Author Topic: Bond  (Read 18426 times)

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Bond
« Reply #420 on: September 12, 2018, 10:29:42 PM »
I bet they watched M:I Fallout and thought "Hang on..."
"Find out who represents that moustache!"

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Bond
« Reply #421 on: September 12, 2018, 11:55:24 PM »
Actually, yes, this absolutely makes sense. With Boyle dropping out they're back to square one with the film anyway, and Craig's made no bones about how much he hates the films. I bet they watched M:I Fallout and thought "Hang on..."

Craig clearly enjoyed playing the character in his first three entries, and there are a few scenes in Spectre (the confrontation with Mr. White, the drunken conversation with the rat, anything opposite Bellucci) where he makes a strong impression. But his lack of commitment in a few other sequences suggests that he wasn't comfortable with the direction of the story.

Meanwhile, it's always been something of a trick by a Bond actor to imply he may leave the part after this one. It paves the way for the tabloids to put together pieces on who may be the next Bond. I mean, Roger Moore hinted he would leave after Moonraker, then after For Your Eyes Only, then he made another two before leaving for good. EON Productions actually enjoys the free publicity. I personally never doubted that Craig would return and that the $100m he had refused were just bullshit. They just waited for the right moment to make the announcement and build interest in the next movie.
Creation Records and Parlophone had similar tactics in the nineties, when they basically started the fake rivalry between Blur and Oasis. The guys from Blur actually hated another band, Pulp, because of some old story about stolen groupies. But, for two years, Damon Albarn and the Gallagher brothers exchanged barbs and insults, just to mimic the Beatles vs Stones myths of the sixties and get a lot of headlines.

Craig actually has the best relationship with the Bond producers in ages, as he has some input on the casting and the script and he was even promoted to associate producer on Spectre, something that no other actor had got. EON remained in very friendly terms with Moore, and Cubby Broccoli stood for Timothy Dalton (who had originally been a last minute replacement for Brosnan on The Living Daylights) when MGM/UA forced them to get another actor on Goldeneye. He lost that fight, but they let Dalton make the announcement that he was giving up the part from his own choice, which wasn't true. Dalton was a pallbearer for Cubby Broccoli a few years later.

It's also obvious that Craig wants to leave the part on a higher note than Spectre.

Re: Bond
« Reply #422 on: September 13, 2018, 12:30:27 AM »
If that's the case, then just how terrible was Boyle and Hodges script?  It'll probably end up online, eventually.

Mister Six

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Re: Bond
« Reply #423 on: September 13, 2018, 04:31:51 AM »
Hasn't Craig been moaning about Bond movies since about Skyfall?

CaledonianGonzo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #424 on: September 13, 2018, 05:55:13 AM »
I think it's pretty clear that something went wrong between Craig and Mendes during the shooting of SPECTRE.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #425 on: September 13, 2018, 10:04:12 AM »
Maybe a failed love affair.

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Bond
« Reply #426 on: September 13, 2018, 12:15:02 PM »
The foster brother angle for Blofeld wasn't something that he enjoyed a lot.

Basically, John Logan (who had polished the script for Skyfall the same way Paul Haggis had been involved in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace) was writing some kind of a two-parter when the producers managed to buy back all the rights that still belonged to Kevin McClory's estate, mostly the character of Blofeld and Spectre. Until then, the films had tiptoed on the notion of another recurring criminal organization, and they created Quantum in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace as much different from Spectre as a way to avoid litigation (Quantum was collegial while Spectre is autocratic). When the deal was done, EON asked for Blofeld to appear in the next film, rather than reintroducing him after the end of the Craig era, as they wanted a quick return on their investment. Logan then was fired after he failed to deliver a draft that met everybody's expectations.

This resulted in the two parts of the story being mixed in the same script, that also handled the introduction of Blofeld, with Purvis and Wade (plus Jez Butterworth) taking all these duties. I suspect that Logan had originally planned to use Bond's foster brother as another member of Quantum for Bond 24, as he's much fond of the villain being related in some way to the hero (he says this in the extras for Star Trek: Nemesis. Don't judge me). And Mendes, Purvis and Wade, with the approval of the producers, were keen on keeping this brotherly link, and failed to realize it made the narrative for Blofeld totally ridiculous.

Thomas

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Re: Bond
« Reply #427 on: September 13, 2018, 01:20:34 PM »
That's interesting, Ant Farm, thanks. Tough gig for John Logan. The foster brother as vengeful villain is still very consciously cinematic to a silly degree, but much more palatable if he's just a low- or mid-level member of a global organisation - not the unchallenged, string-pulling master of it, manipulating events in all of the Craig films, somehow.

