Hardware/software advice - getting back into music recording

[spamwangler]

Yeah getting my head around what these mean and the associated cabling is confusing me. Also as per usual online reviews are full of techies trying to outdo each other and criticising gear that for my purposes may be perfectly adequate.

Essentially I want to be able to record clear minimal hissy guitar and vocals at the same time, while they record to seperate tracks, while picking up a decent pair of over ear headphones so I don't annoy the neighbours.

The guitar interface is for fun and to mess around with different synths.

Reaper is often recommended and I found it ok to use on a demo one time. The daw isn't a major issue as I have  trusty old favourite, but I might revisit Reaper.

So an audio interface, like thebehringer and the presonous ones mentioned have the preamp built in, so you can just do


Microphone - xlr - interface - usb lead - computer


They will also take guitar jack, synth input and anything else you want to chuck in them

[NoSleep]

I was thinking about this some more and I reckon that if this is as good quality as I believe ART gear usually is, then this is where the required savings can be made without too much detriment to the overall sound quality of the set up. It's cheap because it's behind the curve rather than poor quality.

As I say, my iO2 still sounds great - it picks up the detail of my AKG C3000B mic beautifully. If Shoulders is going to use cheap mics, then I don't believe he will reap the benefits of 24-bit/96kHz anyway.

I'd say 16 bit is fine if your recording and levels are optimal, whilst a 24 bit recording leaves room to be tweaked into reasonable shape. If something is imprecise, then it's more important to retain as much detail as possible (like photographing clouds). That's why I can never understand the practice I see of offering 78 RPM rips as mp3s at 128kbps; you need to go the opposite way; if something is lower quality you need to be sure to not lower it further. The trade-off of sound between the preamps on the Presonus and the ART is probably negligible compared to the difference between 16 and 24-bit recording. In 24-bit you can afford to be far more liberal in leaving headroom for the stray loud bits you may encounter during recording without loss of much resolution, whereas in 16-bit you are already in need of worrying about loss of resolution if you don't push the volume up to just below 0dB (so you're in more danger of clipping).

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

If you're using a multitrack DAW, like REAPER, you will have to configure it with your audio interface. Presuming you get something like the Presonus, it's inputs and outputs will automatically become, as far as REAPER is concerned, inputs 1 & 2 and outputs 1 & 2. When you set up to record audio in REAPER it will want to know what input you want to use for each track. If you configure two mono tracks and assign them to inputs 1 & 2 and hit record, they will be recorded as two separate tracks. You also have the option of assigning a single stereo track to "input 1-2" (which you might do with a matched pair of microphones to make an ambient stereo recording of a performance or perhaps a field recording). Essentially your audio interface will have to be assigned to your preferred audio software. If you had 8 in/out you could record into the software over 8 channels simultaneously, etc. Every DAW will work something like this.

What a fucking nightmare. Cheers though. I'm sure it isn't as awful in practice. Fuck sake.

[NoSleep]

It isn't a nightmare.

All you do is go to the relevant page in preferences/audio/device and select your interface (as it may have initially defaulted to the native soundcard).

Then when you are on the main arrange page there will be a way to select what input you want to record from for each track in your arrangement that is an audio track (as opposed to a MIDI track or a virtual instrument track).

It's convenient.

[spamwangler]

yea its way simpler when youre actually looking at the thing rather than seeing all the instructions in text form like

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

yea its way simpler when youre actually looking at the thing rather than seeing all the instructions in text form like

Yes I'm sure.

I think I'd better understand the kit a bit more by doing some reading/looking at diagrams before buying anything.

[spamwangler]

Yes I'm sure.

I think I'd better understand the kit a bit more by doing some reading/looking at diagrams before buying anything.

don't know if these are useful: heres a diagram of the most common setup






also midi inputs for if you are a CUNT

[mrpupkin]

Essentially I want to be able to record clear minimal hissy guitar and vocals at the same time, while they record to seperate tracks, while picking up a decent pair of over ear headphones so I don't annoy the neighbours.

This does exactly what you want, sounds great and is easy to use: https://uk.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2

[NoSleep]

Did you miss the bit where he also wants mics, headphones, etc on top of the audio interface and the total should come to £200?

[mrpupkin]

Woah what are ya, the budget...guy? No, just thought it was worth suggesting as I have one and it's good. Our pal might consider going over budget for a one-time purchase if it's the right kit. Worth mentioning anyway.

[NoSleep]

A friend of mine bought one of those Scarlett 2i2s and was experiencing crosstalk problems with another purchase he had made (a Roland TR8) when plugged into the Scarlett. He first of all thought it was the TR8 that was at fault, but after upgrading his audio interface to a Scarlett 8i6 (and the crosstalk issue disappearing) he realised the problem was the 2i2. It's probably not screened very well and was picking up RF from the TR8 it seems. I'm sure there's compromises on all these low budget 2 in/2 out audio interfaces, though.

[mrpupkin]

Low budget? It was too expensive a minute ago

[Johnny Yesno]

Did you miss the bit where he also wants mics, headphones, etc on top of the audio interface and the total should come to £200?

There's this pack for £214.90: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Focusrite-Scarlett-Studio-Interface-recording/dp/B01E6T50BO/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

I've got a Focusrite Saffire and I've been pretty pleased with it. However, there are bunch of pissed of purchasers in the one-star reviews for the Scarlett pack.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

This does exactly what you want, sounds great and is easy to use: https://uk.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2

Thanks for that and to spamwangler for the diagram, that's helping make it clear.

Looks tricky for that price getting the microphones, cables and headphones but perhaps I should look at second hand gear.

