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Musical 'F*** my Hat, I didn't know that!'

Started by Rocket Surgery, February 21, 2018, 08:37:46 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 19, 2019, 10:20:13 AMI think I heard this story on an episode of ChartMusicPodCast - and if I did, then I'd bet you did too.
No, never listened to that. I do work with a couple of people who visit family in Jamaica on a regular basis, so it may have been one of them that mentioned it to me.

Crabwalk

Trade Secretary and massive fuckface Liam Fox gets a 'thank you' credit on Natalie Imbruglia's mega-selling 'Left of the Middle' album.

ToneLa

Quote from: Crabwalk on February 19, 2019, 11:10:59 AM
Trade Secretary and massive fuckface Liam Fox gets a 'thank you' credit on Natalie Imbruglia's mega-selling 'Left of the Middle' album.

Say whAaaaaaAAA

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on February 19, 2019, 09:30:17 AM
I'm sure someone told me that country music was/is popular in Jamaica.

I remember reading somewhere it was because of Jamacia's proximity to southern USA they were able to pick up some of the more powerful radio signals and listen to country music stations.


fatguyranting

Trade Secretary and massive fuckface Liam Fox gets a 'thank you' credit on Natalie Imbruglia's mega-selling 'Left of the Middle' album.

They were I think a couple at one point.





gilbertharding

Quote from: Better Midlands on February 19, 2019, 11:50:06 AM
I remember reading somewhere it was because of Jamacia's proximity to southern USA they were able to pick up some of the more powerful radio signals and listen to country music stations.

Ah, now I remember reading - ages and ages ago - that the degraded sound quality of radio received from the USA in Jamaica almost literally resulted in Reggae - the musicians were attempting to replicate the sound of the soul records they liked but had only heard on AM radio.

Mind you, I'm old enough to remember when Radio 1 was subject to this kind of atmospheric interference (although I can't remember if it was usually worse, or better, at night) and my only regret is it didn't cause me to invent an internationally popular new pop music genre.

poodlefaker

"You know when you've been Tangoed" - Gil Scott-Heron, that is.

gib

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 19, 2019, 12:36:04 PM
Ah, now I remember reading - ages and ages ago - that the degraded sound quality of radio received from the USA in Jamaica almost literally resulted in Reggae - the musicians were attempting to replicate the sound of the soul records they liked but had only heard on AM radio.

Mind you, I'm old enough to remember when Radio 1 was subject to this kind of atmospheric interference (although I can't remember if it was usually worse, or better, at night) and my only regret is it didn't cause me to invent an internationally popular new pop music genre.

Jamaicans who did seasonal work in the USA would bring back blues and soul records, and these were played at dances so people would know what they were supposed to sound like, especially musicians. I also think the dodgy reception theory does a bit of a disservice to these musicians' creativity.

buzby

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 19, 2019, 12:36:04 PM
Mind you, I'm old enough to remember when Radio 1 was subject to this kind of atmospheric interference (although I can't remember if it was usually worse, or better, at night)
Reception is usually better at night (particularly in the lower AM frequency bands) because they propogate by bouncing off the ionosphere. At night there is little to no solar UV radiation to ionize the gas molecules in the ionosphere so the signals are attenuated less when reflecting off it.

Quote from: buzby on February 19, 2019, 02:17:19 PM
Reception is usually better at night (particularly in the lower AM frequency bands) because they propogate by bouncing off the ionosphere. At night there is little to no solar UV radiation to ionize the gas molecules in the ionosphere so the signals are attenuated less when reflecting off it.

Although I used to find that the MW band used to get more crowded at night, due to the longer broadcast range of the transmissions, meaning more interference and essentially worse reception!

gilbertharding

Yes that's right - I remember being aggrieved that Radio 1 only broadcast in stereo on VHF during the day, which meant that where I lived (Cambridgeshire) John Peel was barely audible above the fizzing, crackling and fading on MW.

