Author Topic: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.  (Read 29461 times)

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2018, 12:07:03 PM »
A clever joke. I do remember thinking at the time, I wonder how unhappy blokes who can't have children feel watching it. Seemed a bit cruel. I suppose a lot of comedy wouldn't get made if writers had to be sensitive to every potential person affected though.

Even the titles songs are a bit offensive really.  They are a bunch of crooks celebrating the fact they are selling stolen broken tat without warrenties to other suckers in the same boat and don't pay their taxes either.

Stick a pony in me pocket
I'll fetch the suitcase from the van
Cause if you want the best 'uns
And you don't ask questions
Then brother I'm your man

Where it all comes from
Is a mystery
It's like the changing of the seasons
And the tides of the sea
But here's the one that's driving me berserk
Why do only fools and horses work
La la lala - la la la la la (etc)
Written and Performed by John Sullivan

Closing Lyrics

We've got some half priced cracked ice
And miles and miles of carpet tiles
TV's, deep freeze and David Bowie LP's
Pool games, gold chains, wosnames
And at a push
Some Trevor Francis track-suits
From a mush in Shepherds Bush, Bush, Bush,
Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush

No income tax, no VAT
No money back, no guarantee
Black or white, rich or broke
We'll cut prices at a stroke

God bless Hooky Street
Viva Hooky Street
Long live Hooky Street
C'est magnifique Hooky Street
Magnifique Hooky Street

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2018, 12:20:05 PM »
I think Only Fools And Horses is fundamentally against intellectualism. Rodney is the straw man so any attempt to say something clever or knowledgable can be shot down by his character flaws and he's a plonker. The message -  a bit similar to Citizen Smith - is a reassuring 'don't get ideas above your station with thoughts of politics or think you're clever, cos those people are twats or plonkers.' Be like Del-Boy? Better being him than Rodney or anyone else in the cast, none of whom are intellectuals, as far as I recall.

Yeah, but remember how often Del's stupidity is played for laughs, I don't think he's necessarily supposed to be a role model. Or at least he wasn't initially.

I don't think the series is aiming to be anti-intellectual either, it's just the classic sitcom trope of a character being trapped by their circumstances, always having pretensions towards higher things but being constantly dragged back to earth by their family obligations. Would you say Steptoe and Son was anti-intellectual?

SpiderChrist

  • "the law of averages says you'll survive"
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2018, 12:28:37 PM »
Laurel & Hardy.

Stan obviously has mental health problems and Ollie's constant bullying leaves a nasty taste in the mouth these days. The wives are always depicted as harridans too. Not on.


Pfffft.

Autopsy Turvey

  • Albert The Grinder vs The Hooded Terror
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2018, 12:45:09 PM »
I'm sure this doesn't belong here, but it's related to the concept of people taking offence because they're not ready or prepared to laugh about something painful in their personal circumstances. A friend of mine mentioned to a colleague that there was a Serial Killer Top Trumps-style card game, and the colleague was massively offended and went on a rant about how sick it was. But far more people are likely to have lost friends and family in a fatal car crash than to a serial killer, so isn't the Fast Car Top Trumps game actually far more likely to cause genuine upset?

Re:OFAH, I was going to say all good comedy is anti-intellectual. It sounds like a casual, dismissive soundbite but I'm not sure it's wholly inaccurate. I'd ask though, which half-way funny comedy character provides an actual morally upright role model?

Pfffft.

This noise sums up the whole concept behind this thread.

thenoise

  • Golden Member
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Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2018, 01:43:20 PM »
I loved The Party when I was younger, although it's usually agreed that it's one of the 'least bad' instances of browning-up, since Peter Sellers at least put a bit of effort into acting like an actual Indian person rather than a stereotype.

It was, at least, a far more respectful portrayal than me going about saying 'birdie numnums' in a cod-Indian accent, to the irritation of my family.

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2018, 01:53:59 PM »
I'm sure this doesn't belong here, but it's related to the concept of people taking offence because they're not ready or prepared to laugh about something painful in their personal circumstances. A friend of mine mentioned to a colleague that there was a Serial Killer Top Trumps-style card game, and the colleague was massively offended and went on a rant about how sick it was. But far more people are likely to have lost friends and family in a fatal car crash than to a serial killer, so isn't the Fast Car Top Trumps game actually far more likely to cause genuine upset?

