Mindhunter

[Shit Good Nose]

Me and Mrs Nose finished it this week.  We both liked it a lot and look forward to the second series. 

It does tail off whenever they're not talking shop, assisting with a case or interviewing killers, but when they are doing those things it's great TV.

SO refreshing to not have shaky-cam as well.  Other film and TV directors please take note.

[monolith]

Rewatching this at the moment. It really is superb, don't think I'm as excited about any other show at the moment.

But then the first series of True Detective seemed quite promising and we know what happened there...

[Shit Good Nose]

Series two now up.

Me and Mrs Nose smashed through it over two nights.

Amazing stuff, and it goes for a bit more long-form arc storytelling now it's got to the point where the unit starts getting involved with current cases.

There's a bigger focus on Bill Tench, which gives Holt Mccallany a bit more well deserved stretching room.  And Cameron Britton is absolutely phenomenal again, despite having minimal screen time.

Lots of genuine humour as well.

It's again left open for another series, and given this second series has been received even better than the first one, hopefully it'll get the okay.

I'm tempted to get the book for Mrs Nose's upcoming birthday, but some of the reviews suggest three quarters of it focus on John Douglas' morning routine and what he had for lunch rather than the nitty gritty of the unit and its workings. 

[Fonz]

Series two now up.

Me and Mrs Nose smashed through it over two nights.

Amazing stuff, and it goes for a bit more long-form arc storytelling now it's got to the point where the unit starts getting involved with current cases.

There's a bigger focus on Bill Tench, which gives Holt Mccallany a bit more well deserved stretching room.  And Cameron Britton is absolutely phenomenal again, despite having minimal screen time.

Lots of genuine humour as well.

It's again left open for another series, and given this second series has been received even better than the first one, hopefully it'll get the okay.

I'm tempted to get the book for Mrs Nose's upcoming birthday, but some of the reviews suggest three quarters of it focus on John Douglas' morning routine and what he had for lunch rather than the nitty gritty of the unit and its workings.

The book is good. Worth reading.

[imitationleather]

Watched season 2 all in one fucking night, which made it a bit difficult to pay attention at points.

Interesting that they went down the one major storyline route by the end, it made it feel a bit like True Detective (except better). The lady character, whose name I have rudely forgotten, became a bit superfluous with just her boring lesbian relationship storyline. Also the boring evil kid storyline was boring. I am only interested in the murderers, guys.

I'd watch a third season.

[Shit Good Nose]

I am only interested in the murderers, guys.

Sort-of what I said with series 1, but I appreciate they're trying to flesh out the sideline characters a bit more rather than just have them as cardboard cut-out onlookers.  It also shows how the work the main characters do impacts on their personal lives, and vice versa.

Wendy(for that is her name)'s boring relationship storyline is important because it runs parallel with her increasing interest in being out in the field - so she's coming out of her shell a bit more professionally and personally.  It's also almost certainly setting up some confrontations with the other characters in series 3 (assuming it happens), what with even the normally liberal Bill complimenting her on the "dyke story".

[Ja'moke]

Really enjoyed Season 2, but yeah, the side stories are weak. I get the thematic reasons for the storyline with Hench's kid, but it never quite worked for me.

I wish they did a side story with Jim (the black agent) instead. Has anyone read the book? During the time of the Atlanta murder investigations, his wife tried to have him killed! She hired two hitmen, they shot him, punctured his lung, but he survived.

[Shit Good Nose]

Really enjoyed Season 2, but yeah, the side stories are weak. I get the thematic reasons for the storyline with Hench's kid, but it never quite worked for me.

I wish they did a side story with Jim (the black agent) instead. Has anyone read the book? During the time of the Atlanta murder investigations, his wife tried to have him killed! She hired two hitmen, they shot him, punctured his lung, but he survived.

Tench.  As in the fish.


Without having read the book or knowing what happened in reality, I'm wondering if, after Jim's solid work in this series and Gregg dropping the ball a couple of times (plus the fact that the team's new boss clearly doesn't like Gregg), they'll bring him in as part of the team in series 3.  It would also reflect the changing attitudes towards black people in the force at the time.  I hope they do cos I think Albert Jones has a lot of screen presence, and he's a really interesting character as well.

[Ja'moke]

Haha, that was a typo. I knew it was Tench!

If it gets a third series (not holding out hope given Netflix's current cancellation kick), then yeah, I think bringing Jim into the team would be a smart move. They also brought on board the first female FBI profilers in the early 80s, so they could introduce another woman to the team too.

[confettiinmyhair]

Wasn't it mapped out by David Fincher for five series?

I think I enjoyed series two more than series one. I liked the focus on Tench's domestic strife. I'm guessing some of the interview's with sexual deviants are planting the seed for Dahmer and Bundy in series three.

[surreal]

Wasn't it mapped out by David Fincher for five series?

I think I enjoyed series two more than series one. I liked the focus on Tench's domestic strife. I'm guessing some of the interview's with sexual deviants are planting the seed for Dahmer and Bundy in series three.

