Has anyone read 'All Out War'?

[Serge]

...the Tim Shipman book on Brexit? I was thinking of buying it, and his new one, 'Fall Out', which is about 2017 in politics, but wondered if anyone had actually read it and could confirm that this was a good thing to do? I'm imagining that they'll be like Andrew Rawnsley's two books on New Labour, a mix of politics and gossip, and plenty of stories about unpleasant people acting like twats?

[Talulah, really!]

Thought it was a very enjoyable book that handled the material very well in a way that keeps you engrossed, read it in a couple of days cos it was so enthralling. Does well at managing the tightrope between insightful detail and journalistic sweep, never getting so ground down in recording every last minute of every last meeting you lose sight of the big picture, even with such a range of characters.

It tracks the people and progress of the remain/leave campaigns and shows that far from inventive historical forces making themselves felt, it was a random series of mishaps and missed chances on all sides that landed us here today. In profiling all the major and minor figures it confirmed most of my prejudices suspicions, Farage and Banks are odious self important wankers, Boris Johnson is an egotistic monster wrapped around the fragility of a petulant child (and a wanker), Cameron is a light weight who put the conservative party before the country and George Osborne has always been the shrewder politician (he didn't want the referendum)(he's still a wanker, though).

Certainly after reading it you feel as if you know what it was like to be in those campaign rooms, feeling what the people felt, it is very immediate and involving, and considering the topic, very fairminded.

[studpuppet]

There's more swearing in the new one:

https://twitter.com/joetwyman/status/936212651482415104

I'd also guess that the Fall Out is a little more rough and ready, as he was writing it right up to the print deadline this time, to keep it as current as he could. He's a journalist, but a journalist for The Times (with all that that entails), so worth bearing in mind that there'll be that sort of agenda to what he writes.

[Serge]

The fact that he's a writer for the Times is what had put me off buying it so far, but I suppose I should get outside of the bubble a bit and give it a go. Will probably make them last minute additions to the Christmas list. Talulah's description pretty much fits what I'd hoped it would be, so definitely think it/they'll be a worthwhile read.

[Serge]

I'm about 200 pages into it at the minute, and it is a cracking read. It is shocking to realise that George Bleedin' Osbourne is actually the least objectionable person involved in all of this (on the Tory side), and it's also amusing to see the stories which are obviously people trying to make their actions sound better after the event. I'm still not sure I buy the idea that Boris went for Leave with his heart, though - I did wonder whether Shipman was being polite there to ensure he remains within the circle?

[Serge]

OK, after reading the next couple of chapters, forget what I said about Osbourne in the last post. I still don't quite buy Shipman's line on all of these Tories doing things out of the goodness of their heart, but then, I wouldn't, would I?

[Blinder Data]

OK, after reading the next couple of chapters, forget what I said about Osbourne in the last post. I still don't quite buy Shipman's line on all of these Tories doing things out of the goodness of their heart, but then, I wouldn't, would I?

The thing about these books is that the writers are usually so close to the subjects, it's written in their mold. Does the book ever explore why people voted for Brexit, like Osborne's swingeing cuts acting as a motivation for "forgotten" communities to vote for millions more for the NHS? Or is it just a rollicking romp of what happened? It's interesting contemporary history but it all feels a bit skin-deep (disclaimer: I haven't read it).

It would be good to know how Labour are portrayed...

[bgmnts]

The only Brexit books I have are 'Five on Brexit Island' and 'Five Escape Brexit Island'.

Havent read them yet though.

[Serge]

It would be good to know how Labour are portrayed...

So far, barely at all, other than Kate Hoey, who was tied up with Grassroots Out, though I suspect there is more on them later in the book.

Yeah, it's not really a book that looks in depth at why people voted for Brexit, though it is mentioned, admittedly through the prism of politicians saying why they thought it happened (I should mention that I'm only halfway through at the minute, so it may be covered in more depth later, though I doubt it.) 'Rollicking Romp' is closer to it, though it's more the story of how one of the biggest decisions in the history of the country was really left in the hands of some of the worst fucking people who ever lived.

[Neville Chamberlain]

...how one of the biggest decisions in the history of the country was really left in the hands of some of the worst fucking people who ever lived.

If any sentence sums up Brexit, this does.

[Serge]

I'm also not going to say how far I was into the book before I realised that 'spads' was an abbreviation for 'special advisors' rather than an insult.

[Neville Chamberlain]

Serge: it appears to be taking you more than 24 hours to read this book! What's going on?!?!?!???

[Serge]

It's over 600 pages long! Give a brother a break.

[Serge]

Finished it a short while ago. Not bad, certainly interesting to have got a glimpse into those rooms where decisions were (and weren't) being made, and, as Talulah says above, points out how shocking it is that so much of it was down to sheer chance rather than political nous.

Shipman's obvious rightward lean means that he seems more willing to believe the best of everyone in the Tory party, and I'm not sure I'd give some of them as much benefit of the doubt as he does - though as I mentioned above, it's possibly also a ruse to ensure that he still has the access he needs to carry on writing this stuff. His obvious huge crush on Theresa May in the closing stages of the book is hard to swallow, and it'll be interesting to read 'Fall Out' to see if he maintains this beyond her honeymoon period (which was still ongoing when this book was being written.)

As Talulah says, again, Farage and Banks really don't come out of it very well, though if anything, Banks makes Farage seem reasonable on occasion. Within the official Leave delegation, Dominic Cummings also comes across as an obnoxious, snarling bully-boy. I still don't buy that Johnson didn't have his eye on the prize and became a Leaver on the purest of motives, and he can try as hard as he likes, but Gove is never going to come across as a normal human being. Cameron putting the interests of his party before that of the country is a heinous act.

It's a shame that he obviously didn't quite have the access and/or interest to cover the Labour side in as much detail. Corbyn didn't really cover himself with glory during the referendum, but so much of the portrayal of him falls back on the hack right wing view of him that the media has been pumping out for the last couple of years (and in another failure of balance, why are a group of Corbyn's supporters referred to as 'a mob', a word Shipman wouldn't use against a group of Tory supporters of either persuasion?)

I was going to read 'Fall Out' next, but I'm hoping that my copy of the Trump book might turn up at work tomorrow, and I have a huge pile of others clamouring for my attention, so I might leave it a week or two before I get stuck into that....

[Peter P. Parrot]

Read it over Christmas and thought it was pretty gripping stuff. A couple of times it gets bogged down, particularly at the end, but that's probably to be expected with such a long book.

It is very much in the same vein as Andrew Rawnsley's books on New Labour, with the same caveats in that it's all written based on what his contacts have told him and he presents a version of the truth based on this. But it is no less fun or interesting because of that.

I didn't really have an issue with the Labour parts, it is clear that's not where his contacts base is, so he covers Labour enough for me - given the party's lack of role in the whole debate. Regardless of the author's leanings, Brexit was largely a Tory idea, war and then fallout in a Westminster sense.

There is little about why people voted for Brexit in working class communities, but I would read something by Matthew Goodwin for that sort of analysis (albeit I haven't read his actual post-Brexit book).