Reminds me a bit of a story Dara O'Briain once told, he was writing a newspaper article and described something as "spreading like SARS" - his editor said it was offensive and asked him to change it to "spread like wildfire", even though at that very moment there was a wildfire killing people in Australia. So basically if something is ingrained enough in the public consciousness that it becomes a cliché, it loses its offensiveness. Fast Car Top Trumps have been around for so long that the dodginess of celebrating offensively powerful cars is completely lost.

Brundle-Fly

  • "Why don't you do something to help me?"
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2018, 01:56:07 PM »

Pfffft.

I hope you realise I was joking here?

SpiderChrist

  • "the law of averages says you'll survive"
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2018, 02:14:49 PM »
I hope you realise I was joking here?

I do now.

*takes extended break from CaB due to extreme embarrassment*

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2018, 02:15:14 PM »
the bit frankie boyle does about disabled kids

You liked that at some stage?

thenoise

  • Golden Member
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Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2018, 02:21:37 PM »

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2018, 02:26:49 PM »
True, but it seems later on from Get the Horn that Cook's just bullying Moore. Derek & Clive (Live) I love unconditionally though.

Homer's Phobia? I read a review which said the ending is saying "gays who have proved themselves by saving you from being beaten up by reindeer are alright." Think it was the AV Club. I found the episode really funny the first time I saw it, but it's been soured by me feeling I have to defend it.

It's called Homer's Phobia. It's about Homer being homophobic. They even say at the end that if only every gay in the world saved your life you'd be okay with them being gay. It holds up quite well as anti homophobia, can't see owt wrong to be honest.

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2018, 02:33:21 PM »
I thought the plot was that they want to get alcohol because they promised to get it to appear cool so that girls would think they were cool enough to have sex with them (and the film portrays them as idiots in any event)

A better candidate here would be Revenge of the Nerds, which portrays the protagonist raping someone as a clever victory.

And Animal House where a bloke ponders having it away with a catatonic girl in a shopping trolley. I think he doesn't in the end but the devil on his shoulder was telling him to. I remember Superbad being about getting a certain type of spirits (Goldshlager?) to impress the girls.

Not sure about all this rape business.

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2018, 02:34:24 PM »
They literally say "we could be that mistake"

That's a bit of a leap to rape.

Dr Rock

  • The BEST of luck!
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2018, 02:40:21 PM »
They thought if they got alcohol they'd be the stars if the party, plus they could get the girls they fancied drunk enough to consent to sex. When they almost got it, they stopped, because the girls were too drunk, and they chose not to fuck them in that state, they realised it would be wrong when confronted with the unpleasant reality.


Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2018, 02:53:34 PM »
I don't think you could put either of those scenes in a film nowdays.

Well films are going to be a lot shitter if you can't portray questionable ethics and morally dubious people.

Pdine

  • Apparently I'm Jewish
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2018, 02:55:11 PM »
The Falklands War

Noodle Lizard

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Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2018, 03:02:56 PM »
I haven't been a teenager for nearly a decade, but I'm pretty sure getting drunk and shagging is still what they're up to.  I found Superbad offensive for other reasons, but I can't see it as a particularly problematic film.

Someone else mentioned The Inbetweeners, which I suppose deals with similar stuff, has a character designed to do little else other than objectify girls (as well as the most universally underwritten female characters I can think of, but that's another issue).  Those people exist, and are ripe for depiction in films (comedic or otherwise).  Again, I find The Inbetweeners offensive for other reasons.

Dr Rock

  • The BEST of luck!
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2018, 03:09:33 PM »
Why can't we have more comedies about well-behaved teenagers who do all their homework and keep out of any silly trouble!

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2018, 03:28:00 PM »
I haven't been a teenager for nearly a decade, but I'm pretty sure getting drunk and shagging is still what they're up to.  I found Superbad offensive for other reasons, but I can't see it as a particularly problematic film.

Someone else mentioned The Inbetweeners, which I suppose deals with similar stuff, has a character designed to do little else other than objectify girls (as well as the most universally underwritten female characters I can think of, but that's another issue).  Those people exist, and are ripe for depiction in films (comedic or otherwise).  Again, I find The Inbetweeners offensive for other reasons.