[NoSleep]

Low budget? It was too expensive a minute ago

The Presonus is cheaper with all the same facilities plus MIDI in and out.

[Johnny Yesno]

don't know if these are useful: heres a diagram of the most common setup

Don't plug your USB cable into your monitor, though.

[Johnny Yesno]

I'd say 16 bit is fine if your recording and levels are optimal, whilst a 24 bit recording leaves room to be tweaked into reasonable shape. If something is imprecise, then it's more important to retain as much detail as possible (like photographing clouds). That's why I can never understand the practice I see of offering 78 RPM rips as mp3s at 128kbps; you need to go the opposite way; if something is lower quality you need to be sure to not lower it further. The trade-off of sound between the preamps on the Presonus and the ART is probably negligible compared to the difference between 16 and 24-bit recording. In 24-bit you can afford to be far more liberal in leaving headroom for the stray loud bits you may encounter during recording without loss of much resolution, whereas in 16-bit you are already in need of worrying about loss of resolution if you don't push the volume up to just below 0dB (so you're in more danger of clipping).

Ah, thanks for the info. I think I tend to go for optimal levels out of habit having used tape in the past.

[Johnny Yesno]

Thanks for that and to spamwangler for the diagram, that's helping make it clear.

Looks tricky for that price getting the microphones, cables and headphones but perhaps I should look at second hand gear.

Or adapt your way of working for the time being so that you only need one mic.

[NoSleep]

Looks tricky for that price getting the microphones, cables and headphones but perhaps I should look at second hand gear.

That's a good idea, but if you look for a secondhand audio interface make sure that your current computer still supports the drivers for it.

[mrpupkin]

The Presonus is cheaper with all the same facilities plus MIDI in and out.

Ok mate, nice chatting with you

[Johnny Yesno]

Ha. Seems I wrong about my Alesis iO2. It's 24-bit: http://www.alesis.com/products/legacy/io2

In that case, I can recommend the iO2. £45 here:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/audio-midi-interfaces/alesis-io2-audio-interface/1283728490

[NoSleep]

The Presonus is cheaper with all the same facilities plus MIDI in and out.

And the Behringer U-Phoria is even cheaper, with MIDI in and out and features sampling rates up to 192kHz (which, of course, you may never use). £65 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U-PHORIA-UMC204HD-Audio-Interface/dp/B00SAV96JM/?ie=UTF8&qid=1519049610&sr=8-1&keywords=behringer+u-phoria

[Johnny Yesno]

And the Behringer U-Phoria is even cheaper, with MIDI in and out and features sampling rates up to 192kHz (which, of course, you may never use). £65 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U-PHORIA-UMC204HD-Audio-Interface/dp/B00SAV96JM/?ie=UTF8&qid=1519049610&sr=8-1&keywords=behringer+u-phoria

Looks good, and the Amazon customer reviews look fine overall (one customer purchased this to replace a faulty Presonus), though there are far fewer reviews in total than for the Focusrite Scarlett and the Presonus.

[spamwangler]

The Presonus is cheaper with all the same facilities plus MIDI in and out.

MIDI is for absolute FUCKING CUNTS THO, please dont use MIDI thanks

[spamwangler]

im biased, but im really chuffed with the behringer one - non usually a behringer fan, - preamps are really nice, leading to a nice clean sound

also, - make sure your audio interface is one with a power supply - some phantom mics struggle to draw enough power out of the usb power supply, so a powered usb cable makes for more stability

[NoSleep]

MIDI is for absolute FUCKING CUNTS THO, please dont use MIDI thanks

So it's quite handy to have just in case some cunt brings some MIDI around.

[spamwangler]

here is my budget recipie:

behringer audio interface, 2 mic inputs, 65quid
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U-PHORIA-UMC204HD-Audio-Interface/dp/B00SAV96JM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519061951&sr=8-1&keywords=behringer+uphoria

acoustic guitar mic: superlux s502 STEREO MICROPHONE 110 quid
https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_s502.htm?ref=search_rslt_superlux_239398_3
two microphones fixed in ORTF position, which is a nice allroundermic position for recording things with a nice stereo sound, - a common way to record a nice stereo guitar sound, no fiddling around with multiple mic stands, - less room for experentation with mic positions, but more predictable and usable results

t.bone cheap large diagram condenser  30quid
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc300.htm?ref=search_rslt_t.bone+large+diagragm+condenser_165293
this brand is thomann's own brand stuff - its really decent for budget, its sort of like their loss leader stuff, theyre like the amazon of the music gear world so they can make cheap stuff decent - use this one on voice, and maybe chuck it on guitar too

headphones - superlux hd660 25quid
https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_hd660.htm
these are great knockoff versions of expensive beyhrdynamic sudio headphones, - really convincing sound, but not as well built as the exensive ones, -

thatd come to 230 i guess? fuck nearly in budget

[spamwangler]

So it's quite handy to have just in case some cunt brings some MIDI around.

if some cunt brings some MIDI around, fuck him right out the door, this aint no promotional video for a powerstation circa 1994

[spamwangler]

also, apparently loads of vocalists use small diagram condensers for vocals, and im just being a dick about that, which is good to know

[NoSleep]

also, - make sure your audio interface is one with a power supply - some phantom mics struggle to draw enough power out of the usb power supply, so a powered usb cable makes for more stability

That proviso eliminates every single interface we've discussed. In my experience of these budget interfaces the important thing is to connect them direct to one of your computer's USB sockets, where it can get a full 5V all to itself. Don't connect it via a hub (especially not an unpowered hub).