And that reminds me: when Q scans the SPECTRE ring for fingerprints, it handily retains the DNA of villains from Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall. We see their faces on Q's laptop, in quick chronological succession. This implies that Blofeld was mucking about with Bond's life in 2006 (CR and QoS) and then just left him for six years until a mission happened to go wrong in 2012. And this whole time, SPECTRE and Blofeld remained absolutely undetected by Western intelligence agencies. Can't have been up to much, really.

Le Chiffre attempted to kill Bond a couple of times in his selfish quest for personal wealth, and Javier Bardem's driven and single-minded Silva did the same - they certainly didn't seem to be acting with any overarching 'authorship of pain' in mind, on Blofeld's behalf. And with a boss like Blofeld you wouldn't deviate from your instructions, so what exactly were they really intending? Was Le Chiffre hoping Bond would survive the poisoning? Or did Blofeld permit him to kill Bond in such an offhand and anonymous way? That doesn't fit with what we see of his gloating and his feelings in SPECTRE.

In addition to making no sense, this retrospective motivation makes the world of espionage and international fuck-ups in these films seem much smaller.

thecuriousorange

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Re: Bond
« Reply #428 on: September 13, 2018, 01:21:51 PM »
Would James Bond have had the same career progression if all these impressive cases and jobs hadn't been dangled in front of him because the world's greatest supervillan is his sibling?

I can imagine Bond relaxing on holiday (yes, with a lady) at the opening of the next one, when his phone rings.

"OO7, this is M. Get the hell back here. Three Russian warheads have gone missing and the Popemobile has a bomb under it. Looks like your brother is up to his old tricks again..."

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Bond
« Reply #429 on: September 13, 2018, 01:57:19 PM »
The "author of all your pain" claim is indeed totally stupid, for the reasons you mention. Plus, it would mean that Oberhauser had built an entire organization, infiltrated governments and administrations, and committed crimes on a global scale with the ultimate goal of fucking up with some sibling that he hates. Definitely not a great way to get loyalty from your subordinates.
But this can be addressed and corrected easily. They only have to explain that he made these claims mostly to get Bond mad at him, and exaggerated a little. Like he wasn't that big an operative around Casino Royale/QoS and just provided some support for Silva. It wouldn't be entirely satisfying, but it would solve a few contradictions. And it would be coherent with how siblings tend to attack each other, in a childish way.

A more complicated issue is that his name change to Blofeld makes no sense. "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" meant something in the Connery/Lazenby films (or in the novels) because the character was mentioned (or heard) but not seen (or properly described) for years, before Bond finally meets him. There was a huge part built on mystery, due to the fact that he was operating behind the scenes. Here, he's just some megalomaniac villain who adopted this random alias that has zero meaning in the Craig universe. Couldn't there be some explanation at least? Like he killed his father near a place named Blofeld.
Mendes specifically asked Christoph Waltz to deliver the name in a very casual way, because of his experience with classic plays. There are lines like "To be or not to be" that the audience expects, and he prefers them pronounced naturally rather than emphasized, which destabilizes the audience and makes them focus on the text as a whole rather than on some highlights. But it falls flat in the film.

By the way, Daniel Craig hasn't said much regarding his disappointment with Spectre, but Waltz himself acknowledged he wasn't satisfied with his turn as Blofeld.

CaledonianGonzo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #430 on: September 13, 2018, 02:19:47 PM »
The Blofeld reveal is made worse by the fact that it was trap that Star Trek Into Darkness had already fallen into two years previously with Khan.

mothman

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Re: Bond
« Reply #431 on: September 13, 2018, 06:30:55 PM »
I suspect that Logan had originally planned to use Bond's foster brother as another member of Quantum for Bond 24, as he's much fond of the villain being related in some way to the hero (he says this in the extras for Star Trek: Nemesis. Don't judge me). And Mendes, Purvis and Wade, with the approval of the producers, were keen on keeping this brotherly link, and failed to realize it made the narrative for Blofeld totally ridiculous.

See also: Gladiator (where again hero and villain are foster brothers, of sorts).

