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March 28, 2024, 05:16:16 PM

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Prision sentences........are they long enough?

Started by Rubbish Monkey, February 19, 2004, 07:59:43 PM

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hencole

Quote from: "DevlinC"
Quote from: "hencole"Still suprises me how many people on this board favour the death penalty, at a guess I'd say more than the general population which is really saying something.

This from the man who threw a pikey off a cliff.

He lived didn't it? The f***ing bastard.

Quote from: "daveytaylor"
Quote from: "DevlinC"Clearly you need proof, but rape is not a difficult thing to prove. When reasonable doubt comes into play it can't be that easy but as a quick fire response the above was enough.

That's the problem it was a quick fire response. And I suspect that the above line is also a quick fire response. If I have claimed to have had consentual sex with a woman I have just met and she then cries rape later is that not a "difficult thing to prove". We are human and we make mistakes.

Oh for fucks sake... it was a quick fire response. There are other factors in rape trials. In reality, if I was suddenly given the power to kill someone and I was told that a group of men had raped a girl, I would question, however there comes a point where the truth is the absolute truth. One question I would ask about this particular case is "maybe it was a gangbang fulled by alcohol and crack that she now regrets and has decided to pretend was rape". However, I'M NOT THE JUDGE and from my vantage point, it would seem these fucks are guilty. I was simply talking out of hatred, disgust and a desire to do revenge on those that do that.

Quote
Quote from: "DevlinC"Anyone you care about ever been raped?

Sorry but this is another thread. We are talking about crime and punishment here and if you want to ask me about the poor quality of victim support in this country and how victims can feel worthless and simply a statistic by the system then do it in another thread. Otherwise this thread is just going to get
too complicated.

The subjects are related enough to belong in here. Those fucks, assuming they are guilty, have scarred that girl for life. She will never forget that. One of them gets out in 18 MONTHS. He'll just carry on with his life. Unfair, yes?

5 Knuckle Shuffle

The thing is, we've always been a murderous & treacherous lot as human beings, and always will be. I'm not sure whether we initally had laws to stop people from murdering, raping or robbing, or actually instigated laws to weedle those 'perpertraitors' out and remove them society. The bottom line is, laws don't stop people from doing something if they really want to do it, so I think before we can argue whether the sentence fits the crime, it'd be better to find out why people commit crimes in the first place.
It's bit like dealing with the horse's bolt, after he's left the stable door., as the saying doesn't go.

A Passing Turk Slipper

Quote from: "daveytaylor"
Quote from: "weekender"Seriously, I'd bring back the death penalty.  It'd act as a massive deterrent

But it doesn't. This is shown time and again in America where States who bring in the death penalty see no drop in crime figures and States which stop the death penalty see no rise in crime figures.

The death penalty is not a deterent.
It would deter me. I would think again about commiting a crime if I thought there was a possibility of it resulting in my death. I would much rather face a long prison sentence than death.

El Unicornio, mang

One thing I don't like is, say you attack someone with a bottle, and they live, you get maybe a few months for GBH, but if by some chance they die, it's suddenly murder/manslaughter and you're looking at 15-25 years.
I think intent should be taken into account more than 'end result'. Although obviously this is harder to prove.

Timmay

Difficult to equate that same logic to accidents though. Say you're driving a bit too fast, and you knock someone down. They're a bit bruised and live, so you'd probably be done for driving without due care and attention - if they even wanted to press charges. Not sure what the penalties are, but I doubt you'd be looking at a ban of any kind, probably just points and/or a fine. If that person had stepped out that bit sooner and felt the full force of your vehicle, and they were to kick the bucket, you'd then be facing causing death by reckless driving, or something. I'd suspect you may face a ban and/or a custodial sentence based on how fast you were going.

Not the best example, but as you can see, there is no intent in either case, but both outcomes must suffer different consequences I feel.

daveytaylor

Quote from: "DevlinC"However, I'M NOT THE JUDGE and from my vantage point, it would seem these fucks are guilty. I was simply talking out of hatred, disgust and a desire to do revenge on those that do that.

And this is exactly why we need a reasonable force law and not simply allow people to take out whatever revenge they feel like on people who may or may not be criminals.

Quote from: "DevlinC"One of them gets out in 18 MONTHS. He'll just carry on with his life. Unfair, yes?

I don't know the answer because I don't know what he did. Do you? Yes a girl was raped and the difference in sentences suggest that a different series of crimes were committed. Maybe one raped her, maybe another one raped her and tortured her. In which case the later person will get a greater sentence.

Maybe this person who got 18 months was waiting outside for them in a car and knew nothing about what was going on but was an accomplise because he helped them escape the scene. Do you see what I am getting at? You are asking me to comment on something when I do not have full possession of the facts.

[I `m not an expert but I don't believe that when someone commits a terrible act that they think about the possible sentencing they may receive if caught. For example, a bloke finds that his wife is having an affair and is so full of rage he plans to follow him home from work and kill him. (Premeditated) Do you believe he's thinking `well I don't mind doing thirty years to natural but Id think twice if it were hanging` as though he is making a logical choice? The same as child killers, do you believe that less children would be killed if the death penalty was still in force or do you think that maybe some people are just very very sick/evil and in a country with 60,000,000 people these things will inevitably happen? (An average of 8 children are abducted and murdered each year, a figure that hasn't change all through the last century)
Also, if we still had the death penalty in the 70`s the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4 would all have been hung.
Like Clive Anderson said to John Redwood 'when all these people you've strung up turn out to be innocent, what are you going to do...cut them down? `

Quote from: "daveytaylor"
Quote from: "DevlinC"However, I'M NOT THE JUDGE and from my vantage point, it would seem these fucks are guilty. I was simply talking out of hatred, disgust and a desire to do revenge on those that do that.

And this is exactly why we need a reasonable force law and not simply allow people to take out whatever revenge they feel like on people who may or may not be criminals.

Which is what I just said, although you've edited it out.

Quote from: "DevlinC"One of them gets out in 18 MONTHS. He'll just carry on with his life. Unfair, yes?

QuoteMaybe this person who got 18 months was waiting outside for them in a car and knew nothing about what was going on but was an accomplise because he helped them escape the scene. Do you see what I am getting at? You are asking me to comment on something when I do not have full possession of the facts.

Ah but that's clearly not the case because the others only got up to 5 years. Assuming the guy who got 5 years has been found to have done the most to her - that's still far too short and he should be in there for life.

The bloke that got 18 months either got a far greater term than he deserved or a far shorter one, and as you say without knowing the facts we can't say, but all the sentences are stupidly short for the crime so it's fine to complain about it even though we don't know the exact circumstances.

The death penalty isn't a great deterrent.  The fear of getting caught is a far greater deterrent.

The death penaly is fucking shameful.  Just ask Sally Clark.  Even the myopic right-winger  John Gaunt admitted this case made him thought twice.

There are too may miscarriages of justice around to even consider a death penalty (I don't think we could reintroduce it anyway as we are members of the EU whose regulations/directives would not allow it- Legal eagles please correct me if I'm wrong).  Committing people to death is the act of murderers, not a civilised society.