Hellraiser: Judgment

[ASFTSN]

I only saw part 3 for the first time recently and thought it okay - but Pinhead definitely starts to get too Freddy-ish with the wisecracks and such.

[Default to the negative]

I've only read The Hellbound Heart and none of Barker's other literary takes on the characters but they're certainly portrayed as evil in that; they don't give a shit about their victims and they're quite happy to take Kirsty away for an eternity of torture even though she didn't want or expect to summon them.

In Hellbound, Pinhead seems to take a principled stand on this issue, refusing to kill Tiffany because she didn't open the box with the proper intentions. But there is no real consistency to the way the Cenobites approach these matters. At other times they have no qualms about taking innocent or deceived victims.

Hellbound is quite good if viewed as a very eighties dark fantasy story rather than a horror film, like something out of one of the Sandman books or something.

I agree with that. If you take away the gore, the film has much in common with Labyrinth. A young woman enters an otherworldly maze to rescue an innocent child. In both films there is the subtext of her having an ulterior, repressed sexual motive for going there.

And if you want to get artsy about it then you could say the children represent the protagonist's own innocence and they are fighting to protect that innocence against adult life with its encroaching temptations. Whether those are the perversions of the Cenobites or the unabashed, gyrating stocking-bulge of David Bowie.

[St_Eddie]

Several of the sequels started off as non-HR scripts then had Pinhead and friends inserted at the last second.

They did the same thing with the Die Hard series (2 and 3, at least).  One series, to a point, worked out for the best and the other didn't, to say the least.

It just looks like a Saw film...

Doesn't it just!  Silly little billys; they should have noted that Jigsaw bombed hard, even though said film was in production way after Hellraiser: judgment was filmed.  Non-psychic Hollywood twats.

[A Car With No Doors]

I'm merely disappointed that they didn't manage to put the great Bruce Forsyth into one of these films before he passed away.

"We have such sights to show you, to show you: sights!"

[Shaky]

"Didn't they do Hell?"

[Mini]

"What do points make?"

[Default to the negative]

You could make a decent Bruce Forsyth origin-story set within the Hellraiser universe. The premise would be that in his early years, Bruce is frustrated that his career is moving too slowly. The catchphrases and the patter are not having the impact he hoped they would. He needs something to give him an edge over the competition. That's when a mysterious stranger tells him about the puzzle box: a gateway to untold powers and even 'immortality' of a sort. He summons the Cenobites and— after being flayed, torn apart and rebuilt in a grotesque new image— he makes his Faustian pact with them. A hundred years of showbiz glory in return for a steady supply of fresh souls, harvested from the contestants who didn't 'do well' on his game shows.

The final shot is of the set of Strictly Come Dancing, after an episode of the show is over and the cleaners are sweeping up. A cleaner notices something odd on the ground, some kind of weird pattern. The camera pulls back for a full top-down view and that's when we see it: Brucie has been using his seemingly innocent tap dances to scratch a massive, elaborate Lament Configuration into the floor.

[Bad Ambassador]

You could make a decent Bruce Forsyth origin-story set within the Hellraiser universe.

That's all I needed.

[BeardFaceMan]

So whats the point of these rights movies? They havent done anything but garbage with series for years, its not like they have an amazing script waiting to be made so why waste time and money on something knowingly shit? Doesnt it end up doing more harm than good, by making a film so bad it turns people off the franchise altogether? Why keep hold of the rights in a situation like this, the shitty sequels are not exactly a licence to print money are they?

[Phil_A]

So whats the point of these rights movies? They havent done anything but garbage with series for years, its not like they have an amazing script waiting to be made so why waste time and money on something knowingly shit? Doesnt it end up doing more harm than good, by making a film so bad it turns people off the franchise altogether? Why keep hold of the rights in a situation like this, the shitty sequels are not exactly a licence to print money are they?

It's baffling, right enough. It's not as if the franchise is a guaranteed banker like Spider-Man that they'd be insane to give up. I'm sure even people familiar with the original films would have no idea just how many crappy sequels there have been at this point, much less would be loyally buying every last one.

Is it some kind of tax write-off? Has to really, doesn't it.

[Default to the negative]

I don't know if it's even possible to make a 'proper' one after the series has been tarnished by two decades in the direct-to-video gutter. Who would go to see it? The reaction of most people would be 'Oh no not that shite again.'

Even if we lived in an alternative timeline where all of those bad sequels did not exist, I still think it would be a struggle to bring Hellraiser back to the cinema. It's very much a product of its time, and should probably be left alone.

[Blumf]

Is it some kind of tax write-off? Has to really, doesn't it.

Maybe they can use the rights as collateral for loans? I think you get similar arrangements in the fine art world too, all very shifty.

[St_Eddie]

Why keep hold of the rights in a situation like this, the shitty sequels are not exactly a licence to print money are they?

