"Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck" Sorts Of Films

[DukeDeMondo]

Inspired by the thread devoted to the director's new film, I've been thinking again about the extraordinary Tangerine, and turning it over in my head this way and that. It straddles a few genres, Tangerine. It's an It Happened (One Day And) One Night sort of a picture, and it's a Christmas Time sort of a picture, and it's an LA Caper sort of a picture, and it's whatever sort of a picture, but above all else it is a Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck sort of a picture.

Everything about it looks up you and down you and tuts and wheels round and says Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck. You can come if you're coming or you can fucking well stand there. Up to you, but it'll be fucked if it's waiting for you. Could see itself, like. Wouldn't fucking even.

It's the purest expression of the Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck kind of film that I can think of.

I don't know if Steve Neale or anyone of that stripe has ever gone any way towards offering a definitive account of the Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck sort of film, or if any work worth mentioning has been done towards mapping the genre, or establishing and dissecting its tropes and its rules or anything else. But you know them when you see them, I reckon, these films, and this is the place to talk all about them. What other films say Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck?

[Shit Good Nose]

Not having seen Tangerine, I'm not sure I completely understand where you're coming from - do you mean films that intentionally have contempt for audients that don't get swept up in them for whatever reason?

If so - Scott Pilgrim (which I can't fucking stand).

If not - no idea.


Do you have any other examples?

[bushwick]

Not in terms of genre-smashing but in terms of crazy audacity and gleeful audience-pummelling I would say Gaspar Noe's I Stand Alone.

Freddy Got Fingered as well surely, a true auteur's statement - a horrifying and heartfelt Freudian catharsis and the ultimate troll prank movie AT THE SAME TIME.

[Steven]

The two that immediately spring to mind happen to cover the exact same subject matter as Tangerine, corrupt cops and prostitution:

Sidney Lumet's Q & A

Nick Nolte plays Mike Brennan, a "bad lieutenant" with a penchant for trannies and murder. Here he is observing his flock with his very personable genteel hands-on approach. It's a very seedy and humorous film that gets more swaggeringly excessive as it goes on, I recall a funny bit where Brennan visits a transvestite dancing troupe at a gay bar and goes back stage after the show to question one of the dancers:

Reads sign on the door `UNLESS YOU WANT TO FUCK ME, KEEP OUT!!'

Brennan: [Laughing] That's some sign you got on the door out there. l guess since l'm here, l got no choice, huh?

Jose: Lieutenant.
                   
Brennan: Boy, that's some show you guys put on. No, really.
                   
Jose: You were there tonight.

Brennan: Damn right. Jesus, l could have sworn those were girls up there dancing.
       
Jose: That chorus, they work really hard.

Brennan: Jesus, that end guy, what legs. That gets a guy horny, you know?
                   
Jose: His name is Michael, like yours.

Brennan: No shit? Wow.



Then of course there's the actual eponymous Bad Lieutenant, but I hardly need to endorse that one. A friend of mine can't watch Harvey Keitel in anything since because she sees him as that character forever now. Here he is helping a "couple of beautiful girls" handily wax their car:


                   
And an actual shining celebrity endorsement:

[mothman]

I don't know if it really applies, but I'd like to nominate 1988 film Cop, just for the sheer nihilism of James Woods' character and of course the final line of the film.

[touchingcloth]

[tag]Arsed Mate, Dogs (2017)[/tag]

[kidsick5000]

Both Crank films would fit this I reckon. Too giddy to make care about making sense

[DukeDeMondo]

Thank you for your contributions, all, and my sincerest apologies for such a useless OP. Really, what the fuck does that tell anyone about anything? Next to nothing. Nonetheless, some of the films listed here are I believe fit to be gathered under the rubric of the Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck sort of film.

