario 64? Because that has a similar approach to open world collection, and only contains a few, linear platforming sections.

Someone asked that on the last page. I haven't played it in 20 years and I suspect I wouldn't love it for this reason. Funnily, my fondest memory of it is the pre-Bowser pure platforming bits, which, well, yeah.

QuoteThe game does contain linear routes as you pursue the main quest in each world, but really it's designed with the moons as markers, not as end points, and with the cumulative effect that, if you play for ten minutes, you've done 5 different challenges and got five different moons. You've still done ten minutes of varied platforming, just not with the goal of obtaining one specific star.

It's the diluted, fragmented approach that weakens it for me. That and the abundance of tasks that are just boring. Smashing posters off the side of a building, that was the one that made me go "yep, time to move on now".

Kelvin

I do agree they should have cut a few hundred moons. 200 to 300, even. Luckily, the game only requires 500 to unlock the final level (which is a very hard, linear platforming challenge) so you don't need to collect the repeat moons to reach that point. If you're close to 500 moons, it might be worth reaching that landmark, just to try that final platforming challenge. Or just buy the moons in a shop, if you cant be arsed with the game anymore and just want to unlock it.