Comedy you liked but now think is problematical.

[rectorofstiffkey]

I saw Graeme Garden and Tim Brooke-Taylor when they toured about 10 years ago talking about the Goodies.  They showed one sketch - it was relevant, as the one that the man famously laughed himself to death watching - in which Garden blacked up, and apologised in advance.  I noticed that GG looked really embarrassed when his blacked-up self appeared on the screen.

With the Office, I find Tim talking about the 'div kid' unpalatable now - and he was the nice character...

[alan nagsworth]

Tim is the lesser of most evils in that show, but that doesn't mean he isn't occasionally a prick.

[Gulftastic]

Also from Spaced - 'Get off me, you Joey'.

It's period correct for a man of Tim's age to have used that as a child, we pretty much all did, but he really should have grown out of it by his late 20's.

[up_the_hampipe]

Also from Spaced - 'Get off me, you Joey'.

It's period correct for a man of Tim's age to have used that as a child, we pretty much all did, but he really should have grown out of it by his late 20's.

Isn't that the point? Tim and Mike are acting like pair of children.

[Gulftastic]

Isn't that the point? Tim and Mike are acting like pair of children.

True enough. It's probably my middle aged guilt coming through.

[phantom_power]

Yes they are infantile. Part of the point of the show is them growing up a bit

[Dusty Substance]

Woody Allen chasing after women much younger than him was always a little problematic, but the ongoing allegations make it even more so.

Manhattan is a stunning film, one of his absolute bests from the peak of his film making career, but he was 44 (playing a 42 year old) and Mariel Hemmingway, playing a 17 year old object of his desire, was only just 18.

[checkoutgirl]

I haven't been a teenager for nearly a decade, but I'm pretty sure getting drunk and shagging is still what they're up to. 

It's the year 2018, teens getting drunk and trying to have sex with each other is now classified as rape. Get with the programme grandad.

[bgmnts]

I didnt get to do any of that as a teenager so I guess nobody else did.

[checkoutgirl]

Why can't we have more comedies about well-behaved teenagers who do all their homework and keep out of any silly trouble!

Exactly. Why can't Hollywood realise the huge comedy potential in teenagers acting sexually appropriate towards each other 100% of the time? Someone should write them a letter.

[checkoutgirl]

Also from Spaced - 'Get off me, you Joey'.

It's period correct for a man of Tim's age to have used that as a child, we pretty much all did, but he really should have grown out of it by his late 20's.

The character of Tim is deliberately purile at times. When he says get off me you bummer it's to illustrate his childishness. I think the landlady nods to him and says to Daisy something along the lines of "Why go out for burger when you can have steak at home" then Tim says something childish to puncture that bubble. It's a basic comedy trope.

I'm not sure if people are really getting this, or maybe I'm the one confused here. If someone acts politically incorrect and the show is commenting on that then that should be fair game. Otherwise I can't see what the point of comedy even is.

I think the problem is when comedy uses material that can be viewed as politically incorrect people are very easily grabbing the wrong end of the stick and missing out on the social commentary. And they say Americans don't understand irony. This is a mainly British website.

[BeardFaceMan]

Indeed, claiming something like Blazing Saddles is now problamatic is pretty silly when it's a period film. The attitudes from that period havent changed even though ours might have.

[up_the_hampipe]

I think the problem is when comedy uses material that can be viewed as politically incorrect people are very easily grabbing the wrong end of the stick and missing out on the social commentary. And they say Americans don't understand irony. This is a mainly British website.

A British website for fans of Chris Morris!!!

[Dr Rock]

I'd ask though, which half-way funny comedy character provides an actual morally upright role model?

Shelley out of Shelley?

[rectorofstiffkey]

The character of Tim is deliberately purile at times. When he says get off me you bummer it's to illustrate his childishness. I think the landlady nods to him and says to Daisy something along the lines of "Why go out for burger when you can have steak at home" then Tim says something childish to puncture that bubble. It's a basic comedy trope.

