Robert Anton Wilson

[Foggy Buntwhistle]

Just wondering if any of youse lot are RAW fans? And if so your general thoughts about the man and his work?

Personally I'm a massive fanboy, having said that I've only ever read The Illuminatus! Trilogy, Cosmic Trigger and Prometheus Rising. If anyone's read any of his other work and has a recommendation would be glad to hear it.

I fucking love the man, I don't actually think his writing is the best ever and there are certainly plenty of novelists whose work I prefer. I do remember Illuminatus blowing my mind when I read in in my teens and I'd credit the man with probably being one of the biggest influences on my thinking and perspectives (reality tunnels!) in general. His adherence to a kind of hardline agnosticism toward pretty much everything is something I've kind of clung to throughout my life.

He was obviously scarily intelligent and just had a real natural with and charm, pretty much any of his talks on youtube are well worth a listen. He was certainly of his time and could be pretty far out with a lot of his ideas but was never dogmatic about any of it. He also just seemed like an honest to god decent fucking soul and seemed to emit warmth and good humour.

I also have some half baked theories about his influence on contemporary culture and how a lot of current conspiracy related stuff can be traced back to some of his writing and ideas. Operation Mindfuck being the most overt imo.

Anyway yeah, this thread will probably get 0 replies. Maybe.

[studpuppet]

I've been reading him for twenty years now. I'd describe his writing as a bit like Richard Feynmann lecturing. While you're engrossed in it, it's the most amazing insight you've ever heard/read. But afterwards, when you try to explain it to someone else, it's almost impossible to remember the intricacies and you only remember the general thread.

Middle shelf, just under 'All Out War':



The left half of that bay is RAW and Leary, and the fnord bag that's hanging up is from when I went to the play of Cosmic Trigger earlier this year.
I used to go to Compendium in Camden a lot and drool. Then I worked at Foyles for a bit and my collection *ahem* blossomed.

[Foggy Buntwhistle]

How was the Cosmic Trigger show? Wanted to go but didn't manage to make it.

[studpuppet]

How was the Cosmic Trigger show? Wanted to go but didn't manage to make it.

For me? Great - written/directed by Ken Campbell's daughter and four hours long. what's not to like? It was my birthday treat so I took my brother (aware of, but not read anything), my friend (read Illuminatus as a student) his wife, and my wife (both blissfully unaware of RAW, Leary, or Ken Campbell). Result? Two slightly baffled women, but the rest of us had fun!

[Petey Pate]

I've enjoyed what I've read of RAW, and he's been a gateway to other ideas and thinkers for me. The Illuminatus! Trilogy has a bit of a reputation as being one of those books that few people have actually finished (both members of The KLF claim to have never read the whole book, despite directly taking names from it and adopting its philosophy).

However I do wonder whether the influence of Discordianism and Operation Mindfuck did more harm than good.  I agree with their intentions - to make people question and challenge prevailing paradigms, but in an age where viral falsehoods have clear and potentially dangerous consequences, intentionally spreading misinformation seems less of a laugh than it did in the pre-internet era. Pizzagate could have easily been a throwaway joke in a modern version of Illuminatus!

[manticore]

Ever since a hippy started telling me about him around 1981 it's appeared to me that he indulges the same need as professional wrestling and Charles Fort - to simultaneously believe and disbelieve and so to not to have to take the responsibility to try to actually work out what's true. Perfect writer for the new age mind. The same hippy was a fan of Lobsang Rampa.

I've never read any of his books and would be happy to be told wrong. 

[Bennett Brauer]

The same hippy was a fan of Lobsang Rampa.

Fixed my leaky chakras and opened my third eye with a drain rod. Lovely bloke.

[manticore]

Ha! To be fair to the bloke, I don't think he knew that Cyril was a plumber and a fraud, and apparently he's quite a convincing writer if you're young and impressionable.

[Bennett Brauer]

I've only dipped into him here and there - I'm always too busy re-reading Chariots of the Gods - but it seemed a very plausible example of its type. Only ever met one fan, but couldn't bring myself to embarrass him with the truth, and it wasn't as if he was sending anyone money every month.

[Catalogue Trousers]

The man was a pretty good writer. I just wished that he'd channelled it into more than would-be mind-blowing 'governments are bad and drugs are cool mmmkay' stuff and passages that read like the wank-fantasies of a frustrated 50-something forced celibate.

[Foggy Buntwhistle]

Ever since a hippy started telling me about him around 1981 it's appeared to me that he indulges the same need as professional wrestling and Charles Fort - to simultaneously believe and disbelieve and so to not to have to take the responsibility to try to actually work out what's true. Perfect writer for the new age mind. The same hippy was a fan of Lobsang Rampa.

I've never read any of his books and would be happy to be told wrong.

I think that's  an unfair characterisation of his work. He doesn't absolve thinking. In fact I'd say he actively encourages a constant and intense questioning of absolutely everything, you own biases, perceptions etc being the most important thing of all to question. He often talks in terms of pragmatic probabilities, although I'd say he is probably sceptical of any sort of absolute truth.