In fairness, The Inbetweeners did a decent job of exposing the fact that beneath all the bravado Jay was actually the softest of the lot, falling in love with two girls over the course of the show and getting parked by both of them for being over-keen.

I do think The Inbetweeners is slightly problematic, but in a weird way - you're supposed to think the four of them are idiots, and so the joke is in theory on them when they make crass, offensive comments...but most of those comments are well-written and performed, and clearly intended to be funny in themselves. So the writers are trying to have their cake and eat it.

ieXush2i

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Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2018, 04:09:27 PM »
The Inbetweeners is - brace yourselves - about the pitfalls of toxic masculinity

The series also does a good job of establishing Jay's attitude to women comes from his cunty Lad Dad.

bgmnts

  • Depressed to the point of poisonous toxicity.
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2018, 04:10:57 PM »
I just think it's a comedy about some funny and embarrassing shit happening to  group of alienated teens.

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2018, 04:14:48 PM »
Flynn O' Thick.
Cheers mate.

Flynn O'Thick! I laughed. Didn't seem too problematic until the BOMBS HAHA
Was almost sure Emery had hired Hal Roach for the narration at the start but seems not.

ieXush2i

  • Guest
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM »
But the funny and embarrassing stuff is mostly about masculine expectations and their failures while navigating all that.

Jay's kind of the embodiment of that, constantly exaggerating and lying about his sexual prowess (and masculine courage, like the time he claims he can ride a motorbike) because he thinks that's what's expected of him. And he does this to his friends who absolutely do not accept a word he says, ever.

Blazing Saddles: just the comical Wild West hijinx of a sheriff who also happens to be black

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2018, 04:20:22 PM »
That bit with the motorbike is one of the funniest bits of physical comedy I've ever seen. The initial bump on the step, followed by the slightly underwhelming smack of his head on the door. Fantastic.

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2018, 04:46:52 PM »
It's called Homer's Phobia. It's about Homer being homophobic. They even say at the end that if only every gay in the world saved your life you'd be okay with them being gay. It holds up quite well as anti homophobia, can't see owt wrong to be honest.

We've gone over this already.

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2018, 05:46:15 PM »
I still like Spaced (in fact, last time I watched it, I found it even funnier than before) but Tim referring to Brian's "non gender specific" friend as "a big fat tranny" doesn't sound good these days - not that it ever should have done.

Similarly, I struggle see the point of the Blue Jam sketches about people swapping genitals, other than to take the piss out of transsexuals. I think I might have even started a thread about it some years ago.

Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #86 on: February 15, 2018, 05:57:49 PM »
I still like Spaced (in fact, last time I watched it, I found it even funnier than before) but Tim referring to Brian's "non gender specific" friend as "a big fat tranny" doesn't sound good these days - not that it ever should have done.

I think you are probably right but I think that was more about puncturing the pomposity of what Brian's friend was saying by being as crass as possible

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
    • mixes'n'mashes
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2018, 06:55:09 PM »
Isn't it because tranny was used as shorthand for transvestite, not transexual? Thats how I understood the word growing up (80s), isn't the changing of the meaning to transexual a relatively recent thing or have I always got it wrong?

ETA - a bit like in Partridge where he refers to John Merrick wearing a blouse as an elephant tranny, thats how I always understood the word.

ieXush2i

  • Guest
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2018, 07:05:14 PM »

Similarly, I struggle see the point of the Blue Jam sketches about people swapping genitals, other than to take the piss out of transsexuals. I think I might have even started a thread about it some years ago.

It's been ages since I heard all of them, but isn't one of the recurring elements the fact that the operations are being forced onto the subject by another character? The parents in the Little Girl Balls sketch: "We're particularly proud of the balls." Wasn't another about an owner putting arms on a budgie?

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.
« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2018, 08:15:14 PM »
I still like Spaced (in fact, last time I watched it, I found it even funnier than before) but Tim referring to Brian's "non gender specific" friend as "a big fat tranny" doesn't sound good these days - not that it ever should have done.

"Get off me, you bummer!"

It's called Homer's Phobia. It's about Homer being homophobic. They even say at the end that if only every gay in the world saved your life you'd be okay with them being gay. It holds up quite well as anti homophobia, can't see owt wrong to be honest.

GLAAD certainly thought so. It won the award that year for Outstanding TV Episode.

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