It's not really contempt for the audience I'm talking about. You couldn't put Tangerine in that camp, I don't believe. I think the essentials are: characters who just don't give a fuck what you think of them or what anyone thinks of them, for better or worse. They've got shit to get on with, and anyway they're probably too cool to be bothered with you even if they had five minutes to spare, which they don't. They're off and running the minute we meet them, maybe on a quest of some sort, maybe just getting through the day which is a job enough in itself. You can tag along if you want but they'll drop you in a heartbeat if you can't keep up with them. These character traits inform the thing tonally and formally and structurally and all sorts of ways. And the pace of the thing. The pace is 90. And how it sounds. That's important too. Busy. The film will have an intoxicating sort of swagger about it, and a restlessness maybe, and it might be very inventive and even a bit show offy, but it doesn't seem to be trying too hard all the same.

Does that make any more sense?

Might Doug Liman's Go be such a picture? I haven't seen it in years and years, but I suspect it might be. I reckon Do The Right Thing definitely is.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Thanks for the explanation. I thought this was a Fuck Off, Then, See If I Give A Flying Fuck sort of thread.

It sounds like ultra '90s flick S.F.W. fits the bill. Stephen Dorff (for it was the '90s) stars as the bizarrely named Cliff Spab, whose nihilistic attitood in the face of death (the title stands for "So Fucking What?") makes him a national celebrity after he survives a televised hostage situation. Media satire type stuff ensues. I can't say if it's any good, as I haven't seen it in about 20 years, but I think teenage me liked it.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Natural Born Killers seems like a possible fit, though I haven't seen it since it's release so I've no idea how well it stands up. My teenage self quite liked it, but then my teenage self liked a lot of shitty things.

[touchingcloth]

If it's the main character(s)' not giving a flying fuck about other characters in the film, then Working Girl would fit the bill for both Melanie Griffith's and Sigourney Weaver's characters.

But, really, this thread is an unfocussed utter shambles. I'm still unsure about the goals of the thing.

[DukeDeMondo]

But, really, this thread is an unfocussed utter shambles.

It is a desperate looking sort of a thing at the minute, there's no doubt, but I believe it can yet make something of itself.

Both Claude and SMBH are walking the right sort of line. I would guess that both of those films are the kinds of chaps we're after. NBK might be trying a bit too hard to dazzle us and win us over, but mostly I think it deserves a place here. S.F.W would seem to fit the bill to a tee, and I suspect there are many other films from the 1990s that throw similar sorts of shapes, and they should also stand up and be counted, at some point.

[kidsick5000]

A protagonist that doesn't care what people think? Plays by their own rules?
Isn't that the majority of lead characters in all movies ever?

[zomgmouse]

Pink Flamingos and really most things John Waters ever did.

[newbridge]

Repo Man? The characters, irreverent plot, and preposterous ending seem to fit the bill.

[phantom_power]

Wild at Heart? I reckon that fits the bill. Most Lynch probably

Freddie Got Fingered? I haven't seen it but from what I can tell it is a big fuck you, I don't care what you think sort of film

Wild Zero?

[Steven]

You could also add Crank and Crank 2, except I suppose Statham's character does have a proper motivation to not give a fuck about anyone with what he's getting on with because of the whole 'must keep the heart pumping' dynamic.

Jim Carrey as Carl in Yes Man? Similary he acts like a complete narcissist but there's a motivation I suppose.

Michal Douglas in Falling Down is all about a white-collar bloke who just stops giving the slightest fuck which becomes a self-consuming suicide by proxy.

Frank in God Bless America, similarly to the above except obviously a comedy and delivered with a lot more silly bombast.

Johnny in Mike Leigh's Naked, wandering about London of a night ridiculing strangers and their lives as his own little form of amusement, also a few ambiguous scenes of sexual assaults thrown in there.

Tony Montana in Scarface, of course, is pretty much a wrong-un from the off thanks to his turbulant upbringing but elements of his playing by the rules and trust and respect seem to drop off as he begins to realise he can't trust anyone which feeds into his whole cocaine psychosis breakdown into madness.

Jordan Belfort in The Wolf Of Wall Street, similarly to Montana there's the whole drug-fuelled slippery-slope into a lifestyle of not giving the slightest fuck.

Pesci as Tommy/Nicky in Goodfellas and Casino, pretty much the same character who doesn't give the slightest fuck about the rules or anybody else until his trespasses come back to bite him.

