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Hellraiser: Judgment

Started by Viero_Berlotti, January 10, 2018, 07:52:09 PM

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Viero_Berlotti

New trailer out now. I thought Clive Barker was going to be involved in this reboot, but apparently not. The prosthetic makeup on the Cenobites looks good, but I'm not getting good vibes off this trailer. It looks like a mid 1990s NIN video. The cops chasing a serial killer story line raises alarm bells too and the serial killers 'crazy room' just looks like a parody of a tired horror cliche.

https://youtu.be/6T4oDRP69Xo

I re-watched the original recently and it still stands up today. The story was just so original and the horror so upfront and visceral. We're probably way beyond the point of there ever being another good Hellraiser film now though.

Steven

Looks a lot like a retread of Hellraiser 5: Inferno, not entirely a bad thing as it certainly had a few interesting elements but it was detective vs serial killer on the loose so yeah they're basically going for a Se7en type of vibe mixed in with the supernatural. The scary baby masks are right of Brazil, and it just looks/feels wrong having a Pinhead that's not Doug Bradley, but then we knew that after the Freddie without Robert Englund.

Namtab

No Barker, no point. The first one's a fantastic piece of work, as you say, so utterly different to any other horror, and one of my outright favourite films. The sequels are all varying levels of shite. Sorry Hellbound fans.

St_Eddie

#3
The trailer looks like a 'worst of' from all of the prior, straight-to-DVD sequels (all five of them).  Oh and the cinematography looks absolutely hideous.  Fuck this film.

Quote from: Steven on January 10, 2018, 08:05:29 PM
The scary baby masks are right of Brazil...

Definitely, the same thought occurred to myself, immediately.  It's the Brazil baby masks, mixed with the Butterball cenobite's face.

Quote from: Steven on January 10, 2018, 08:05:29 PM
Looks a lot like a retread of Hellraiser 5: Inferno...

They already did a retread of Hellrasier 5 with Hellraiser 6.  Seriously, it's the same basic plot (thinking you're alive but in actuality, dun dun duunnnnn... you're in Hell).  Also, everything past the fourth film, has been a completely separate horror script with Pinhead awkwardly crowbarred in for a couple of scenes, with the exception of Hellraiser 9 and possibly this film.  However, this film and 9 don't even have Doug Bradley playing Pinhead anymore (because they treated him like shit and offered him peanuts) but some imposter playing the role instead.

This is all about the studio retaining the rights to the series (if they don't keep churning out ultra cheap, terrible, straight-to-DVD sequels, then the rights revert back to Clive Barker, as well they should).  Also, it's worth noting that this film has been sat on a shelf, completed, for a couple of years now, which is hardly a positive sign.  Seriously, fuck this film.

I'll just leave this quote from Clive Barker here, regarding the previous installment abomination, Hellraiser 9...

Quote from: Clive Barker"I have NOTHING to do with the fuckin' thing. If they claim its from the mind of Clive Barker, it's a lie. It's not even from my butt-hole."

...and this excellent comment from the trailer's YouTube page...

Quote from: westgoten'We have such shite to show you. We'll tear this franchise apart. Jesus wept. And so did Clive Barker...'

==================================================================

Quote from: Namtab on January 10, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
...Sorry Hellbound fans.

No, you're quite right.  It's got some glorious visuals and sound design but the story is a nonsensical mess.

Quote from: Namtab on January 10, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
No Barker, no point.

I'm not sure that his involvement would have been a good thing. Have you read The Scarlet Gospels? It was quite bad. Barker seemed to be writing a gore-and-action-driven comic book when he was supposed to be writing a novel. I couldn't finish the thing, it was mind-numbingly adolescent. And it also broke continuity with all of the previous Cenobite stuff. Reinventing Pinhead for no good reason, and no real gains.

The new film looks like trash but I will probably watch it. Seems to be a bit more credible than the last one: Hellraiser Revelations

CaledonianGonzo

Maybe I'm too cynical, maybe I'm completely barking up the wrong tree, but wasn't The Scarlet Gospels basically a salvage job by Barker's business partner carved out of much bigger, more unwieldy novel written aeons ago before Barker's health collapsed?

Spiteface

At least this Pinhead looks better than the fat guy from the last one.

I did laugh at this about Pinhead in the new one. From Wikipedia:

QuotePinhead is the leader of the Cenobites, a faction of Hell composed of mutilated humans that serve the Order of the Gash, offering those who solve the Lament Configuration certain sadomasochistic pleasures.

"Order of the Gash" is just funny to me.