(A story relayed to me by my brother who did a week's work experience at Quad Electronics when he was in the 5th Form: One of his mates asked why their tuners didn't have MW, and the boss snootily said "We don't make equipment for pop fans.")

gilbertharding

Quote from: buzby on February 19, 2019, 02:17:19 PM
Reception is usually better at night (particularly in the lower AM frequency bands) because they propogate by bouncing off the ionosphere. At night there is little to no solar UV radiation to ionize the gas molecules in the ionosphere so the signals are attenuated less when reflecting off it.

Is that why all the oldies get all misty eyed when they remember listening to Luxembourg on their trannies under the blankets?

beanheadmcginty

You would have thought that AM would work best in the morning.

Bennett Brauer

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 19, 2019, 03:44:36 PM
Is that why all the oldies get all misty eyed when they remember listening to Luxembourg on their trannies under the blankets?

I miss trawling FM for local radio stations and chancing upon the rozzers channel. (Someone at school convinced me that "report of a stolen car" was code for "pick us up some fish and chips". I was young though. And a bit slow.)


Quote from: Bennett Brauer on February 19, 2019, 06:54:46 PM
I miss trawling FM for local radio stations and chancing upon the rozzers channel. (Someone at school convinced me that "report of a stolen car" was code for "pick us up some fish and chips". I was young though. And a bit slow.)

I was told when I was a kid that it was 'illegal' to listen to that.

Bennett Brauer

I think I was told that as well.

If it isn't illegal, they've certainly made it extremely difficult to eavesdrop on them today. I think you have to have the same transmission equipment that they have, basically.

studpuppet

Quote from: Better Midlands on February 19, 2019, 11:52:20 AM
http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2015/05/reggae-country-feature

I know this because my Jamaican-descent colleague's grandmother is a massive Jim Reeves fan.

Also, am I misremembering it, but isn't the old lady in Mars Attacks West Indian? It's her Slim Whitman record that proves to be the Martians' undoing.

buzby

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 19, 2019, 03:42:51 PM
(A story relayed to me by my brother who did a week's work experience at Quad Electronics when he was in the 5th Form: One of his mates asked why their tuners didn't have MW, and the boss snootily said "We don't make equipment for pop fans.")
Quad did produce AM tuners well into the 33/303 amp era. The AM3 (designed to complement the FM3 stereo VHF tuner) was produced between 1969 and 1973:

It's why the 33 preamp has two tuner inputs.

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 19, 2019, 03:44:36 PM
Is that why all the oldies get all misty eyed when they remember listening to Luxembourg on their trannies under the blankets?
Yes, it's also why radio hams can communicate to other hams across oceans and continents in the right conditions(they also use moon bouncing to get long distances too).
Quote from: Bennett Brauer on February 19, 2019, 06:54:46 PM
I miss trawling FM for local radio stations and chancing upon the rozzers channel. (Someone at school convinced me that "report of a stolen car" was code for "pick us up some fish and chips". I was young though. And a bit slow.)
The VHF 'Police Bands' were above and below the public broadcast VHF/FM band, so if you had an old variable capacitor-based tuner that wasn't aligned particularly well then you could pick up some of the police radio too (usually only the control, unless there was a car nearby).
Quote from: Darles Chickens on February 19, 2019, 08:42:41 PM
I was told when I was a kid that it was 'illegal' to listen to that.
Quote from: Bennett Brauer on February 19, 2019, 09:09:49 PM
I think I was told that as well.

If it isn't illegal, they've certainly made it extremely difficult to eavesdrop on them today. I think you have to have the same transmission equipment that they have, basically.
Yes, it's illegal under the Wireless Telegraphy Act to listen to licensed private radio systems like police, taxis etc (it's also illegal to listen to air band unless you have passed the radio exam as part of getting a pilot's licence). It's why the sale of scanners by Tandy and Maplin was always a legally murky area.

It's impossible to listen to the police now as they moved from using VHF radios to Airwave, which is basically a private GSM mobile phone network (it used to be run by O2). Like GSM, the digital audio data is  encrypted, and it hops frequencies as well, making it impossible to eavesdrop unless you have access to the encryption and hopping algorithms it uses.