I'm not sure if people are really getting this, or maybe I'm the one confused here. If someone acts politically incorrect and the show is commenting on that then that should be fair game. Otherwise I can't see what the point of comedy even is.

I think the problem is when comedy uses material that can be viewed as politically incorrect people are very easily grabbing the wrong end of the stick and missing out on the social commentary. And they say Americans don't understand irony. This is a mainly British website.

You make a really good point - but even so there are some things that I used to think were fine that I now don't like.  The example I mentioned earlier of Tim from the Office talking about the 'div kid' (notwithstanding that it's a funny line with respect to the point he's making, and made funnier by Gareth's reply) probably wasn't meant to be social commentary about Tim behaving politically incorrectly.  It was just a character saying something that was probably borderline OK at the time - I don't remember it jarring when I watched it originally - but now has most definitely crossed the border for most people.  I'd also say that it doesn't make me feel badly towards the writers and performers - none of us ever claim to predict the future, do we (except for those 'time travellers' in the Sun today), and I probably would have cheerfully said 'div kid', and worse variants, myself back in the 90s.  (Some of my colleagues still do.  I'm a teacher.)

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

In Jerry Lewis' The Nutty Professor, the titular academic falls in love/lust with one of his female students. She's a college student, so presumably aged around 20/21. Lewis was in his mid-thirties when he made the film, so there's nothing particularly problematic about the age gap. College lecturers shouldn't get romantically involved with their students, that's creepy, but it's just about acceptable within the context of this surreal, cartoonish film.

However, the plot involves him inventing a serum which transforms him from a sweet, clumsy nebbish into a swaggering, nasty, alpha-male cunt. We're not asked to sympathise with his boorish alter-ego - far from it, he's the vile Hyde to the protagonist's gentle Jekyll - but at the end of the film, after he's realised that being a nice person is better than being a LEGEND GARY, the object of his desire walks off with him while packing two bottles of his nasty bastard serum.

She winks to the camera as if to say, "Yeah, I've fallen in love with this adorable nerd, but what's the harm in bringing out his misogynist id from time to time?"

WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE IS THAT?

[kalowski]

In Jerry Lewis' The Nutty Professor, the titular academic falls in love/lust with one of his female students. She's a college student, so presumably aged around 20/21. Lewis was in his mid-thirties when he made the film, so there's nothing particularly problematic about the age gap. College lecturers shouldn't get romantically involved with their students, that's creepy, but it's just about acceptable within the context of this surreal, cartoonish film.

However, the plot involves him inventing a serum which transforms him from a sweet, clumsy nebbish into a swaggering, nasty, alpha-male cunt. We're not asked to sympathise with his boorish alter-ego - far from it, he's the vile Hyde to the protagonist's gentle Jekyll - but at the end of the film, after he's realised that being a nice person is better than being a LEGEND GARY, the object of his desire walks off with him while packing two bottles of his nasty bastard serum.

She winks to the camera as if to say, "Yeah, I've fallen in love with this adorable nerd, but what's the harm in bringing out his misogynist id from time to time?"

WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE IS THAT?

She likes to be fucked up the ass from time to time, and Buddy Love likes to do it. Get it. "Buddy" Love?

[Dr Rock]

In Jerry Lewis' The Nutty Professor, the titular academic falls in love/lust with one of his female students. She's a college student, so presumably aged around 20/21. Lewis was in his mid-thirties when he made the film, so there's nothing particularly problematic about the age gap. College lecturers shouldn't get romantically involved with their students, that's creepy, but it's just about acceptable within the context of this surreal, cartoonish film.

However, the plot involves him inventing a serum which transforms him from a sweet, clumsy nebbish into a swaggering, nasty, alpha-male cunt. We're not asked to sympathise with his boorish alter-ego - far from it, he's the vile Hyde to the protagonist's gentle Jekyll - but at the end of the film, after he's realised that being a nice person is better than being a LEGEND GARY, the object of his desire walks off with him while packing two bottles of his nasty bastard serum.

