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March 29, 2024, 07:49:37 AM

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If Chris Morris farted, would you say it wasn't as good as the last one he did?

Started by Seymour Clufley, January 18, 2005, 09:54:40 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Chris Morris has just farted. You remark:

"That wasn't as good as the last one he did."
6 (16.7%)
"That was even better than the last one he did."
0 (0%)
"That was the best one yet!"
0 (0%)
"What a bad fart. Even more obnoxious than The Green Wing."
1 (2.8%)
"You could hear the influence of his new Warp buddies in that fart."
4 (11.1%)
"I actually think Charlie Brooker had more to do with that fart than Morris."
6 (16.7%)
"How fucking outrageous you are, Chris. Now release a stereo version."
3 (8.3%)
"Oh thank you, God! The history of comedy has led up to this sublime moment!"
2 (5.6%)
"Can anyone else smell an outstayed welcome? How clever am I?"
0 (0%)
"I'm Victor Lewis Smith and I'm saying NOTHING."
14 (38.9%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Voting closed: January 18, 2005, 10:07:12 PM

Or in other words, do you expect that no matter how good it is, Nathan Barley is going to disappoint you?

I recently read the thread about people's predictions about the series and, by jove, was it pessimistic! Seems most people here are convinced Nathan Barley is going to be the product of a highly-evolved Chris Morris, one who we're not really familiar with, something beyond the psychedelia of Jam but below the intellectual radar of the people who got anything out of The Day Today.

Naturally, speculation about Nathan Barley necessitates speculation about Chris Morris. I've read some interesting things here about him. He's satirising the very people he "hangs around with these days anyway". Whatever he makes now will merely demonstrate that he is out of ideas. This very website is going to be "lampooned". He is no longer furious, and therefore will affect to make Nathan Barley appear the product of fury, because his image and success depend on people thinking he is furious and he wouldn't know how to continue without these ideas going on about him. Meantime, he seems to be cultivating a more mainstream, conventional, stupid fanbase, perhaps because he knows his time as a media terrorist, a constantly surprising genius, is over. Is Nathan Barley the crossover piece between Chris Morris (the rude boy) and Chris Morris (the darling)?

Well, obviously we'll be updated on all these questions in a few weeks. Anyway I only started this thread to find out why other people are generally pessimistic about Nathan Barley. It could be fucking great. Do you think you're expecting too much from Morris? Or is there a load of shit that I don't know? Can someone explain to me why I shouldn't look forward to seeing Nathan Barley?

23 Daves

I think most people on here believe (rightly or wrongly) that Nathan Barley will be rubbish purely based upon the law of diminishing returns.  Since Brasseye, each of Morris' pieces of work has been progressively worse than the one before, the real trough arriving with My Wrongs, which nobody on here much liked.

He's also depended a lot upon the repetition of ideas (recycling old Bluejam material) and his workrate has noticeably dipped over the last few years.

Please note these aren't necessarily my opinions, but appear to be the general views of everyone on here.  I don't think there's any sort of "His next piece of work has to be groundbreaking genius" schtick going on - in a poll, a lot of us voted that we'd like to see him going back to doing Radio shows again.  You couldn't get much more back-to-basics than that.  

And for the record, I think he was totally justified in recycling his "Bluejam" material, purely because a lot of it managed to get lost to a greater potential audience in the timeslot it was in on Radio One.  But that's just my opinion, and I know not everyone agrees...

Timmay

I'd say I'm fairly optimistic about it. Partly because I've not delved in to read too pre-hype much about it yet, and partly because I've generally liked pretty much everything he's done. Also I'm not one of these doom-sayers that announces the death of something if it doesn't quite meet up to my exacting expectations.

If it's not that good, well, it's a shame but nevermind - there's always next time. I think this allows me to have a more open mind over new stuff.