Bennett Brauer

Quote from: buzby on February 20, 2019, 12:55:27 AM
It's impossible to listen to the police now as they moved from using VHF radios to Airwave, which is basically a private GSM mobile phone network (it used to be run by O2). Like GSM, the digital audio data is  encrypted, and it hops frequencies as well, making it impossible to eavesdrop unless you have access to the encryption and hopping algorithms it uses.

Two can play at that game. Pold are dcikheads who can't be trustde.

Quote from: buzby on February 20, 2019, 12:55:27 AM
The VHF 'Police Bands' were above and below the public broadcast VHF/FM band, so if you had an old variable capacitor-based tuner that wasn't aligned particularly well then you could pick up some of the police radio too (usually only the control, unless there was a car nearby).

I remember them being on around 98-102MHz, before that range was opened up to national radio around 1990, and the BBC put Radio 1 there.  So I decided to look into the history of FM transmissions in the UK.

Seems that the initial frequency allocation for FM broadcasts was just 88.1-97.6 MHz, most of which was allocated to the BBC, with a small amount of room for independent local radio.  Presumably tuners in the late 70s / early 80s would have been confined to this FM range.  Meanwhile, emergency transmissions happened below and above this range (80-85 MHz, 97.7-102.2 MHz).

In 1983, it was decided to extend the FM band from 87.6-107.9 MHz, making room for new commercial stations - but the emergency services still occupied that range between 97.7-102.2 MHz until 1989, when they were reallocated to the BBC and a national independent broadcaster (Classic FM).  The top end of the FM band, from 105-108 MHz was only released for broadcasting as "recently" as 1995, which surprised me.


The Bumlord

Quote from: poodlefaker on February 19, 2019, 12:49:14 PM
"You know when you've been Tangoed" - Gil Scott-Heron, that is.


Ha, nice one mate. Like you're going to fool me with that ridiculous oh my god it's true

Jockice

Quote from: fatguyranting on February 19, 2019, 12:23:16 PM
Trade Secretary and massive fuckface Liam Fox gets a 'thank you' credit on Natalie Imbruglia's mega-selling 'Left of the Middle' album.

They were I think a couple at one point.

I've heard that before but I refuse to believe it until shown proof. And by that I mean a video of them shagging. Although I doubt if I'd be able to watch more than a second of it.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: Crabwalk on February 19, 2019, 11:10:59 AM
Trade Secretary and massive fuckface Liam Fox gets a 'thank you' credit on Natalie Imbruglia's mega-selling 'Left of the Middle' album.

It's because he used to be the DJ, Dr Fox.


pupshaw

Citation required. Lookup pictures of old 60s and 70s radios and you will see the FM bands always go up to 108Mhz

Quote from: Darles Chickens on February 20, 2019, 10:23:54 AM
I remember them being on around 98-102MHz, before that range was opened up to national radio around 1990, and the BBC put Radio 1 there.  So I decided to look into the history of FM transmissions in the UK.

Seems that the initial frequency allocation for FM broadcasts was just 88.1-97.6 MHz, most of which was allocated to the BBC, with a small amount of room for independent local radio.  Presumably tuners in the late 70s / early 80s would have been confined to this FM range.  Meanwhile, emergency transmissions happened below and above this range (80-85 MHz, 97.7-102.2 MHz).

In 1983, it was decided to extend the FM band from 87.6-107.9 MHz, making room for new commercial stations - but the emergency services still occupied that range between 97.7-102.2 MHz until 1989, when they were reallocated to the BBC and a national independent broadcaster (Classic FM).  The top end of the FM band, from 105-108 MHz was only released for broadcasting as "recently" as 1995, which surprised me.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: buzby on February 20, 2019, 12:55:27 AM
Quad did produce AM tuners well into the 33/303 amp era. The AM3 (designed to complement the FM3 stereo VHF tuner) was produced between 1969 and 1973:

It's why the 33 preamp has two tuner inputs.
Yes, it's also why radio hams can communicate to other hams across oceans and continents in the right conditions(they also use moon bouncing to get long distances too).The VHF 'Police Bands' were above and below the public broadcast VHF/FM band, so if you had an old variable capacitor-based tuner that wasn't aligned particularly well then you could pick up some of the police radio too (usually only the control, unless there was a car nearby).Yes, it's illegal under the Wireless Telegraphy Act to listen to licensed private radio systems like police, taxis etc (it's also illegal to listen to air band unless you have passed the radio exam as part of getting a pilot's licence). It's why the sale of scanners by Tandy and Maplin was always a legally murky area.

