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Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 1)

Started by Norton Canes, January 07, 2018, 05:29:21 PM

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Replies From View

Quote from: mothman on July 17, 2018, 02:04:24 PM
Well, he is on Countryfile every week...

I never watch Countryfile unfortunately.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: mothman on July 16, 2018, 05:03:12 PM
And now the healing can begin.

I noticed this on the series 11 Wiki page:

A "brief" appearance I can probably handle...

It'll almost certainly be a brief comedy cameo. I like Lee Mack, but as an actor he can only really play 'Lee Mack'.

Frank Skinner isn't the world's greatest Thespian either, but the Orient Express episode showed that he's capable of playing a character unlike his standard comedy persona. In any case, I can't imagine Mack being particularly interested in the idea of playing a substantial, semi-dramatic supporting role.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

I'm hoping to enjoy the next series as much as everyone else on here, but Chibnall's list of Who credits is so desperately uninspiring. Granted, every single episode he's written so far was a Godlike beacon of genius compared to everything he wrote for Torchwood, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

Even his best episode, The Power of Three, is quite bland and forgettable. It's not terrible, but it feels like an early draft of an RTD script. I'm more than willing to be proved wrong, but nothing in his Doctor Who canon so far suggests that Chris Chibnall has any interesting and inventive ideas of his own. Every episode he's produced is, at best, basically a competent pastiche of work by other, better writers.

I hope the rumours of him running a US TV-style writer's room are true. Not because I particularly want Doctor Who to be written that way, but if it means we get fewer episodes written by the man himself, then that can only be a good thing.

I can imagine him being quite good at steering the show with assistance from a talented team of scribes. RTD and Moffat writing several episodes themselves while delivering substantial rewrites of other people's work wasn't really a problem, as they're both great writers with a clear vision of what they wanted the show to be.

I don't doubt that Chibnall has his own particular vision too, but can you imagine sitting through a series of Doctor Who in which, like his predecessors, he wrote at least five episodes himself, including the two-part series finale?

Ach, I dunno. I don't want to sound too pessimistic, and I certainly don't want to disparage this series before I've even seen a minute of it (that would be demented). I want Chibnall to prove that my/our fears are unfounded – not by writing great episodes of his own, as I don't think he's capable of that, but by co-devising a splendid new era of Doctor Who alongside a team of inspired writers.

Fingers crossed, eh?

Malcy

Nothing against Chibnall personally. Enjoyed his episodes more than Moffats and I thoroughly enjoyed Torchwood. Also I think him having complete creative control over his episodes will be a benefit as well.

Blinder Data

Quote from: Norton Canes on July 17, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Will Jodie be using just the one expression during her entire tenure?

I think I've described her as blank-faced before. TBF I've only seen her in Broadchurch and, while her accent was convincing and other aspects of her performance were commendable, she remained blank-faced and a little one-note.

I'm not getting an expressive vibe from her though. Hopefully she'll prove me wrong. If not, it could be a loooong series.

Quote from: Malcy on July 17, 2018, 09:51:45 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed Torchwood

Ban this sick filth

Malcy

Quote from: Blinder Data on July 17, 2018, 09:54:09 PM
Ban this sick filth

I did though. It went somewhere different. It changed my mind about the Welsh accent which I used to detest. And it had some cracking episodes in its run.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Malcy on July 17, 2018, 09:51:45 PM
Nothing against Chibnall personally. Enjoyed his episodes more than Moffats and I thoroughly enjoyed Torchwood. Also I think him having complete creative control over his episodes will be a benefit as well.

I have nothing against him personally either, he's probably a lovely fella, but he's not a very inspiring writer. The self-consciously grimdarksexy first series of Torchwood was, by and large, an embarrassing mess, but the lighter Scooby-Doo tone of series two signaled an improvement.

Children Of Earth was outstanding, but Chibbers didn't write that. I can barely remember anything about the American spin-off, apart from the big talking vagina at the end. He didn't have anything to do with that series, so can't be held accountable.

The notion of Chris Chibnall having complete creative control over anything, Doctor Who especially, is quite dispiriting. Admittedly, the first series of Broadchurch was pretty good, but his ability to sculpt an engaging whodunnit aimed at adults isn't really relevant when it comes to running the hit family sci-fi series Doctor Who.

As I say, I don't actually want to be right about any of this.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Blinder Data on July 17, 2018, 09:54:09 PM
I think I've described her as blank-faced before. TBF I've only seen her in Broadchurch and, while her accent was convincing and other aspects of her performance were commendable, she remained blank-faced and a little one-note.