Peking O

I've decided that reading about it will be more interesting than watching it. You know all those "ohh don't tell me, spoiler warning"-type threads? I'm going to buck internet protocol and read all those before watching it so my final opinion is impossibly tainted by hatred, bile, happiness and joy. Just as an experiment, like. I'll let you know how I get on.

non capisco

I don't suppose there's anyone on the board willing the prospect of sitting through more comedy they don't find funny to happen. I personally err on the pessimistic side because I was never a huge fan of the Nathan Barley segments on TV Go Home or much else of Charlie Brooker's stuff, and am generally unenthused with the premise of a sitcom about London media trendies. Brooker's repeatedly ploughed that furrow with the Barley character in text before, as have the people behind 'Shoreditch Twat', and my pessismism mainly stems from the fact that I can't imagine Nathan Barley (previously always a cypher for Brooker's media peeves, not an actual character) translating into a sitcom that will engage me and make me laugh. I don't want to sit and watch a sitcom that's a polemic against a certain type of haughty media employed person with an assymetrical haircut and an unearned sense of arrogance. I dig that Brooker has a disdain for that person, I've read about it before. He's been banging that drum with his Nathan Barley stuff for ages. As such, it's difficult to perceive Nathan Barley as a Morris driven project at all, it's the fact he's involved that's generating my interest.

However...if Nathan Barley turns out to be funny I'll be absolutely overjoyed.

Neil

I still don't understand how the same people who moan about people saying 'Nathan Barley will likely be nowhere near as good as previous Morris work' can then go on to say that stuff like 'According To Bex probably won't be as good as a show like Men Behaving Badly'.

It's refreshing to see people just accepting that Morris has done some rubbish... with fandom there's always this temptation to excuse poor work by someone who has previously amazed you.  You can either pretend you do really love it, and tut patronisingly and make accusations of bitterness at the people who see it as being way below par, contesting that it's right up there with the best, or you can start making excuses for it by using cliches like "Well, maybe it's not meant to be funny!"

What's the bloody point though?  Why get so personally attached to the successes and failures of these performers, why do some people take it personally if you attack the object of their fandom, or their work itself?  Morris has had a fair bit of this ("God-like genius" etc), so it can really only be seen as a good thing that a lot of fans are now tapping their feet, looking at their watches, and generally making unhappy noises while waiting for the next GLR Show/On The Hour/Brass Eye to come along.

butnut

I remember when we had a similar debate about a year ago, I made a list of everything Morris had done year by year. I found it very educational. Since (and this is being generous) 2000 (ie after Jam) he's done 1 TV show, a short film, a bit of internet messing about and the odd thing in the paper, and now Nathan Barley. When you look at how much he did in the 90s (especially 94), it's a shame really. But then, maybe it's bloody difficult to keep up that workload.

I've probably missed something and will look a fool now, and will now shut up.

Jaffa The Cake

I think Nathan Barley will be great.

I'm either going to be satisfied, or disappointed.

I think Nathan Barley will be shit.

I'm either going to be pleasantly surprised, or proven right.

skibz

I'm just going to wait to see it, to be honest. As long as there are no 'monging' special effects, or obligatory jizzing scenes, it should be quite amusing... fingers crossed eh?

The Mumbler

If it's on within the next month, the Channel 4/Observer/lads mag publicity machine has a fuck of a lot of catching up to do.  In order that Nathan Barley gets exactly the same viewing figures as everything else Morris has done for about ten years (ie 1.5 million).


The pessimism before a show isn't that bad really as long as people are prepared to eat their words if they turn out to be wrong (and I do think most of us here will be more than happy to do that) isn't something far more delicious when it defies expectation?

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

A lot of people get annoyed at the media's 'It will be a success, whatever happens' attitude - this irritation then gets mistaken for 'willing something to be a failure'.

Can you imagine a newspaper preview of NB saying 'This doesn't look too good, to be honest'? Nor can I, but why? Is it because they're happy, optimistic people? Or is it because the concept of 'a failed Morris project' doesn't make sense in their world?

Morrisfan82

Quote from: "Seymour Clufley"Anyway I only started this thread to find out why other people are generally pessimistic about Nathan Barley. It could be fucking great.
You're right, it could. And whether people are pessimistic or optimistic about it beforehand won't alter the quality of the finished show one iota either way, so why worry about it.

Quote from: "Seymour Clufley"I recently read the thread about people's predictions about the series and, by jove, was it pessimistic!
I think it's worth reading the first post of that thread again. The fact that it's called 'the Nathan "Still-Born" Barley thread' should give you some indication of its tongue-in-cheek factor.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

I get the idea that when people become annoyed at NB-pessismism they're annoyance has little to do with 'But you haven't even seen it yet, give it a chance' (as I say, they'll happily slag off We Will Rock You without seeing it) but more to do with a discomfort about things-that-should-be-good getting a kicking. Time Out feels safe in slagging According to Bex every week because it's an easy target and they know there'll be no comeback, but they'll *never* risk being lukewarm about a Morris project.