She winks to the camera as if to say, "Yeah, I've fallen in love with this adorable nerd, but what's the harm in bringing out his misogynist id from time to time?"

WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE IS THAT?

It's a progressive, pro-sex for women, non slut-shaming message - she wants to be fucked into the middle of next week by a bastard every now and then. What's wrong with that?

[kalowski]

It's a progressive, pro-sex for women, non slut-shaming message - she wants to be fucked into the middle of next week by a bastard every now and then. What's wrong with that?

What you got me on a fucking pay-no-mind list?

[Oops! Wrong Planet]

You make a really good point - but even so there are some things that I used to think were fine that I now don't like.  The example I mentioned earlier of Tim from the Office talking about the 'div kid' (notwithstanding that it's a funny line with respect to the point he's making, and made funnier by Gareth's reply) probably wasn't meant to be social commentary about Tim behaving politically incorrectly.  It was just a character saying something that was probably borderline OK at the time - I don't remember it jarring when I watched it originally - but now has most definitely crossed the border for most people.  I'd also say that it doesn't make me feel badly towards the writers and performers - none of us ever claim to predict the future, do we (except for those 'time travellers' in the Sun today), and I probably would have cheerfully said 'div kid', and worse variants, myself back in the 90s.  (Some of my colleagues still do.  I'm a teacher.)

It's just a word, yeah? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9EUe8jNr6o#t=3m38s

[Sebastian Cobb]

Is it the pairing with kid you find so bad? I find div about as innocuous as 'wally'.

I think it's quite apt really as it's quite obvious Gareth was the div/odd kid in school all grown up (as he sort of confirms with the 'I'd leave them until the end so their milk would go warm' line), I don't think it's meant to be ableist or refer to proper special needs ('joeys' or whatever).

To be honest I always liked that bit because there definitely are self-important people who never grow out of being tricked into doing work that nobody else can be arsed to do because it has been dressed up in false-responsibility.

[Dr Rock]

What you got me on a fucking pay-no-mind list?

I started writing my post before yours was posted, sorry. At least we agree on the main point, she wants a good hammering every now and then, and she's got the control over when that happens. It's almost post-post-feminist.

[Dr Rock]

What is the derivation of 'div' though? I think of it as harmless because I thought it was a made up word.

[Sebastian Cobb]

What is the derivation of 'div' though? I think of it as harmless because I thought it was a made up word.

According to urban dictionary it might be a lot more apt than both of us realised.



Although further down other explanations suggest it stems from 'individual needs child'.

[Dr Rock]

Right, that is NOT problematical, I'm calling everyone divs from now on. You bunch of divs.

[Oops! Wrong Planet]

Yeah, Collins has it as prison slang. They, Chambers and Oxford define divvy/div as a person who's foolish or stupid. It's not flagged "offensive" as 'mong' is, for example.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I heard someone say 'cretin' was offensive/taboo a while back. I know it has a medical origin, but thought it was fairly eroded much like 'idiot'.

[Dr Rock]

Although further down other explanations suggest it stems from 'individual needs child'.

NOT LISTENING

[Dr Rock]

Can't find any evidence that the phrase 'individual needs child' has ever been used. And I looked for nearly a minute.

[a duncandisorderly]

Right, that is NOT problematical, I'm calling everyone divs from now on. You bunch of divs.

I try never to denigrate a person using references to a characteristic that's inherent, that's not in their power to change.

'divvy' was common in liverpool to describe a person being temporarily stupid; even in the rough-&-tumble of scouse banter, things like "cretin" would be avoided by most people I met, because the roots of its pejorative effect are in a medical condition, not a momentary lapse of reason or observational skills. scousers I knew seemed to pride themselves on generating new terms anyway- if someone divulged a secret, for example, they were a "blurt". & so on.