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March 29, 2024, 09:10:27 AM

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Trump #7 - Kremlin's in the system

Started by Mister Six, February 18, 2018, 08:06:24 PM

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Twed

Bernie Sanders refused to say he thinks ICE should be abolished on CNN today. I hope he doesn't run in 2020, he's too hated and too weak when there needs to be a hardline.

Others don't seem to be as into Elizabeth Warren as a candidate as I am, but I'm all for her. She's got that streak in her that doesn't shy away from saying clear-cut things that rock the boat.

Howj Begg

Quote from: Dog Botherer on June 24, 2018, 06:56:37 PM
is it okay to call him a fascist yet



some of us have been doing that from the start, yes, because obvious fascist is obvious.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Twed on June 24, 2018, 10:06:11 PM
Bernie Sanders refused to say he thinks ICE should be abolished on CNN today. I hope he doesn't run in 2020, he's too hated and too weak when there needs to be a hardline.




Twed

That's not the same as just wanting the best possible candidates with the best possible policies. It shouldn't be about personalities. As somebody who cheered Bernie hard for being the best chance at fixing things last time around, I am very happy to criticise him when necessary.

I can't imagine being loyal to a political personality. That's checking yourself out of morality.

Ferris


Bhazor

Quote from: Twed on June 24, 2018, 10:20:08 PM
That's not the same as just wanting the best possible candidates with the best possible policies. It shouldn't be about personalities. As somebody who cheered Bernie hard for being the best chance at fixing things last time around, I am very happy to criticise him when necessary.

Nope. You will support democrats. I don't give a fuck who they put up. You will support democrats. They may not be perfect but the republican's are fucking GI Joe villains. You will fucking grin and bear it.

newbridge

Quote from: Twed on June 24, 2018, 10:20:08 PM
That's not the same as just wanting the best possible candidates with the best possible policies. It shouldn't be about personalities. As somebody who cheered Bernie hard for being the best chance at fixing things last time around, I am very happy to criticise him when necessary.

I can't imagine being loyal to a political personality. That's checking yourself out of morality.

Glad to see you finally read what I've been posting for the past however many years.

Twed

#1927
Quote from: Bhazor on June 24, 2018, 11:09:02 PM
Nope. You will support democrats. I don't give a fuck who they put up. You will support democrats. They may not be perfect but the republican's are fucking GI Joe villains. You will fucking grin and bear it.
Fuck off. People like you will dance your way to the polls to elect any monster with good PR and then blame everybody else when somebody racist beats them. Like almost everybody else in the world I supported your dumbfuck candidate as far as she could take herself. I'm ordering you to put some effort into asking for better candidates. This is your fault.

Quote from: newbridge on June 24, 2018, 11:10:40 PM
Glad to see you finally read what I've been posting for the past however many years.
Fuck off. You're not spinning this one. Pointing out when one candidate isn't always perfect and the ideal person to run has nothing to do with your propaganda. I would support the shit out of Bernie over anybody you're stanning for.

My god, look at what crawls out of the woodwork as soon as the slightest hint of progressive criticism rears its head. We are so fucked.

Dog Botherer

Joe Manchin is a Democrat who votes with Republicans over 60% of the time. He's not the only one either.

Of fucking course it matters who the Democratic candidates are. If they're shitty career centrists who'll jump left or right at the drop of the hat they think it'll help their career what use are they? Better to have someone with a bit of integrity.

btw I don't think Warren is a great candidate but her and Bernie are lightyears better than the milquetoast liberal trio of Gillibrand, Harris, and Booker. I expect all 5 to run though.

newbridge

Quote from: Twed on June 24, 2018, 11:15:41 PM
Fuck off. You're not spinning this one. Pointing out when one candidate isn't always perfect and the ideal person to run has nothing to do with your propaganda. I would support the shit out of Bernie over anybody you're stanning for.

I stanned for Bernie Sanders when he was an option, and then he no longer was, and the options were Clinton or Trump. All of these people in elected office are bad. Do you think Warren is going to call for the abolition of ICE either? Probably not, but we live in an anti-democratic system and are only presented with a limited number of options are a given time, some of which are objectively better than others.

The personalities of the candidates are irrelevant because they are all terrible by nature of having chosen to become politicians.

newbridge

Quote from: Dog Botherer on June 24, 2018, 11:28:55 PM
Joe Manchin is a Democrat who votes with Republicans over 60% of the time. He's not the only one either.

Of fucking course it matters who the Democratic candidates are. If they're shitty career centrists who'll jump left or right at the drop of the hat they think it'll help their career what use are they? Better to have someone with a bit of integrity.

btw I don't think Warren is a great candidate but her and Bernie are lightyears better than the milquetoast liberal trio of Gillibrand, Harris, and Booker. I expect all 5 to run though.

Joe Manchin is a fucking dunce who also happens to be several orders of magnitude better than the Republicans who inevitably run against him. That's the way our glorious system operates.

manticore

Quote from: Bhazor on June 24, 2018, 11:09:02 PM
Nope. You will support democrats. I don't give a fuck who they put up. You will support democrats. They may not be perfect but the republican's are fucking GI Joe villains. You will fucking grin and bear it.

I thought this might be a meant a bit ironically or something but then I remembered your views on the drone program and its great merits, a wonderful Democratic project only gainsaid by the bloody Republicans, and I realised not.

(God I hope I've got the right bloke here, 98% sure it was was you anyway.)

Mister Six

Surely to god nobody here disagrees with the notion of campaigning for better representation while also voting tactically to keep ultra-toxic cunts like Trump and his supporters from making everything even worse?