Patrick Bateman in American Psycho? He only gives a fuck about the minor inconsequential details of his narcissistic lifestyle.

Beatrix Kiddo in Kill Bill 1/2? Doesn't give a fuck about surviving being shot at her wedding/a longterm coma/rape/shot/buried alive/fighting an army of fucks, all in the aid of getting revenge on Bill.

Tyler Durden in Fight Club. An imaginary idealogue who only cares about bringing down the entire system and doesn't care who gets in the way of his nihilistic aspirations.

Oh, and Ferris Bueller, there's the whole similar Tyler Durden-esque imagining of him as Cameron's 'not give a fuck' alter-ego which allows him to finally escape his whole anxiety-ridden authoritarianism of his father.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Beatrix Kiddo in Kill Bill 1/2? Doesn't give a fuck about surviving being shot at her wedding/a longterm coma/rape/shot/buried alive/fighting an army of fucks, all in the aid of getting revenge on Bill.

Surely she wants revenge precisely because she gives a fuck about all of that.

[Steven]

Surely she wants revenge precisely because she gives a fuck about all of that.

Well, it's similar to Falling Down where Douglas' character does actually take exception with tonnes of tiny social moments which he picks apart endlessly, but it just seems he's using them as excuses to justify his masses of internal anger which more obviously comes from his life falling apart and his wife and daughter leaving him, hence his going postal. He's constantly justifying his actions but his ultimate goal is to destroy the only thing he reall cares about, Detective Prendergast knows the only outcome is him killing his wife and daughter and taking them with him, which I think are a subconscious motivation for him but he eventually realises was his eventual end-game, hence his suicide by proxy.

I feel similarly that Kiddo goes through all these hardships like they are nothing, almost water off a duck's back all because she had her wedding ruined by her attempted murder, plus losing her baby, because all she's obsessed about is getting revenge on Bill. Dragging herself from her come bed and killing her rapists,trying to get her fucked legs working etc, the only thing keeping her going is the single-minded determination of revenge, the only moment where this murderous preoccupation drops for a slight second is when her fight with the Black Mamba is interrupted by her young daughter coming home from school, which again remind her of the mother-to-be connection taken from her by Bill.

[VelourSpirit]

Any Gregg Araki film, especially The Doom Generation.

From Wikipedia:

Roger Ebert famously gave the film "zero stars" and wrote "Note carefully that I do not object to the content of his movie, but to the attitude."

[Monsieur Verdoux]

roger could be a right old square sometimes

[Dr Syntax Head]

Wild at Heart? I reckon that fits the bill. Most Lynch probably

If nobody liked a Lynch film he would still make them in exactly the way he wants to. That is the mark of a true artist. He doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks, he's having a creepy potato baby and a lady singing in a radiator whether we like it or not.

[Dr Syntax Head]

Roddy in They Live does not give a fuck. He's just really fed up with those damn aliens

[Dr Syntax Head]

Repo Man? The characters, irreverent plot, and preposterous ending seem to fit the bill.

It really is punk in film form. I love that film so much

[Dr Rock]

Mean Streets must count - the structure was loose and experimental for the time (the use of modern and recent rock and pop styles on the soundtrack was pretty new*), and the main characters don't give a fuck what they're doing, or if you, the viewer, like it or not.

*Saying that has reminded me of Easy Rider, characters probably gave even less of a fuck, and it was also daring the audience to like it or not regarding the way it was shot and made.

[Dr Syntax Head]

I'm pretty sure everyone involved in the last X-Files film did not give a fuck. As long as the brand bought in some revenue. Damn I hate that film it was like being punched in the side of the head for no reason.

[Blumf]

Roddy in They Live does not give a fuck. He's just really fed up with those damn aliens

He is rather miffed about running out of bubblegum.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I heard that Biggins was pretty obviously lowering his game alongside Danny Dyer in Run for Your Wife.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Also I'll fight anyone who disses They Live or Repo Man.

[Dr Syntax Head]

Also I'll fight anyone who disses They Live or Repo Man.

I'll cheer you on