Sargon of Akkunt finally just starts yelling the n word at people

[Funcrusher]

I think the alt-right will burn out, Charlottesville was a huge tactical mistake in terms of elevating their movement. There's no getting round the fact that a woman was murdered.

Someone like Sargon and his ilk, however, could possibly prove to be more insidious because of their potential to influence and enlarge a younger generation of deeply reactionary young men who consider themselves 'liberal' even though they support Trump, Rees Mogg, Le Pen because they consider themselves too 'rational' to fall for the 'SJW hysteria' of recognising the need for robust reforms to address staggeringly vast economic inequalities in our society. Part of the problem is YouTubers like Sargon don't distinguish between annoying twitter liberals and the broader left movement, they think all leftist policies are 'SJW'.

So I think only time will tell if the 'YouTube Right' or even the thunderingly stupid "both sides are equally bad" 'YouTube Centrists' will have an effect in the ballot box. It's likely that for many 14 year olds, their first exposure to political discourse is people like Sargon.

Or maybe it's you that doesn't get it. You say that opponents of ' SJW hysteria' don't understand the need for addressing vast economic inequalities, and yet class and money invariably are missing from supposedly intersectional politics, which instead focus on identity, SJWs supported Hilary over Bernie Sanders, the real structural reform candidate, and SJW house organ The Guardian bashes Corbyn and supports chicken coup types non stop.

[Sin Agog]

Extremely Online People creep me out.  Even though I probably am one of them. At least I have the decency to be ashamed about it.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Or maybe it's you that doesn't get it. You say that opponents of ' SJW hysteria' don't understand the need for addressing vast economic inequalities, and yet class and money invariably are missing from supposedly intersectional politics, which instead focus on identity, SJWs supported Hilary over Bernie Sanders, the real structural reform candidate, and SJW house organ The Guardian bashes Corbyn and supports chicken coup types non stop.

As I said, I think there's a distinction between annoying, extremely online SJW liberals and the broader leftist movement that cares about economic inequality and likes Corbyn and Sanders. People like Sargon oppose both equally, not understanding that the real antidote to SJW hysteria is further left. Next time read my post in full before commenting. ta x

[Funcrusher]

I just think there's a distinction between annoying, extremely online SJW liberals and the broader leftist movement that cares about economic inequality and likes Corbyn and Sanders. People like Sargon oppose both equally, not understanding that the antidote to SJW hysteria is further left. Next time read my post before commenting. ta x

Yeah, I read what you wrote, I just think your take is somewhat lacking. You don't think that the Corbyn is an anti-Semite, Bernie supporters are 'bro's' stuff is a a real world manifestation of SJWism which threatens the broader left? Who are 'people like Sargon'? The fact that he's now bickering with the Alt right suggests his not really one of them. Where does he fit?

[Sin Agog]

The left is inherently interested in other people's affairs.  Helping them and nitpicking them.  The right is inherently interested in themselves and their family.  That's why the latter tend to be better at sticking together en masse, rather than frittering away the momentum they do gain by erupting into a thousand splinter groups.

(Not sure if this post has anything to do with this thread, as I had no idea what the fuck was going on in that video in the OP).

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Yeah, I read what you wrote, I just think your take is somewhat lacking. You don't think that the Corbyn is an anti-Semite, Bernie supporters are 'bro's' stuff is a a real world manifestation of SJWism which threatens the broader left?

Not exclusively, in the press they're more like frightened neoliberals, but on twitter they're credulous identity politics liberals. You've got to zone into the specifics in order to address a problem. Abstracting everything by calling everyone of a similar stripe an 'SJW' will never solve anything.   

Who are 'people like Sargon'?

Conservatives, reactionaries. The self-proclaimed 'Classical Liberals'. As I've already said.

The fact that he's now bickering with the Alt right suggests his not really one of them. Where does he fit?

I've already laid out how he's distinct from the alt-right on a previous page (please read my posts in full before commenting on them, ta x).

[Twed]

You don't think that the Corbyn is an anti-Semite, Bernie supporters are 'bro's' stuff is a a real world manifestation of SJWism which threatens the broader left?

That's a very specific subset of SJW behaviour that isn't based in belief, but based in making sure that your own group remains and becomes more powerful. It is of the right. There are actual social justice warriors who care about social justice, and they are on the left.

[Funcrusher]

Not exclusively, in the press they're more like frightened neoliberals, but on twitter they're credulous identity politics liberals. You've got to zone into the specifics in order to address a problem. Abstracting everything by calling everyone of a similar stripe an 'SJW' will never solve anything.   