It's impossible to listen to the police now as they moved from using VHF radios to Airwave, which is basically a private GSM mobile phone network (it used to be run by O2). Like GSM, the digital audio data is  encrypted, and it hops frequencies as well, making it impossible to eavesdrop unless you have access to the encryption and hopping algorithms it uses.

Tetra is completely different to gsm. At a high level it works in a similar way, I suppose, but all the codecs and routing are different.

One of the things tetra is capable of, but even modern 4g mobile standards aren't is near-instantaneous PTT, mobiles have a habit of chopping the front off, which has significant problems when you consider messages like 'DON'T SHOOT'.

My old man installed the trial Tetra system in Brum before Airwave got the contract. I remember him dragging me to huts on hills in the Midlands to fuck around with the rack mounted stuff on school holidays when I was too young to be left at home.

Prior to that he helped one police force implement an analogue encrypted system, I think it used a vocoder that shifted the frequencies based on a key and time so it sounded garbled. Apparently the pawn shops were full of tandy scanners the following week.

I think he still has a garage full of Philips FM1100's and the hand-portable version that he intends to reprogram to 70cm/2metre bands.

Sebastian Cobb

Shamefully I've also not actually tried my FM3. Basic curiosity should've driven me to it, I know.

Might have to pull it out and listen to Late Junction or something. I can imagine radio 3 is one of the few stations that won't just sound bollocks.

It's interesting how AM/FM shaped music production. Lots of 'classic' rock being produced for American AM rock stations. Of course classic 60's girl groups and garage bands sound grand through an AM radio, it's clear they were produced to sound hot through it, but they also sound like an AM radio on a clear set up.

buzby

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 24, 2019, 05:32:49 PM
Tetra is completely different to gsm. At a high level it works in a similar way, I suppose, but all the codecs and routing are different.
I was simplifying for the general audience. My employer were subbies for most of the cell site installs in Northern England and Scotland for the Airwave network (and are now working on it's replacement, ESN). Our 'Blue Light' division also did loads of cab installs for a few Fire Services (including some early ones where a third-party PSU would occasionally burst into flames). The Rail division also did a load of GSM-R cell site installs for Network Rail too.
Quote
Prior to that he helped one police force implement an analogue encrypted system, I think it used a vocoder that shifted the frequencies based on a key and time so it sounded garbled. Apparently the pawn shops were full of tandy scanners the following week.
It used to be pretty interesting, but there's bugger all to listen to with a scanner now. During the Toxteth riots we were sat listening to the police on my dad's LW/MW/VHF/'Police Band' Teleton radio (the Police Band also picked up the 41.5MHz 405-line sound carrier, so during the power cuts in the 70s we used ot listen to the TV on it).

I always remember on my first site visit with work, the senior engineer (who was a Ham) had his handheld scanner with him and we were listening to the analogue cellphone network all the way there and back.
Quote
I think he still has a garage full of Philips FM1100's and the hand-portable version that he intends to reprogram to 70cm/2metre bands.
Very nice. The same Ham used to reprogram old Pye/Philips PFX handhelds by putting new PROMs in them, and he wrote his own software to reprogram PR710s for the Ham bands.

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 24, 2019, 08:57:12 PM
Shamefully I've also not actually tried my FM3. Basic curiosity should've driven me to it, I know.

Might have to pull it out and listen to Late Junction or something. I can imagine radio 3 is one of the few stations that won't just sound bollocks.
It sounds pretty good (mated to the 33, as it's output is a little low compared to line level on modern preamps), and with a decent aerial it gets very good signal discrimination. The only problem is the 300ohm DIN/IEC dipole aerial connector, which are getting very expensive and hard to find (it was only used by Quad, B&O and some native German manufacturers). You can get adapters to connect more modern 75 ohm antennas with a coax connector though (I was lucky enough to get the original 300 ohm antenna with mine).