St_Eddie

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on January 10, 2018, 08:58:52 PM
Maybe I'm too cynical, maybe I'm completely barking up the wrong tree, but wasn't The Scarlet Gospels basically a salvage job by Barker's business partner carved out of much bigger, more unwieldy novel written aeons ago before Barker's health collapsed?

That does sound familiar to me.

Famous Mortimer

I watched all 9 relatively recently, and aside from the last one, they all had some sort of interesting idea in them, even if it was quite a small idea surrounded by an ocean of shite. I think part 4 is really quite good, especially the workprint version, which orders things properly and doesn't make quite so much of a pig's ear out of the Adam Scott-starring olde French times.

This appears to be another rights issue movie, so I'd suggest it's probably going to be more like part 9 than part 5 (I also thought part 5 was good in parts). Budget of $500,000, although what's in that trailer looks a bit more expensive than that so they've perhaps used every effects shot from the finished movie, or something. Anyway, I'll be there as soon as it's released, and fingers crossed.

Viero_Berlotti


Quote from: Famous Mortimer on January 10, 2018, 09:09:47 PM
I watched all 9 relatively recently, and aside from the last one, they all had some sort of interesting idea in them, even if it was quite a small idea surrounded by an ocean of shite.

The interesting idea is in the line, 'Angels to some, demons to others.' The idea that the Cenobites are not necessarily evil and may even seem angelic to a rare few masochistic individuals.

Unfortunately, the films never bear out this concept. The Cenobites are always portrayed as demons. Especially in Hellraiser 3, where Pinhead is reduced to a Freddy Krueger ripoff.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Default to the negative on January 10, 2018, 09:24:35 PM
Especially in Hellraiser 3, where Pinhead is reduced to a Freddy Krueger ripoff.
I love Hellraiser 3, it's just a big-budget bit of vaguely comic horror shlock. And Paula Marshall is really good in it, I think.

Yeah, they do completely drop the "they're not from heaven or hell, really" concept quite quickly and just make them demons, but Pinhead is still a pretty interesting character. I forget which one it is now, but there's one that Pinhead is barely in and could be removed from without really changing anything. Six, maybe?

St_Eddie

Quote from: Default to the negative on January 10, 2018, 09:24:35 PM
The interesting idea is in the line, 'Angels to some, demons to others.' The idea that the Cenobites are not necessarily evil and may even seem angelic to a rare few masochistic individuals.

Unfortunately, the films never bear out this concept. The Cenobites are always portrayed as demons. Especially in Hellraiser 3, where Pinhead is reduced to a Freddy Krueger ripoff.

Yes.  This has always bothered me too.  The whole concept of them not being inherently evil from Barker's writing, is a fascinating and thought provoking one.

mobias

 There was interview I read with Clive Barker recently where he said the classic line 'no tears please, its a waste of good suffering' was said to him during a visit to a really extreme New York S&M club by a male dominatrix. I bet there's no dialogue as good as that in this reboot.   

St_Eddie

#14
Quote from: mobias on January 10, 2018, 10:00:49 PM
I bet there's no dialogue as good as that in this reboot.   

PINHEAD: "Your furry box... you opened it; we came like geysers."

SANDRA: "Wh...wha...what the Hell are you, some kind of demon?  Some kind of... Pinhead?!"

PINHEAD: "Please don't call me "Pinhead", as it hurts my feelings.  Sometimes I wonder if you truly love me!"

SANDRA: "I've never met you before."

PINHEAD: "Wait, is that the time?!  I was supposed to... um, meet with... uh, Chatterer for a pint an hour ago!  He's gonna kill me!  Look, I'll... um, tear your soul apart tomorrow, promise.  Sorry, gotta go.  Bye."

SANDRA: ...

Steven

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 10, 2018, 10:25:30 PM
"Please don't call me "Pinhead", as it hurts my feelings.  Sometimes I wonder if you truly love me!

Did this ages ago:


St_Eddie


Mister Six

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 10, 2018, 09:37:37 PM
Yes.  This has always bothered me too.  The whole concept of them not being inherently evil from Barker's writing, is a fascinating and thought provoking one.

I've only read The Hellbound Heart and none of Barker's other literary takes on the characters but they're certainly portrayed as evil in that; they don't give a shit about their victims and they're quite happy to take Kirsty away for an eternity of torture even though she didn't want or expect to summon them.

I think the point is that they weren't originally supposed to be actual demons - as in minions of the Christian Hell - but ended up being portrayed that way in the movies.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Mister Six on January 10, 2018, 11:35:49 PM
I've only read The Hellbound Heart and none of Barker's other literary takes on the characters but they're certainly portrayed as evil in that; they don't give a shit about their victims and they're quite happy to take Kirsty away for an eternity of torture even though she didn't want or expect to summon them.