Conservatives, reactionaries. The self-proclaimed 'Classical Liberals'. As I've already said.

I've already laid out how he's distinct from the alt-right on a previous page (please read my posts in full before commenting on them, ta x).

Yeah, I read that paragraph but it's not very coherent. Do people who support Le Pen really consider themselves liberal? Is Sargon a conservative, who opposes redistributive Corbyn socialism on principal, or is he merely confused in not seeing that there is a broader left, which he would support, that's distinct from SJWism?

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Yeah, I read that paragraph but it's not very coherent. Do people who support Le Pen really consider themselves liberal?

Yes, 'Classical Liberal'. It's a curious phenomenon sure, but it exists. It has a real definition that is distinct from how it is usually employed, so the main manifestation of it in practice seems to be 'vote for anyone who will trigger the SJWs'.

Is Sargon a conservative, who opposes redistributive Corbyn socialism on principal, or is he merely confused in not seeing that there is a broader left, which he would support, that's distinct from SJWism?

He definitely vehemently opposes socialism on somewhat principled grounds (he's somewhat of a pro-market neoliberal, although as you may have gathered he's not a particularly deep policy thinker). I think many of his followers fall into the latter category that you've outlined and that's why I think that there's hope in winning them back if the left really gets its shit together.

[Funcrusher]

Yes, 'Classical Liberal'. It's a curious phenomenon sure, but it exists. It has a real definition that is distinct from how it is usually employed, so the main manifestation of it in practice seems to be 'vote for anyone who will trigger the SJWs'.

He definitely vehemently opposes socialism on somewhat principled grounds (he's somewhat of a pro-market neoliberal, although as you may have gathered he's not a particularly deep policy thinker). I think many of his followers fall into the latter category that you've outlined and that's why I think that there's hope in winning them back if the left really gets its shit together.

I'm glad that you think that winning people back is necessary and possible - what I find dispiriting is those who just want to burnish their own purported progressive credentials by labelling someone wherever possible a nazi or some variety of 'phobe who are beyond salvation. The fact is that elements of what is perceived as the left are turning people off with their puritanical antics and this is a problem.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I'm glad that you think that winning people back is necessary and possible - what I find dispiriting is those who just want to burnish their own purported progressive credentials by labelling someone wherever possible a nazi or some variety of 'phobe who are beyond salvation. The fact is that elements of what is perceived as the left are turning people off with their puritanical antics and this is a problem.

Yep, agreed. We've got to make sure that the Lena Dunhams of the world don't become the face of leftism for the average person.

[Bhazor]

He believes any right wing conspiracy he's told. Which tells you about his much vaunted Supreme Enlightened Skeptic label.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKd-xZGknZ8

He's a feckless cunt and I hope he gets his cock caught on a threshing machine.

[Sin Agog]

I'm glad that you think that winning people back is necessary and possible - what I find dispiriting is those who just want to burnish their own purported progressive credentials by labelling someone wherever possible a nazi or some variety of 'phobe who are beyond salvation. The fact is that elements of what is perceived as the left are turning people off with their puritanical antics and this is a problem.

Show some bloody respect and capitalize the word Nazi, please!

It's worth affording the SJW's some degree of empathy, too.  Obviously a lot of identity politics is ego-based, and the ones people get most frustrated about are the things that happen to appertain to them, but these peoples usually come from a good place.  They see a problem and think shouting at the top of their lungs is the best way to get rid of it, and let's face it- it seems to have done the trick in some regards.  They've alienated a lot of people, but they've also changed society in a really short amount of time, which is kind of amazing.  It reminds me of the Malcolm X ethos as opposed to that of Martin Luther King.  The latter said that white and black people were equal in a bid to slowly make that happen in society, but Malcolm X, to speed up the process, said that black people were better.  It's dizzying to watch things change so quickly around us, and can be alienating for those attached to how things were, or who aren't reaping the rewards of the change, but the SJW's, much as they can piss me the fuck off with their dunderheaded dogmatism, are doing what classical liberals never could.  They're making people terrified to follow their baser instincts.

[Funcrusher]

Yep, agreed. We've got to make sure that the Lena Dunhams of the world don't become the face of leftism for the average person.

Cool, we're in agreement. I would say that my worst fears for SJW effect on the left haven't thus far come to pass, as most SJWs aren't actually that left wing. Corbyn and his crew don't seem to have much truck with this stuff, and just deal in proper old school anti-racism, anti-fascism etc. The SJW element in Labour is Corbyn haters like Jess Philips.

[Funcrusher]

Show some bloody respect and capitalize the word Nazi, please!

