Trump #7 - Kremlin's in the system

[Cuellar]

Yeah but frankly, who gives a shit what you think?

:(

I just don't know why you and manticore are assuming I want to see North Korea levelled by the US, a situation that only seemed likely because of Trump himself.

I just don't get the seemingly automatic negativity about this. Is it because it's Trump?

What's the solution to NK, what we've been doing for half a century? What we did before that, killing vast amounts of people there? Giving up nukes would be suicide for them, as would using them, so that aside if other things can improve there, I don't see how that's not a good thing, except for the maniacs in Washington.

Well it is a good thing. Seems to do little more than reaffirm the commitment to peace that Kim Jong-Un and Moon Jae-In signed in April. The idea to end the military exercises seemed to be news to South Korea, so that could well have been Trumpian improvisation.

[Paul Calf]

I just don't get the seemingly automatic negativity about this. Is it because it's Trump?

What's the solution to NK, what we've been doing for half a century? What we did before that, killing vast amounts of people there? Giving up nukes would be suicide for them, as would using them, so that aside if other things can improve there, I don't see how that's not a good thing, except for the maniacs in Washington.

Because it's nothing but a PR suck-job for two of the biggest cunts in the world? That?

[Head Gardener]

Curb Your Summit

[biggytitbo]

And who are you? The resistance! And what are you resisting? Historic peace talks! Isn't that a bit cynical, stupid and dangerous? Don't care, Trumpppppp!

[manticore]

Because it's nothing but a PR suck-job for two of the biggest cunts in the world? That?

Sometimes you have to accept that in this world of greater and lesser evils, it's best to accept the lesser - the reduced possibility of war. Whatever the motives of the shitheads bringing it about, surely one might as well provisionally get behind it?

[Cuellar]

It's amazing what ISN'T in the agreement, though.

As several people here have pointed out, North Korea would never actually USE their nuclear weapons, and they're not going to give them up either, so surely the commitment to denuclearization is entirely academic.

Anything about human rights in there? No? Oh well.

Great deal! No specifics, and doesn't even address the main problem in the country.

[manticore]

Please. You really think that?

Well why do they hate these little moves towards peace with N. Korea? Why are they so intent on maintaining hostile relatiions with Russia?

[biggytitbo]

Because it's nothing but a PR suck-job for two of the biggest cunts in the world? That?

Yeah, that's definitely what counts, they're both dicks. Not 2 countries that have been locked in bitter hostilities for decades, causing misery for millions of people and leading to regional tensions that are constantly threatening to spill over into a disastrous larer conflict making at least some movement in the right direction towards a peaceful solution.

[biggytitbo]

Sometimes you have to accept that in this world of greater and lesser evils, it's best to accept the lesser - the reduced possibility of war. Whatever the motives of the shitheads bringing it about, surely one might as well provisionally get behind it?

But surely continuing to be on the brink of nuclear war and getting crushed by sanctions is better than provisional optimism about peace talks? What kind of maniac would think otherwise?

[Artemis]

I just don't get the seemingly automatic negativity about this. Is it because it's Trump?

Yes, in a nutshell. But not entirely without reason. He's proven himself to be an instinctive reactionary lacking the kahonas necessary to be POTUS, and he's so gratuitously incompetent that it sickens anyone to credit him with doing anything well, as if that must be either accidental or down to the diplomats beneath him. So congratulations sticks in the throat here, but I do think it's deserved. If nothing else, the decision to meet KJ-U must surely have been his and even if a wild gamble, it's taken the world closer to meaningful dialogue with him than anything attempted before.

So, well done Trump, you fucking clown.

[newbridge]

biggy is right for once on this one, although personally I find it hard to be optimistic about any of this sticking when John Bolton and a bunch of neocon generals run the government.

What are they planning? Probably something bad.

[Paul Calf]

Yeah, that's definitely what counts, they're both dicks. Not 2 countries that have been locked in bitter hostilities for decades, causing misery for millions of people and leading to regional tensions that are constantly threatening to spill over into a disastrous larer conflict making at least some movement in the right direction towards a peaceful solution.

You're quite stunningly incurious when it suits you, aren't you?

[biggytitbo]

We should be cautious of course, thats not the same thing as using the opportunity of an historic peace conference to try and wreck any promise the historic peace conference might hold.

[Artemis]

it's nothing but a PR suck-job for two of the biggest cunts in the world?

Of course it's that. But not in isolation.

[Alberon]

Good can come of this hollow PR piece. It needs to be followed up. The details need to be sorted out. A cast iron verification process put in.

It could happen, but I honestly don't think this is what either side is aiming for.