Also, you're not allowed to slag something even *after* you've seen it. You wait - after Episode 1, we'll have the 'Well you can't judge a sitcom by its first episode, look at Fawlty Towers' brigade. Then after the whole series has finished, we'll get the 'Most sitcoms take a few series to get going' bollocks.

Don't a lot of people just dislike criticism of non-easy targets (ie, things other than Jim Davidson, Two Pints of Lager, My Hero etc) per se?

Ciarán2

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"Don't a lot of people just dislike criticism of non-easy targets (ie, things other than Jim Davidson, Two Pints of Lager, My Hero etc) per se?

That's an excellent point. 5 years after the fact, I'm still weighing up what I really think of Jam. I genuinely couldn't concieve of it as a failure at the time, "it's a Chris Morris project how can it be bad??", I had loved Blue Jam, and a review of it Jam at the time talked about it as being "like a polar opposite to the Fast Show. The Slow Show, if you like...", and that had me rationalising it's lack of funny moments. I've no desire to watch it now, I think over time it is just going to look more and more dated as visual FX become more hi-tech. Jam has definitely left a sour taste in my mouth.

Beagle 2

QuoteAlso, you're not allowed to slag something even *after* you've seen it. You wait - after Episode 1, we'll have the 'Well you can't judge a sitcom by its first episode, look at Fawlty Towers' brigade.

Well I'm not sure this isn't a valid point really, and this effect will surely be offset by the "SEE I FUCKING TOLD YERS!" brigade. In fact, regardless of the quality you know there's going to be a post on here ten seconds into the first show saying "Oh my god it's awful!"

It'll probably be me.... :(

Ciarán2

Being abroad and that, I'm not going to see any of it. So I do look forward to hearing what ye lot have to say about it when it airs. I missed BES when that showed too, only seeing the repeat. It would have killed me to have missed out on Brass Eye in 97, as i remember the anticipation for that being unbearable. And I'm not sure that my pal back home (who is a comedian, incidentally)* would be happy about having to stay in to tape Nathan Barley for me. I think Jam and BES put this pal of mine off Morris for life. But, of course, he does like The Day Today...

*No, this mate isn't Victor Lewis Smith.

Quote from: "Neil"I still don't understand how the same people who moan about people saying 'Nathan Barley will likely be nowhere near as good as previous Morris work' can then go on to say that stuff like 'According To Bex probably won't be as good as a show like Men Behaving Badly'.

That particular instance was me, and I responded to that accusation in the Men Behaving Badly thread, so won't repeat it again.

I think what grates quite so much with this subject is the level of disgust that has been heaped upon the project as soon as we first heard about it, and this has escalated.  Now, here's a confession, I'm not actually expecting Nathan Barley to be that much cop either, but what I am prepared to do is push those reservations to one side until we've had chance to look at it.  Very little information is known about this, we've seen no clips, read no scripts, yet people on here seem to feel qualified in judging it upon the scraps we've been fed thus far.  That strikes me as me as sneering know-it-allism in the extreme.  Yes, My Wrongs wasn't much cop, yes (some people thought that) Brass Eye Special was a poor imitation of it's original series, but can the naysayers not hold at least a small part of their toffee-nosed preview open to the possibility that it will be good?  I've yet to witness that.

I wonder if Armando Iannucci's Westminster project will receive as much as a frosty reception because Gash was, to all intents and purposes, rubbish.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: "Neil"why do some people take it personally if you attack the object of their fandom, or their work itself?

Because, depending on how you do it, it can come across like you're saying that you know what is funny and these people don't. It does get on my tits that it seems to be an axiom of CC that Charlie Brooker is shit. It's implying by association that my sense of humour is too. I don't weigh into Curb Your Enthusiasm threads saying "Will the next series be shit? Of course it will - it'll be like the others (unless David is losing his touch)" because, even though I believe it to be true, I know it is held in high regard by many VWs and it would be pointless shit-stirring. Each to their own and all that.