CaledonianGonzo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #432 on: September 14, 2018, 11:48:40 AM »

Bad Ambassador

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Re: Bond
« Reply #433 on: September 14, 2018, 12:03:17 PM »
What an incredibly poorly written article. It states that P&W are writing a new script - they aren't, they're going back to the one from before Boyle came in - and that the 2020 release date will be missed - it's been moved from 2019 to 2020. Someone sub this berk.

mothman

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Re: Bond
« Reply #434 on: September 14, 2018, 03:48:14 PM »
Bet he's their new TV reviewer.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #435 on: September 14, 2018, 05:55:54 PM »
I'll write it.

mothman

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Re: Bond
« Reply #436 on: September 14, 2018, 06:31:57 PM »
Write a pitch and I’ll stand you lunch to hear it.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #437 on: September 14, 2018, 07:33:39 PM »
James Bond forgets his tuxedo and has to do the whole film in his underpants.


That's all I have written down so far because my pen broke.

mothman

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Re: Bond
« Reply #438 on: September 14, 2018, 07:49:38 PM »
James Bond forgets his tuxedo and has to do the whole film in his underpants.

That's all I have written down so far because my penis broke.

FTFY

Dr Rock

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Re: Bond
« Reply #439 on: September 14, 2018, 07:54:37 PM »
2019 - Corbyn's Britain. The trade unions rule the country with an iron fist. Enter James Bond.

That's all I've got. I think it should also feature Dracula as the baddie.

thecuriousorange

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Re: Bond
« Reply #440 on: September 14, 2018, 08:10:33 PM »
The only Ian Fleming James Bond story titles that haven't been used are "Risico" and "007 in New York". I imagine people don't know what "Risico" means but it could totally be the title of Craig's final movie. Just say it's  the codeword for a bomb or satellite or something. It sounds like a casino game and maybe even is one.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #441 on: September 14, 2018, 08:34:59 PM »
2019 - Corbyn's Britain. The trade unions rule the country with an iron fist. Enter James Bond.

That's all I've got. I think it should also feature Dracula as the baddie.


Is the Dracula in his underpants aswell?

mothman

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Re: Bond
« Reply #442 on: September 14, 2018, 08:35:57 PM »
Under their clothes, EVERYBODY is in their underpants.

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Bond
« Reply #443 on: September 14, 2018, 11:09:11 PM »
The only Ian Fleming James Bond story titles that haven't been used are "Risico" and "007 in New York". I imagine people don't know what "Risico" means but it could totally be the title of Craig's final movie. Just say it's  the codeword for a bomb or satellite or something. It sounds like a casino game and maybe even is one.

You forget at least "The Hildebrand Rarity", but they referenced it in Spectre, as the name of the safehouse.

Apparently, the production title for Bond 25 is "Shatterhand". Shatterhand is Blofeld's alias in Japan in the You Only Live Twice novel (which is, in the book series, the followup to OHMSS, and the "revenge story").
Not to be confused with Shatherhand, the alias for a high-end escort who provides very peculiar services.

Dr Rock

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Re: Bond
« Reply #444 on: September 14, 2018, 11:49:44 PM »

Is the Dracula in his underpants aswell?

No. In this Dracula wears ladies clothes. Because he's from TRANS-ylvania.

Re: Bond
« Reply #445 on: September 15, 2018, 12:16:40 AM »
Not to be confused with Shatherhand, the alias for a high-end escort who provides very peculiar services.

Wow - Lex Barker was a high-end escort?!

kidsick5000

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Re: Bond
« Reply #446 on: September 15, 2018, 01:16:51 AM »
Wow - Lex Barker was a high-end escort?!

Wow. If there's an award for deepest cut, it's a shortlist of one...

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond
« Reply #447 on: September 15, 2018, 08:56:39 AM »
No. In this Dracula wears ladies clothes. Because he's from TRANS-ylvania.


On a serious note, I want to see a trans James Bond and if you don't you're transphobic and I have no time for you.

Re: Bond
« Reply #448 on: September 15, 2018, 10:45:59 AM »
Surprising no one:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/sep/14/james-bond-25-007-writers-neal-purvis-robert-wade-rehired

I wish they'd bugger off and give someone else a chance. It seems they've been writing them since 'The World is not Enough', which is also when the series became turdulous and un-Bond like.

Phil_A

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Re: Bond
« Reply #449 on: September 15, 2018, 01:37:58 PM »
I wish they'd bugger off and give someone else a chance. It seems they've been writing them since 'The World is not Enough', which is also when the series became turdulous and un-Bond like.

It does beg the question, is no-one else available to write a Bond movie at short notice? Did these two guys end up getting a lifetime gig based purely on their ability to turn a script in on time?

Years ago I caught a bit of some Channel 4 Schools programme, part of which was a behind-the-scenes featurette from The World Is Not Enough. From what I recall, Purvis & Wade seemed to be most concerned and the importance of coming up with a funny name for the female lead so that Bond can make jokes about it.