It's worth affording the SJW's some degree of empathy, too.  Obviously a lot of identity politics is ego-based, and the ones people get most frustrated about are the things that happen to appertain to them, but these peoples usually come from a good place.  They see a problem and think shouting at the top of their lungs is the best way to get rid of it, and let's face it- it seems to have done the trick in some regards.  They've alienated a lot of people, but they've also changed society in a really short amount of time, which is kind of amazing.  It reminds me of the Malcolm X ethos as opposed to that of Martin Luther King.  The latter said that white and black people were equal in a bid to slowly make that happen in society, but Malcolm X, to speed up the process, said that black people were better.  It's dizzying to watch things change so quickly around us, and can be alienating for those attached to how things were, or who aren't reaping the rewards of the change, but the SJW's, much as they can piss me the fuck off with their dunderheaded dogmatism, are doing what classical liberals never could.  They're making people terrified to follow their baser instincts.

I honestly think that Some SJWs don't come from a particularly good place, and are dangerous narcissists, or just very young and foolish, which is the same thing.

I would grudgingly concede that SJWism can create some positive things, but it's divisiveness on the flip side is really dangerous. To give an example, there was a big SJW incursion into Sight and Sound magazine and more widely in the BFI a while back, and the programming at London BFI Southbank is noticeably trying to show how diverse and non straight white male it is. There was a black cinema season a while back that felt rather cobbled together, with films that had already been on in the Blaxploitation season or elsewhere. However, I would have to say that there were obviously more black faces in there during that season, and probably people who wouldn't typically go there, which can only be a good thing.

[itsfredtitmus]

oh no not bfi

[Sin Agog]

Black Film Institute

[Monsieur Verdoux]

i liked the black star season

[Zetetic]

I felt it was really dangerous.

[Funcrusher]

i liked the black star season

Yes, that was it.

[Sin Agog]

By the way, I liked that post funcrusher and I probably don't brush shoulders with enough SJWs in person to really be able to tell if it is coming from a good place.  Usually anyone that zealously obsessed with one thing is trying to run away from something amiss in their own lives.  The trait I dislike the most from their corner is the complete lack of empathy for anyone not doctrinaire enough or who might have done something wrong in their lives.  We're not gonna learn diddly-squat about 'out if we make everyone a little flawed dead to the world forever.

[Funcrusher]

I felt it was really dangerous.

Sigh, I guess I should have made a longer post explaining what I'm saying. What I think is dangerous is that there's now a really divisive atmosphere around cultural diversity because there's a perception that it's something that's being enforced by SJWs.

[Howj Begg]

BFI currently doing a Bergman season, but yes, dangerously, there's a season dedicated to women directors. This way madness lies.

there's now a really divisive atmosphere around cultural diversity because there's a perception that it's something that's being enforced by SJWs.

I wonder who could be responsible for creating this perception

[Zetetic]

What I think is dangerous is that there's now a really divisive atmosphere around cultural diversity because there's a perception that it's something that's being enforced by SJWs.

I don't even disagree that there's a sometimes an issue about making a virtue of simply being unpleasant to people who fail to meet one's standards (however reasonable those standards may be), but

I would grudgingly concede that SJWism can create some positive things, but it's divisiveness on the flip side is really dangerous. To give an example, there was a big SJW incursion into Sight and Sound magazine

actually brought me to tears.

[Zetetic]

Reading it again, it's still working for me.

[Funcrusher]

BFI currently doing a Bergman season, but yes, dangerously, there's a season dedicated to women directors. This way madness lies.

I wonder who could be responsible for creating this perception

Yes, I think that all cultural diversity is dangerous, because I'm not progressive like what you are. If the 'Girlfriends' season is the one you're referring to, I don't think Howard Hawks, Robert Altman or George Cukor were women.

[Funcrusher]

actually brought me to tears.

Okay. Do you know anything about the thing I'm referring to?

[Sin Agog]

Sight & Sound magazine was name-dropped in the Book of Revelation, after all.

[Howj Begg]

Yes, I think that all cultural diversity is dangerous, because I'm not progressive like what you are. If the 'Girlfriends' season is the one you're referring to, I don't think Howard Hawks, Robert Altman or George Cukor were women.

You really just have to read your post back to yourself to see where you're going wrong in your thinking. You're allowing your bogey of SJWs to worry yourself into finding problems with diversity in art curation. That is actually what you're doing.

[Funcrusher]

i liked the black star season

You don't think that, compared to say the big Chinese cinema season that they did the year before, that it was a bit of a mish mash?