Yeah, Fincher has said whatever happens it will run for 5, he seems to have something worked out with Netflix about it (this was mentioned in an interview I was reading with Holt McCallany this week)

https://www.slashfilm.com/mindhunter-seasons/

During the course of the interview, McCallany revealed that in one of his very first meetings with Mindhunter producer and director David Fincher, Fincher talked about plans for at least five seasons: "He said 'Listen, are you ready to do this for five seasons? Because even if I fuck it up, it's gonna go five seasons, and I don't intend to fuck it up.' So I'd like to think that we will continue, for as long as David is intrigued by telling this particular story."

It has to continue into the 2000's anyway as BTK was finally caught in, what, 2005?

Not sure they've caught anyone so high-profile since then that I recall hearing about (correct me if I'm wrong) so maybe that was intended as a wrapping up point?

[Ja'moke]

The OA also had a five season plan which Netflix was apparently committed to. But it got cancelled two weeks ago. So I wouldn't be surprised if Mindhunter goes the same way.

It has to continue into the 2000's anyway as BTK was finally caught in, what, 2005?

Not sure they've caught anyone so high-profile since then that I recall hearing about (correct me if I'm wrong) so maybe that was intended as a wrapping up point?

The Golden State Killer was caught in 2018. Not sure if these FBI guys were involved.

[Jim_MacLaine]

and Richard Ramirez was caught in 85'. Again not sure if the FBI were involved but i'm guessing they would have created a profile.

I still keep getting caught period wise by hearing the contemporary Numan and Pretenders tracks on the soundtrack. I've had it in my head from season 1 that this was set in the 60's. Very odd.

Now listening to the Atlanta Monster podcast for some further background.

[Shit Good Nose]

I think I enjoyed series two more than series one.

This series has been received even better than the first one critically and so far has something like two or three times the viewing figures at this stage of its release, but the first series obviously came out fairly quietly (a fanbase was built up and word of mouth spread by the time series 2 came along) ans, as Ja'moke alludes to above, popularity and reception don't necessarily mean too much to Netflix - their aim is to keep cranking out brand new material rather than flogging horses, even if those horses are still very healthy and still running. 

I hope it does go the full five - it's probably my favourite TV show since The Wire.

I've had it in my head from season 1 that this was set in the 60's. Very odd.

I've been EXACTLY the same.  Had to keep reminding myself that it was now in the 80s.  It's the drab browns and fashions from the 70s that were still around in the early 80s.

[surreal]

The OA also had a five season plan which Netflix was apparently committed to. But it got cancelled two weeks ago. So I wouldn't be surprised if Mindhunter goes the same way.

Yeah, but the OA used interpretative dance to get out of a school shooting so I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did...

[Shit Good Nose]

Yeah, but...

REALLY????

Hahahahaha - Mrs Nose is watching it (I'm not bothered, despite loving Brit Marling), but I don't think she's got to that bit yet...

[surreal]

I still keep getting caught period wise by hearing the contemporary Numan and Pretenders tracks on the soundtrack. I've had it in my head from season 1 that this was set in the 60's. Very odd.

Are we in about 1981 now, timeline-wise?  That was when they caught the Atlanta Child Murders suspect I think.  Once again some kind soul has put the Mindhunter soundtrack listing together as a playlist on Spotify so they're both on there along with the score if anyone is interested.

[Ja'moke]

Yeah, but the OA used interpretative dance to get out of a school shooting so I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did...

And that's why I loved it. The second season even more than the first. I'm still holding out hope that the cancellation is just part of the third season's meta-narrative... but it's looking less likely by the day.

[surreal]

REALLY????

Hahahahaha - Mrs Nose is watching it (I'm not bothered, despite loving Brit Marling), but I don't think she's got to that bit yet...

Ooops... I've commented out the spoiler from the end of S1, you might want to do the same...

[paruses]

[...]
Now listening to the Atlanta Monster podcast for some further background.

Any good? I like this long form side story and want to know more about the real thing.

Enjoying this more than S1 but in S1's defence I watched the whole thing pretty much travelling between either Ireland or Romania so it was on more as a diversionary tactic than for its own sake. I do feel that they've got the pacing better in this season though.

Also keep thinking that it's a late 60s setting. For some reason I have lately become very aware of how shiny America is in period pieces compared to the same UK time. But I think I would notice a vast difference between late 60s Britain and the early 80s. I am not sure there is such a stark contrast with the States so maybe that is part of the issue. The colours and massive cars that only seemed to shrink and modernise in the mid 90s don't help either.

Disappointed that they've not cut the opening credits down. Still hitting "forwards 10s" 9 times when they start.

[Piggyoioi]

Binged this in one sitting while working, so only giving it half my attention. Really well directed/shot but the content just feels a little damp. I really think David Fincher could polish a turd.
Anna Torv is very sexy and seeing her have lesbian sex is really nice but that plot just went nowhere. Would of liked to of seen more from her more closely aligned to the main plot, maybe more interviews?