[Danger Man]

I just don't get the seemingly automatic negativity about this. Is it because it's Trump?

Obviously. If Obama had done something like this, instead of playing with drones for eight years, he'd have gotten a second Nobel Peace Prize.

[bgmnts]

Nah what it needs is a solid injection of been annihilated by the US military or slowly driven into the ground by generations of crippling sanctions. But still - Trump! thats what's important.

Well, Trump is the leader of America innit?

[Artemis]

Obviously. If Obama had done something like this, instead of playing with drones for eight years, he'd have gotten a second Nobel Peace Prize.

What did he get his first one for, again?

[Danger Man]

What did he get his first one for, again?

Being mixed-race?

[Artemis]

Being mixed-race?

Not so fast. Have we seen his long-form something or other? Half white until proven otherwise.

[newbridge]

Setting side the #Resistance carpetbaggers on Twitter that not worth paying attention to, the opposition in the media is not entirely down to hating Trump (the media mostly fellated Nixon on foreign policy even when he was a Watergate punching bag). It's because the press corps is obsessed with the military and "national security" sources, and will dutifully parrot the fact that those groups probably hate this.

Which makes me wonder what the long con is here, because those same groups control Puddin'Head Trump. I suspect Trump went rogue and agreed to stop the military exercises over his advisors objections, and he will soon get cold feet and find an excuse to renege on the agreement to escalate things again.

[biggytitbo]

The US president meeting, shaking the hand and talking with the leader of North Korea, just in itself, is hardly hollow or meaningless. It might well stall there but its still something that should be welcomed and encouraged not cynically denigrated in the cause of petty partizan politics and hobby horses.

[Alberon]

As I've said the North Koreans have wanted such a meeting for decades as it puts them on the level of the President of The United States and gives them legitimacy. 

It's fine to give them this if this initial summit is followed up by something with a few actual details and clear commitments. If it isn't then we've just given Kim a huge step on the path to reduced sanctions while keeping his nukes for nothing.

[biggytitbo]

Setting side the #Resistance carpetbaggers on Twitter that not worth paying attention to, the opposition in the media is not entirely down to hating Trump (the media mostly fellated Nixon on foreign policy even when he was a Watergate punching bag). It's because the press corps is obsessed with the military and "national security" sources, and will dutifully parrot the fact that those groups probably hate this.

Which makes me wonder what the long con is here, because those same groups control Puddin'Head Trump. I suspect Trump went rogue and agreed to stop the military exercises over his advisors objections, and he will soon get cold feet and find an excuse to renege on the agreement to escalate things again.

Seems the most likely explanation. As trump isn't politically sophisticated enough to be involved in any kind of 4-d chess  'long con' and as the national security state and MIC obviously don't want a demilitarised Korean peninsula, you can only presume that Trump does keep going off piste only to have to be reigned in and backtrack later.

[Crisps?]

I didn't bother reading the links on the previous page but I scrolled down the Vice one to:

"Dealmaker Trump cancels South Korea war games — and gets nothing in return"

I guess the world gets no more fucking war games in return (and the US saves a bit of money not jerking its military off for a while).

In fact clicking the (war games) link just now, Trump sounds like the voice of sanity:

"it's a very provocative situation. So under the circumstances that we're negotiating, I think it's inappropriate to be having war games," Trump said.

[Crisps?]

As I've said the North Koreans have wanted such a meeting for decades as it puts them on the level of the President of The United States and gives them legitimacy.

How is North Korea any less legitimate than any other country in the world?

[Cloud]

Grow up you fucking  bellend

Excellent, well reasoned argument there fuckwit.

[Alberon]

Sorry, I meant it gave the leadership legitimacy.

I think it's a genuine worry that neither side is really interested in following this up with something substantive.

It is a good start, but if nothing follows then it's worthless. Only time will see if this is a great deal or a greater failure than the talks in the 1990s.

[Artemis]

It's not a deal in any respect, to either side. Both will get back to bullshitting their gimps, who'll lap it up, but it's nothing. Read the thing they both signed; it's the treaty equivalent of a glass of water. But, it was never going to be anything more. It is what it is, and it happened, and that's a good thing.

[Cloud]

I just don't get the seemingly automatic negativity about this. Is it because it's Trump?

No and yes...

I'm not negative about the concept.  If he manages to achieve lasting peace and stability on the Korean peninsula, fantastic!  Give Trump that well deserved Nobel prize and let's see if he can sort the Middle East as an encore.

But it's because it's Trump that I have a few questions about what is actually going on because he flip flops like a freshly caught trout.  I'm a bit cynical about it as Trump does what's good for Trump and one wonders what's in it for him to become besties with Kim all of a sudden.