I'm not getting an expressive vibe from her though. Hopefully she'll prove me wrong. If not, it could be a loooong series.

I personally didn't find her blank or one-note in Broadchurch. Not at all, she gave a powerful performance. Last year she starred in a BBC One drama about a nurse masquerading as a doctor, which, while rubbish, benefited from her impressive, nuanced performance. She was better than the material.

She's a good actor capable of expressing a range of emotions - you know, as actors should - so I wouldn't worry about her having just one facial expression while playing the Doctor.

mothman

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on July 17, 2018, 09:36:34 PM
I hope the rumours of him running a US TV-style writer's room are true.

Didn't they subsequently reveal that they hadn't been able to set this up?

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

I'm not sure, it's always been a rather vague rumour.

Jodie Whittaker was great in the wonderful Adult Life Skills, very much looking forward to the new series.

olliebean

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Chibster has a 5-year plan for the series. Which, based on the fates of other series with 5-year plans, probably means cancellation after year 4.

It's about time someone took a Stalinist approach to planning for a kids tv show.

Replies From View

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on July 17, 2018, 10:16:27 PM
I'm not sure, it's always been a rather vague rumour.

Yes; I don't think there was anything concrete about it one way or the other.

The other rumour (probably mainly because we haven't heard of any writers yet) is that Chibnall has written all of series 11 himself.

Phil_A

Quote from: Replies From View on July 17, 2018, 10:58:03 PM
Yes; I don't think there was anything concrete about it one way or the other.

The other rumour (probably mainly because we haven't heard of any writers yet) is that Chibnall has written all of series 11 himself.

Pierce Wanger was saying back in February that they had "several female writers" on board, so that implies it's not all Chibnall. It's odd that none of them have been named yet, though.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-who/news/a851111/doctor-who-series-11-writers/

Norton Canes

Quote from: dontrunyoullfall on July 17, 2018, 10:39:41 PM
Jodie Whittaker was great in the wonderful Adult Life Skills

She was, a fantastic performance. In fact that character would have made a perfect new Doctor - mannerisms, costume, everything. With Brett Goldstein as Brendan, her companion.



purlieu

I quite enjoy the first couple of series of Torchwood, but I'm also aware that the writing is staggeringly uneven and absurdly juvenile. Chibnall's first episode was a female alien who shags blokes to death, then he did one about a Cyberwoman with tits and high heels. The mixture of adolescent sex chat, Tim Burton fantasy and attempts at 'dark' sci-fi is really, really bad. The serious character stuff is painfully heavy-handed. It's still quite fun to watch in a daft, light hearted way, but writing of that calibre isn't something I'd wish for on Doctor Who. Like Moffat or not, he had a bold and original style and direction for the show, whereas Torchwood was a terrible mish-mash of ill-fitting ideas and no clear overall style.

That said, if he's ever going to pull out all the stops and go all the way to put out his strongest work, it'll be when he's doing Doctor Who. I still have some hope for it.

Robot DeNiro

Moffat's ideas were great, but his female characters were awful and the constantly quippy dialogue really began to grate.  Judging him by Broadchurch, I'm expecting Chibnall will bring us better characterization and hopefully more natural dialogue, which will be a nice change.

I thought Moffat's first season was his best, partly because it felt like he was channeling RTD to an extent, presumably to make the transition less jarring.  I wonder if we can expect a similar "Chibnall does Moffat" approach this time?

Replies From View

Quote from: Robot DeNiro on July 18, 2018, 01:36:02 PM
I thought Moffat's first season was his best, partly because it felt like he was channeling RTD to an extent, presumably to make the transition less jarring.  I wonder if we can expect a similar "Chibnall does Moffat" approach this time?

Moffat was entering the show during a time when it had only recently been brought back, and he had to give the sense in series 5 that Doctor Who hadn't changed that much, since Tennant and RTD were considered crucial to the success of the show and viewers had to be convinced that it could survive without them.  Moffat needed to keep the show going, rather than step in and reboot it again, 2005-style.

With all Moffat's callbacks to the 55 year history of the show, I think Chibnall now needs to do what RTD did, which is to start as if the show has no history at all, other than what will create a sense of mystery.  In that sense, any kind of transition between showrunners is less vital now.  RTD gave the Doctor the weight of the Time War; Chibnall could create something a bit less "heavy" and still bring intrigue.