Also as a side point, anyone else find the mothers of the missing black children annoyingly aggressive toward Holden? From their perspective he was the only one giving them the time of day and the show seems to give them the wisdom of the viewer in regards to his more self interested motives.

[surreal]

Also as a side point, anyone else find the mothers of the missing black children annoyingly aggressive toward Holden? From their perspective he was the only one giving them the time of day and the show seems to give them the wisdom of the viewer in regards to his more self interested motives.

I'd put that down to a general (very understandable) mistrust of anyone in authority, and as he is the one mostly interacting with them he gets the brunt of it

[Shit Good Nose]

Anna Torv is very sexy and seeing her have lesbian sex is really nice but that plot just went nowhere. Would of liked to of seen more from her more closely aligned to the main plot, maybe more interviews?

As I said in an earlier post, that whole (sub)plot was really just to flesh out her character more I think, as up until then all we've seen of her is the end of her previous relationship and a very robotic uber-professional character.  Also I suspect more interviews will be in the offing - she's now wanting to extend her wings a bit more whilst the new boss wants her to stay in the basement crunching numbers, which is clearly pointing towards some sort of clash between them in future series.

I'd put that down to a general (very understandable) mistrust of anyone in authority, and as he is the one mostly interacting with them he gets the brunt of it

Yar, plus the fact that when he presents himself to them and says what he does, it's something that they've never heard of and don't really understand (cos it was still quite a new thing, even then) and, from their point of view, they therefore don't even have a proper fed stood in front of them.  One of them also comments on how young he is so, even though we know Holden is a clever fuck who has come up with all this stuff, to them he just looks like a white boy rookie.

[Piggyoioi]

Yar, plus the fact that when he presents himself to them and says what he does, it's something that they've never heard of and don't really understand (cos it was still quite a new thing, even then) and, from their point of view, they therefore don't even have a proper fed stood in front of them.  One of them also comments on how young he is so, even though we know Holden is a clever fuck who has come up with all this stuff, to them he just looks like a white boy rookie.

I understand why they would be angry and skeptical at the initial meeting, but after he transparently states his intentions every time they don't soften and seem to get more angry and petulant. How exactly is getting angry and possibly alienating the only guy talking to you gunna help you find your children? They felt too much like mouth pieces for the writers commenting on the system and pushing the themes of the series in regards to Holden rather than actual characters.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Any good? I like this long form side story and want to know more about the real thing.

Pretty good. It's 10 episodes. Gives a pretty good overview of the case, other suspects, trial and era. Also has access to the man himself (Wayne Williams), the officers including FBI, witnesses, lawyers and journalists.

Apparently nobody knows what happened to the reward money to this day.

[Shit Good Nose]

Also has access to the man himself (Wayne Williams)

Your opinion based on that as to whether he's innocent or guilty?

[Jim_MacLaine]

Your opinion based on that as to whether he's innocent or guilty?

He doesn't say anything that would convince me otherwise and so guilty of the murders he was charged with. There was apparently more damning blood evidence found AFTER the conviction.

With regard to the children. Probably, some of them. It's his creepy M.O. I think.

Definitely think some racist types may have been opportunistic.

[biggytitbo]

I will illegally download this at some point in the near future as I really enjoyed the first one.


Since Rader wasn't identified and caught until 2005, they're never going to get there in this series are they? So is the intention just to have him hover in the background for the entire run and it never be resolved?

[Puce Moment]

Watched season 2 all in one fucking night, which made it a bit difficult to pay attention at points.

Interesting that they went down the one major storyline route by the end, it made it feel a bit like True Detective (except better). The lady character, whose name I have rudely forgotten, became a bit superfluous with just her boring lesbian relationship storyline. Also the boring evil kid storyline was boring. I am only interested in the murderers, guys.

I'd watch a third season.

Basically almost exactly what I was going to post. Hate-watched season 2 over the last day because I'm home with a horrible infection. I can't stand Fincher, but like Zodiac so for me this stands up ok for entertaining UK.

The use of savanty flawed male characters can get to fuck, as can the ludicrous Trench kid murder story which I thought was a real stretch of narrative over-lapping. The most interesting character from the unit becomes reduced to her sexuality as the boys go about saving all those poor black boys.

The use of Manson was not only salacious and ill-conceived, but acknowledged at least twice within the show itself as completely outside of their purview. The actor was marvellous (as are most of the killers in this I would say) but within the logic of the show I felt it didn't make sense. Has anyone read the book - did they really go to see Manson to help with their project to profile lone-acting, compulsive serial killers? How did any of that help?

[imitationleather]

Oh yeah, when Manson decided not to see them I thought they'd come to their senses and opted not to include him after all (because as soon as his name was mentioned I was going "Nooooo! Don't do it! It's just going to be some actor being overly weird and it makes no sense anyway!"). In the end his appearance was alright, but the whole thing was a bit of an unnecessary diversion.