The mainstream Dems want to keep the shitty status quo; the mainstream Republicans want to make the status quo substantially worse for women, the poor, people of colour and LGBTQ folks, among others. Both are distasteful, but in a national election, the former is preferable to the first.

Twed

Which is why it's so suspicious/distasteful when people are preemptively telling us to shut up and eat our centrism at this point in time. We are far from needing to hold our noses to support the shitty, unfairly promoted Dem candidate again. Major fuck offs to those who are trying to get us in line already.

Mister Six

Well we're about five months from that, if you care about the midterms - which you should.

Uncritically supporting the Dems is madness, of course, but mithering about their lack of absolute political purity once the voter booths open up is a terrible idea. Not saying you agree or disagree with that sentiment, just expressing it.

manticore

'Vote Labour Without Illusions' was the old Socialist Worker's Party slogan, one of the few things I agreed with them about. Bit pointless trying to vote Labour in the US though, Democrats the next best thing I suppose.

brat-sampson

When your choices are raw sewage and ice cream, it's not the best time to go campaigning about how the Ice cream isn't fair trade/organic enough. Especially when the other side seems to fucking love sewage.

EDIT OK, not even ice cream, just some bland ass semolina or something. Tofu with rice. And sprouts. It's still better, and you have to play the game.

Head Gardener


Twed

Quote from: brat-sampson on June 25, 2018, 04:22:42 PM
When your choices are raw sewage and ice cream, it's not the best time to go campaigning about how the Ice cream isn't fair trade/organic enough. Especially when the other side seems to fucking love sewage.
Yeeeeeees, but the "non-organic ice cream" (way too generous) isn't even a candidate yet. It's actually not the time to be telling people to settle. Now is the time to campaign for better. No shit Dem candidate is locked-in yet. I don't know what honest reason you'd have for telling us to settle before the bad option is even an option. We helped the shit candidate before. We get it. You're missing something here. We're still at the choosing stage.

manticore

Quote from: brat-sampson on June 25, 2018, 04:22:42 PM
When your choices are raw sewage and ice cream, it's not the best time to go campaigning about how the Ice cream isn't fair trade/organic enough. Especially when the other side seems to fucking love sewage.

It's absolutely the right time to support candidates who are most likely to beat the Republicans candidates against those who aren't. When would be a better time than this?

Like these people for example:

https://www.justicedemocrats.com/

Or this bloke, ex-Trump voter who developed more insight and helped lead the teacher's strikes against Republican administrations, now running for Congress. I found this educational:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgMuXoueTMY

newbridge

Quote from: manticore on June 25, 2018, 05:18:37 PM
It's absolutely the right time to support candidates who are most likely to beat the Republicans candidates against those who aren't. When would be a better time than this?

Like these people for example:

https://www.justicedemocrats.com/

Or this bloke, ex-Trump voter who developed more insight and helped lead the teacher's strikes against Republican administrations, now running for Congress. I found this educational:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgMuXoueTMY

I don't think anyone in this thread is opposed to voting for more progressive Democrats in the primaries.

manticore

Quote from: newbridge on June 26, 2018, 02:08:08 AM
I don't think anyone in this thread is opposed to voting for more progressive Democrats in the primaries.

Please read the brat-simpson post I was answering. Because I do think it's

Quotethe best time to go campaigning about how the Ice cream isn't fair trade/organic enough.

The very best time, because that's the best way to get the Ice cream candidates who people will want to vote for and thus beat the raw sewage.

Alberon

More wins for Trump in his trade wars.

In response to EU tariffs (which were a response to US tariffs) motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson has announced plans to move some production out of the US. Otherwise the cost of each bike in Europe (their second biggest market) would jump by about $2000 each.

Trump has tweeted his surprise.

QuoteSurprised that Harley-Davidson, of all companies, would be the first to wave the White Flag. I fought hard for them and ultimately they will not pay tariffs selling into the E.U., which has hurt us badly on trade, down $151 Billion. Taxes just a Harley excuse - be patient #MAGA

George Oscar Bluth II

I love that Trump, who plays a businessman on TV, doesn't understand how international business works. It's great.

Isnt Anything


manticore

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on June 26, 2018, 11:01:25 AM
I love that Trump, who plays a businessman on TV, doesn't understand how international business works. It's great.

There's something wonderful about his shambolic incompetence. The clueless moron is never going to make führer the way he's going.

Buelligan

If only so many H-D employees didn't have to lose their jobs and know they'd been taken by the forrins...

Gulftastic

Quote from: Isnt Anything on June 26, 2018, 03:47:13 PM
Oh fuck

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44619976

(supreme court upholds trumps travel ban 5-4)

We better get ready for a lot more of these. The stolen SCOTUS seat is going to come into play more and more.

Howj Begg

Quote from: manticore on June 26, 2018, 03:58:41 PM
There's something wonderful about his shambolic incompetence. The clueless moron is never going to make führer the way he's going.

Interesting to compare your post with the one directly above it, with the latest news of how Trump as president is having major impacts on the country's laws, and the lives of minorities - Mexicans, Muslims etc.

I look forward to your next 'But Obama' post in reply

newbridge

Quote from: Gulftastic on June 26, 2018, 05:05:35 PM
We better get ready for a lot more of these. The stolen SCOTUS seat is going to come into play more and more.

It's worse now than ever, but the Supreme Court has been controlled by fascists for nearly 50 years now. Almost everything wrong with the US today can be traced back to that fact in some way or another.