The man was a pretty good writer. I just wished that he'd channelled it into more than would-be mind-blowing 'governments are bad and drugs are cool mmmkay'

I'd also say that's a bit reductionist, he certainly was a product of his time and leaned toward a libertarian type of small government. I personally don't have that as the take away from his overall "ouvre". I think his most interesting stuff is often when he talks about language, culture, technology, occultism etc. He is also wonderful to listen to about conspiracy stuff.

[Foggy Buntwhistle]

For me? Great - written/directed by Ken Campbell's daughter and four hours long. what's not to like? It was my birthday treat so I took my brother (aware of, but not read anything), my friend (read Illuminatus as a student) his wife, and my wife (both blissfully unaware of RAW, Leary, or Ken Campbell). Result? Two slightly baffled women, but the rest of us had fun!

Nice yeah it looked really cool from the bits and pieces I saw, should really have made the effort to get to it but life stuff gets in the way innit.

However I do wonder whether the influence of Discordianism and Operation Mindfuck did more harm than good.  I agree with their intentions - to make people question and challenge prevailing paradigms, but in an age where viral falsehoods have clear and potentially dangerous consequences, intentionally spreading misinformation seems less of a laugh than it did in the pre-internet era. Pizzagate could have easily been a throwaway joke in a modern version of Illuminatus!

Yeah I think that's a really interesting question. I wouldn't want to overstate his importance either obviously the current cultural place we find ourselves is more complicated than that. I do definitely think there's a weird filter down of a lot of that kind stuff though, especially into early web culture and how that in turn trickles and filters and mutates into what we have today. And certainly somewhere like 4chan is inherently "discordian" in nature. I don't personally think it's an either/or binary of good and bad or harm or whatever though. It is kind of all those things no? In true Bob-esque fashion it's both good and bad and neither. Maybe innit.

[manticore]

As a paid up High Priest of the Church of the SubGenius I have noted that Wilson was a High Pope of that Organisation, so maybe I should give him a chance.

[studpuppet]

As a paid up High Priest of the Church of the SubGenius I have noted that Wilson was a High Pope of that Organisation, so maybe I should give him a chance.

And also a Discordian Pope, like me...

[Hammer]

I thought Illuminatus! needed a better editor. Moments of brilliance interspersed between shite. Could have been half, or maybe three quarters, as long. I got about halfway through before giving up.

I've also read Prometheus Rising but stopped, although that was because I was reading it on the computer.

What's Chrono Trigger like? Is it better edited than the other one?

[Foggy Buntwhistle]

Cosmic Trigger is more of an autobiographical type thingy, although still pretty far out and weird as you'd expect. I've only read the first volume (think there are 3) but really enjoyed it. It's a lot shorter and a much easier read than Illuminatus. RAW lead a pretty interesting life. Some of it is utterly heartbreaking and it left me with a more profound respect for the man to be able to remain (not without help) an optimistic outlook on life and humans in general. He seemed like a genuinely good soul.

[Steven]

Cosmic Trigger

[studpuppet]

Cosmic Trigger is more of an autobiographical type thingy, although still pretty far out and weird as you'd expect. I've only read the first volume (think there are 3) but really enjoyed it. It's a lot shorter and a much easier read than Illuminatus. RAW lead a pretty interesting life. Some of it is utterly heartbreaking and it left me with a more profound respect for the man to be able to remain (not without help) an optimistic outlook on life and humans in general. He seemed like a genuinely good soul.

when I read it at 19 it felt like there was almost one interesting, eye-opening insight or 'fact' on each page I read. I'm sure at the age I am now that wouldn't be the case, but I remember the cumulative effect was of being drawn along with him on the journey he took. It's also important to remember that his tongue is firmly in his cheek at times - the preface is a plea not to believe anything your senses perceive after all!

[Isnt Anything]

I found Cosmic Trigger I to be tedious hippy wank too silly couldn't finish it

But Cosmic Trigger III was excellent thought I had a pretty open mind but that book expanded it still further

I never read much if any of Cosmic Trigger II not sure why maybe i read somewhere it was like the first one but worse although looking on wikipedia the contents sound interesting so try again some day ?

note that near start of cosmic trigger 2 or prob 3 he slags off 1 for being over drug fuelled silly tedious hippy wank ;) may be not in quite those words though

Another book of his i liked was one where early on it has a discussion of the arbitrariness of calendars. Thought that was ct3 but checked wiki prob not so it was prob Right Where You Are Sitting Now which i think i remember enjoying whether it had calendars in it or not

You can find the calendar thing online at http://www.kelsung.com/calendar/RAW.htm but its not half as good outside the context of its surroundings

Illuminatus started off great but got serious hard going by halfway through as someone up there said needed a good editor like i do it was the bit on the beach with the goddess where I zoned out. still recommend it though for some interesting ideas at first

Schrodingers Cat i gave up with halfway through the first book and never recovered

Sex and Drugs was a most interesting read if you like those things the later edition I had said it had been a bit censored from the earlier one god knows what ? ! apparently the original is difficult to get hold of ?

tldr Cosmic Trigger III, RWYASN, S&D, Illuminatus hth.