Greed, greed, greed, greed.  The films might not make a lot of bank but Dimension Films is stubbornly holding onto the rights, like a fat kid with a stack of burgers; swatting away starving ethiopians, the very people who could really make use of them.

[Mini]

Hey as long as it keeps the rights away from Blumhouse or whoever wants to do a Hollywood remake then I'm happy for these straight-to-video sequels to keep a'comin'. Maybe it's weird but I'd rather they make shit sequels no one watches than a shit remake that people do.

[Famous Mortimer]

My favourite recent rights issue thing was that "Wheel Of Time" pilot that was broadcast once, mostly unannounced, at 1:30am on FXX:

https://www.wired.com/2015/02/wheel-of-time-tv-pilot/

I don't know if it's even possible to make a 'proper' one after the series has been tarnished by two decades in the direct-to-video gutter. Who would go to see it? The reaction of most people would be 'Oh no not that shite again.'

Even if we lived in an alternative timeline where all of those bad sequels did not exist, I still think it would be a struggle to bring Hellraiser back to the cinema. It's very much a product of its time, and should probably be left alone.

I get the feeling most casual horror fans aren't aware of anything past part 4. It's easy enough to forget all about them, call this a continuation of the original, chuck some money at Clive Barker to get him back on board, etc.

[Mister Six]

I get the feeling most casual horror fans aren't aware of anything past part 4. It's easy enough to forget all about them, call this a continuation of the original, chuck some money at Clive Barker to get him back on board, etc.

Yeah exactly. And your mainstream audience - the ones you'll make money from - are probably only dimly aware of the first two as fairly well regarded horror movies of yesteryear. They're not going to give a shit if there's a properly marketed quality reboot.

In the meantime shit out of of these for peanuts every few years. Why not?

[Steven]

I thought this was `available' and nearly put it on the other night, but in fact it was a copy of Hellriser 2017.

[St_Eddie]

I thought this was `available' and nearly put it on the other night, but in fact it was a copy of Hellriser 2017.

Going by that trailer, you would have likely been a damn sight more entertained by that film, then the actual new Hellraiser film.  That trailer managed to elicit a couple of unintended laughs from me, whereas the trailer for Hellraiser: Judgment, left me bored, disinterested and mildly annoyed.

[Malcy]

Just downloaded this, will watch in the next couple of days...maybe. No Doug Bradley and endless sequel is putting me off a bit. Haven't even seen 6,7 or 8 yet either.

[St_Eddie]

Haven't even seen 6,7 or 8 yet either.

Take my advice and keep it that way.

[Desirable Industrial Unit]

It's not exactly unknown for an unrelated film to be re-worked into being an installment of a franchise but fuck me, I've never seen such a brazen example.  This is just a ropey Seven rip-off with about 10 minutes of Hellraiser business bolted to it.  Despite this, and I won't spoiler this because it's really not worth it, it does at least have the boldness to seemingly end the franchise.  So:  next stop, reboot.

[St_Eddie]

It's not exactly unknown for an unrelated film to be re-worked into being an installment of a franchise but fuck me, I've never seen such a brazen example.  This is just a ropey Seven rip-off with about 10 minutes of Hellraiser business bolted to it.

Clearly, you haven't been keeping abreast of the Hellraiser series, for some time now.  Brazenly reworking unrelated spec scripts into Hellraiser flicks, with 5-10 minutes of Pinhead and company awkwardly shoehorned in, is the modus operandi and at this point, raison d'être of this franchise.

I won't spoiler this because it's really not worth it, it does at least have the boldness to seemingly end the franchise.  So:  next stop, reboot.

You mean much like the fourth film in the series boldly ended the franchise?  Yet here we are, six sequels later...

[Desirable Industrial Unit]

The only one I skipped was Hellworld, but none of the others have been quite this blatant.  There was at least an attempt to vaguely integrate the Pinhead business with the rest of the plot, however limp.  In this one it seems like it became a Hellraiser flick on the last day of filming.

Was the fourth one the spaaaace one?  It doesn't really matter, of course, there's always an absolute defeat at the end of any franchise horror film that's unpicked or ignored next time.  This one is unusual in that it'll be a lot harder if they want to pretend that there's some sort of continuity, though.

[St_Eddie]

The only one I skipped was Hellworld, but none of the others have been quite this blatant.  There was at least an attempt to vaguely integrate the Pinhead business with the rest of the plot, however limp.  In this one it seems like it became a Hellraiser flick on the last day of filming.

Ah, okay.  I haven't watched this latest one yet.  I can't say that I'm in any great rush to, either.  Therefore, I'll just take your word for it.

Was the fourth one the spaaaace one?  It doesn't really matter, of course, there's always an absolute defeat at the end of any franchise horror film that's unpicked or ignored next time...

Yes, it's the one set in space with a person named Rimmer.

It also features a terminator solving the lament configuration.