Having said that, I think that Chibnall will be advised to channel the successes of his predecessors by the BBC.

purlieu

Quote from: Replies From View on July 18, 2018, 02:28:59 PM
With all Moffat's callbacks to the 55 year history of the show, I think Chibnall now needs to do what RTD did, which is to start as if the show has no history at all, other than what will create a sense of mystery.  In that sense, any kind of transition between showrunners is less vital now.  RTD gave the Doctor the weight of the Time War; Chibnall could create something a bit less "heavy" and still bring intrigue.

Having said that, I think that Chibnall will be advised to channel the successes of his predecessors by the BBC.
Hopefully this will happen:
Quote from: purlieu on July 17, 2018, 11:47:18 AM
Quote from the article that ties in with earlier discussions in this thread:

"If you've never seen Doctor Who, or want to introduce your children or family and friends to it, this series it the perfect point to start," says Chibnall. "It was really important to me that there's no barrier to entry. You don't need to know anything that's come before. We've got a new Doctor, all-new characters, all-new monsters, all-new stories."

Replies From View

Series 10 was promoted as being a good way in for newcomers as well, and to a certain extent it may have worked (I especially liked the way the Doctor was rooted in his setting for quite some time before we caught up with him via the companion).  I think that what let it down was the horrible fake regeneration scene that, as well as being just an unpleasant thing for the Doctor to do to his companion, would have been baffling to anyone not already familiar with the process.  Plus I suppose once all the stuff with the Master and Missy kicked in, some awareness of the show's history was presumed.

Thomas

Quote from: Robot DeNiro on July 18, 2018, 01:36:02 PM
Moffat's ideas were great, but his female characters were awful and the constantly quippy dialogue really began to grate.  Judging him by Broadchurch, I'm expecting Chibnall will bring us better characterization and hopefully more natural dialogue, which will be a nice change.

I hope Jodie's Doctor is naturally Doctory, too. Nothing worse than forced wackiness when the character is already fascinating and strange, and should simply bleed an alien eccentricity, rather than having it thrust upon them. Remember when the Eleventh Doctor was carrying a Barbie doll around in his pocket?

Offering jelly babies at inopportune moments? Yes. That confused tangled motion of arms and legs when the Doctor was first kissed by River Song? Yes. Barbie doll? Mate. Question mark jumper? Mate.

Capaldi seemed to have an inherent Doctoriness, expressed often in his hair, his voice, his deft hands, and his spidery movements, and suffused throughout the fantastic Series 10 (save the fake regeneration), but incongruous details were occasionally pasted on top. The running joke about his internet history, for example. Bit weird, wasn't it?

Replies From View

I don't remember the Barbie doll moment at all.  Which story was that?


Oh, and while we're at it, Jammie Dodgers:  no.  Can't be doing with the Doctor endorsing branded products.

Thomas

It was in 'Cold War'. The Soviet lads are emptying his pockets, and they find the sonic screwdriver (of course), a ball of twine (fair enough), and a Barbie doll.

I must admit I quite liked the Jammie Dodgers, particularly as an addendum to the list of things he needed in the Oval Office. '... six Jammie Dodgers, and a fez.' Though I'm glad that, in that funny moment in 'The Lodger', when the Doctor has taken Craig's place at work, the biscuit is unspecified, and not used as an opportunity to hammer home the 'the Doctor likes Jammie Dodgers' concept.

I don't mind the fez. That was a fun (and necessarily striking, considering the various time hops) silhouette in 'The Big Bang'.

Replies From View

Ah yes.  I've not seen that story more than once, though I do recall it being one of Gatiss' stronger efforts.

I guess I should rewatch all the Ice Warrior stories in order at some point.  It's weird to think that in the last five years the total number of Ice Warrior stories has gone up by a third.

Norton Canes


Replies From View


Thomas

Quote from: Replies From View on July 18, 2018, 06:42:00 PM
It's weird to think that in the last five years the total number of Ice Warrior stories has gone up by a third.

And the Zygons by two thirds. (That is, from one to three).

Norton Canes

Quote from: Replies From View on July 18, 2018, 06:54:39 PM
Sorry; I meant went up from 4 to 6

Ah. Thought you were including Mission To Magnus or something.

Thomas

David Tennant is the Doctor - in The Muppets Take the O2.



And so is Peter Davison:



A crafty phone-haver has uploaded their appearances to YouTube - Peter and David.