Quote from: "Munday's Chylde"The pessimism before a show isn't that bad really as long as people are prepared to eat their words if they turn out to be wrong (and I do think most of us here will be more than happy to do that) isn't something far more delicious when it defies expectation?

Well, if that's the case then fine. Sorry for doubting you naysayers. I will likewise make a shamefaced post if it turns out to be rubbish. You can trust me on this - I have already said elsewhere that I thought the TVGoHome TV series was dire so I'm not such a fanboy, am I?

RHX

(This may be off topic, but I couldn't think of anywhere better to put it)

Just a small wondering: are there any comedians who've been around for 10+ years who are still consistently funny? That's neither an attack on Morris nor a defence of him, just that it seems that comedians who have been around for a while (Morris, Enfield, Coogan, Mayall, Elton etc) seem to be getting worse reviews of their latest work. Is this due to it being dire by today's standards, or because they've done such great work in the past that what they are doing now will never compare to it?

TJ

Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"I wonder if Armando Iannucci's Westminster project will receive as much as a frosty reception because Gash was, to all intents and purposes, rubbish.

Well probably not, as "The Armando Iannucci Shows" was great and he's barely ever done anything truly lacklustre, and also he's pretty much admitted that "Gash" was terrible.

Indeed it was great.  It was also made in 2001, the same year as Brass Eye Special.  That's hardly prolific either, but no one seems to accuse him of treading water.

I didn't realise he'd come out and shat on Gash.  I find that most pleasing - the thought he'd be in some way proud of it rankles.

TJ

Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"Indeed it was great.  It was also made in 2001, the same year as Brass Eye Special.  That's hardly prolific either, but no one seems to accuse him of treading water.

Well, that's because he hasn't been!

The Mumbler

Are all the Morris fans who regularly denounce the Daily Mail (a disgusting paper) aware that it's owned by Associated Newspapers who also own the Evening Standard?  An equally foul paper that Morris just happened to write articles for in the mid-90s...

Quote from: "TJ"
Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"Indeed it was great.  It was also made in 2001, the same year as Brass Eye Special.  That's hardly prolific either, but no one seems to accuse him of treading water.

Well, that's because he hasn't been!

Since 2001 he's done The Smokehammer which people on here hated, Gash, which was rubbish, and series 2 of I'm Alan Partridge which was harldy received universal praise on here either.  His appearances on Question Time and Britain's Best Sitcom/Book/Hat/Smelly Trump hardly qualify as tremendous Earth-shattering output.  Don't get me wrong, I don't wish to denegrate either him, nor his work - he's clearly a wonderful fluffy man.  I just think that some of the vitriol aimed at Morris for peddling less-than-great material could equally be aimed at his erstwhile partner-in-crime.  This is probably another thread altogether, or probably I should just shush.  I think I'll take the latter option, I'm actually annoying myself now.

butnut

He's also done a few terrific short radio shows, to balance things out a bit.


Peking O

Quote from: "Johnny Yesno"I don't weigh into Curb Your Enthusiasm threads saying "Will the next series be shit? Of course it will - it'll be like the others (unless David is losing his touch)" because, even though I believe it to be true, I know it is held in high regard by many VWs and it would be pointless shit-stirring. Each to their own and all that.

There's a fine line between pointless shit-stirring and stating your opinion. I like it when people wade into a thread, shitting bile at something they perceive to be terrible, even if it isn't that coherent at first -- at least you're hearing some passion, some opinion. The ensuing debate should sort out whether the person has a clear point or not. If they don't, it's no big deal and that person will soon be gone. If they do, it opens up a new tangent on the subject. If we all took the 'each to their own' route this forum would be an incredibly dull read.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"Now, here's a confession, I'm not actually expecting Nathan Barley to be that much cop either, but what I am prepared to do is push those reservations to one side until we've had chance to look at it.  

My problem, though, is that I can't 'decide' to be optimistic or pessimistic about something - it's a gut reaction. They're making a TV version of Nathan Barley? Aw fuck off! It stars Richard Ayoade? Aaaagh!

It's like when people 'decide not to be cynical' about something. Surely you're either cynical or you're not, and it's a reaction you can't control?

Incidentally, how many things have turned out to be brilliant despite an initial 'This is obviously going to be terrible' first impresion? I can't think of any. Maybe TMWRNJ.