I think the point is that they weren't originally supposed to be actual demons - as in minions of the Christian Hell - but ended up being portrayed that way in the movies.

My understanding was, in at least some of Barker's works, that the cenobites viewed torture and sadomasochism as the ultimate form of pleasure.  They simply couldn't fathom that suffering wouldn't be pleasurable to a mortal human.  I may be remembering that wrong though.  Either way, you're right; they were never meant to be demons from a Christian Hell and like you say, that's how they were increasingly portrayed in the sequels, which was irksome.

Famous Mortimer

Oh, I'd forgotten part 8 was absolutely pitiful too, the one where Hellraiser is a computer game, and Lance Henriksen was the villain.

I don't think Barker has written an enormous amount about the Cenobites? And the most recent book with them in was pretty universally reviled...ah, I don't know.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on January 11, 2018, 12:15:51 AM
Oh, I'd forgotten part 8 was absolutely pitiful too, the one where Hellraiser is a computer game, and Lance Henriksen was the villain.

Everything past the fourth installment is varying degrees of awfulness but my least favourite would be the 7th film, with the aforementioned number 8 coming in at a very close second.  Those two in particular, were just simply embarrassing (in particular; the ghost train in 7 and the video game plot, clearly written by someone who's never played, much less seen, a video game before, in 8).

I honestly feel ashamed to have them sat on my shelf, lest they sully an otherwise fairly solid film collection.  No joke; I genuinely keep the straight-to-DVD Hellraiser sequels separate from all of my other DVDs (including Hellraiser 1 through 4).  They're hidden on an adjacent shelf, tucked between some books.  I'm being completely serious.

Shaky

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on January 10, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
I forget which one it is now, but there's one that Pinhead is barely in and could be removed from without really changing anything. Six, maybe?

Several of the sequels started off as non-HR scripts then had Pinhead and friends inserted at the last second.

Just watched the new trailer. "Evil seeks Evil". Fuck me. It just looks like a Saw film, which is probably the market they're desparate to tap into despite the director's hoary old claims like, "Ah, but I'm making a proper horror film and not that torture porn bollocks."

Mini

Quote from: Shaky on January 11, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
It just looks like a Saw film

That was my main thought. Admittedly I've only seen the first two Hellraisers (the first is a masterpiece and the second brought an abrupt end to my interest in the franchise) but yeah, this looks like balls.

The Hellraiser comic series, from the early nineties, was also quite a good exploration of the universe. Though some stories were better than others it did give more insight and quenched my need for more information  on Leviathan's 'hell'.
This thread has re-piqued my need to rea£ the, again. 

Agree with the flogging a dead horse comments on the film series. I always thought they jumped the shark a bit after the 2nd film Hellbound.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Shaky on January 11, 2018, 08:58:38 AMJust watched the new trailer. "Evil seeks Evil". Fuck me.

That bit made me laugh, though I was disappointed that it wasn't followed by "GSOH required, no one over forty, thanks".

Sexton Brackets Drugbust


batwings


Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Pinckle Wicker on January 11, 2018, 10:23:17 AM
Agree with the flogging a dead horse comments on the film series. I always thought they jumped the shark a bit after the 2nd film Hellbound.
I won't try and convince anyone to love part 3 as much as I do, but if you can find the fan-edit version of part 4, which edits it like the workprint but for every scene which is the same as the final film they just use the blu-ray, meaning it's not muddy pirate-VHS quality for most of its runtime, I'd recommend it.

ASFTSN

Quote from: Namtab on January 10, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
No Barker, no point. The first one's a fantastic piece of work, as you say, so utterly different to any other horror, and one of my outright favourite films. The sequels are all varying levels of shite. Sorry Hellbound fans.

Hellbound is quite good if viewed as a very eighties dark fantasy story rather than a horror film, like something out of one of the Sandman books or something.  Or maybe I just fancy that version of Julia (once she's got skin back on again I mean).  First film is god-tier horror, of course.

Shaky

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on January 11, 2018, 12:29:50 PM
I won't try and convince anyone to love part 3 as much as I do, but if you can find the fan-edit version of part 4, which edits it like the workprint but for every scene which is the same as the final film they just use the blu-ray, meaning it's not muddy pirate-VHS quality for most of its runtime, I'd recommend it.

The 4th one had some interesting ideas but the execution is pretty rubbish (an Alan Smithee movie and all that). I'm another one who really didn't like 3 so next sequel seemed a bit of a step up at the time, at least.