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Metal Gear Solid V [split topic]

Started by AsparagusTrevor, February 26, 2018, 12:15:14 PM

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AsparagusTrevor

I picked Metal Gear Solid V back up recently after abandoning it - for no reason really, I just played other things.

I'm enjoying it though, I think having a rest from it helped.

St_Eddie

Quote from: AsparagusTrevor on February 26, 2018, 12:15:14 PM
...Metal Gear Solid V...

I don't think that I'll ever bother to play Metal Gear Solid V.  I love the first (technically, third) game for the PSOne but the sequels leave me cold.  There's a purity and focus to the original Metal Gear Solid, that's lacking from the subsequent installments.  The radar and the enemies' sight cone, makes the game feel like a game of Pac-Man, if that makes sense*?  The sequels got increasingly convoluted and as such, I would argue; diluted.  Therefore, the open-world nature of Metal Gear Solid V is pretty much the antithesis of what I want from a Metal Gear game.

* It doesn't.

Quote from: AsparagusTrevor on February 26, 2018, 12:15:14 PMI'm enjoying it though, I think having a rest from it helped.

Today I learned that Metal Gear Solid V is like family.

St_Eddie

Well, apparently Neil doesn't care for my non-new games thread.  I see you there, Neil.  *narrows eyes*

Barry Admin

No, sorry, I hate those list threads, always have. After a month or two I get sick of the sight of them and of the burden of feeling like I have to keep up with them, so I just ignore them and miss lots of good stuff.

It's very hard to get people on here to start new threads too, so those ones end up as dumping grounds that swallow up a lot of the more interesting, niche discussions. This became a big problem fairly early on in CaB with the "things threads."

So I use them to farm new threads. CaB is busier than it's been for years, but some of the subforums (like this one in particular) are too slow, for some reason.

AsparagusTrevor

If I'd have known I was starting a new thread with my post I would've put a bit more effort into it!


Quote from: St_Eddie on February 26, 2018, 12:31:48 PM
I don't think that I'll ever bother to play Metal Gear Solid V.  I love the first (technically, third) game for the PSOne but the sequels leave me cold.  There's a purity and focus to the original Metal Gear Solid that's lacking from the subsequent installments.  The radar and the enemies sight cone, makes the game feel like a game of Pac-Man, if that makes sense*?  The sequels got increasingly convoluted and as such, I would argue; diluted.  Therefore, the open-world nature of Metal Gear Solid V is pretty much the antithesis of what I want from a Metal Gear game.

* It doesn't.

Today I learned that Metal Gear Solid V is like family.
I can see why people wouldn't like it and it's extremely different to all the MGS games before it, including the relative lack of cutscenes.

It's odd, as open-world grinding is something I don't like but MGSV clicked with me. It helps that the gameplay is spot on, basically the best stealth mechanics you could wish for, giving you a lot of choice in your approach. The variety of missions is lacking a bit but they're all satisfying to pull off.

It's not open-world as something like GTA or Fallout though, although you've got the freedom to run around a huge map the mission structure is still pretty linear. There's also a lot going on with micromanagement and such, R&D upgrade trees and base-building, but you can kinda put as much or as little into that side as you want.

bgmnts

One of the biggest disappointments ever for me personally. Almost as bad as KOTOR 3 being replaced with a stupid cunting MMORPG.


Credit where its due, though, the FOX engine and the gameplay rocks.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Barry Admin on February 26, 2018, 12:41:20 PM
No, sorry, I hate those list threads, always have. After a month or two I get sick of the sight of them and of the burden of feeling like I have to keep up with them, so I just ignore them and miss lots of good stuff.

It's very hard to get people on here to start new threads too, so those ones end up as dumping grounds that swallow up a lot of the more interesting, niche discussions. This became a big problem fairly early on in CaB with the "things threads."

So I use them to farm new threads. CaB is busier than it's been for years, but some of the subforums (like this one in particular) are too slow, for some reason.

Mate, I hate list threads too.  A list of things people like, don't like or are indifferent to, is a very boring thing indeed.  Lists are good for a trip to Tesco ('steal torch', 'look inconspicuous') and little else.  I hate lists on forums with a passion.  Simply stating that you've played game X or watched film Y, without expressing your views on X or Y is utterly pointless.  You might as well say "X is a game which exists" and then fuck off back into irrelevance.

You see, I created that thread with the intention of sparking discussion and debate.  I would actively discourage people from simply listing a game they recently played but I would encourage people to name a game they've played and give an opinion upon it.

Quote from: AsparagusTrevor on February 26, 2018, 12:57:48 PM
If I'd have known I was starting a new thread with my post I would've put a bit more effort into it!

Bah!  So my thread was not worthy of your maximum effort?  I'm doing a lot of eye narrowing today.  *narrows eyes*

Bazooka

Its a great game, but after so many loading screens you try to perfect a mission only to fuck up and waste an hour of your time with no save points, hmm. I loved it, but one of the few games I loved, that I never completed.

Could argue many games are like this, Monster Hunter for example, but that doesn't give you loading screens to the same degree.

Famous Mortimer

I love the first one (well, the Gamecube version of it), part 2 and part 3, missed part 4 completely and am currently starting 5. It's...alright? Much like St_Eddie, I loved the enclosed nature of the earlier iterations, with the cones of vision and the way the maps were designed to give you all sorts of little challenges. But with this, you try and do a mission without getting spotted, ride over a hill nowhere near anywhere, a patrol spots you, boom, however long worth of gameplay down the drain.

I'm just not sure. Do I just want to play variations on MGS2 over and over again? Yes, I suppose I do. I'll keep giving it a go, I guess, as the mechanics are lovely, just...

Zetetic

Regarding the patrols - they're very much not "near nowhere", I think, but stick to routes (indeed schedules) connecting outposts. There are tools, albeit gated, to make it less likely that you'll run into one without warning (most companions, I think, have some sort of spotting system although I guess that can detract if you'd rather avoid that elsewhere).

I suppose it is ... looser overall but the mechanics of the open world still seem fairly scrutable, and I don't think I'm very good usually with that sort of thing. (But obviously scrutability and what seems an enjoyable variable risk can be quite personal.)

I don't think I'll ever bother to finish it - I have it in a state where I can return to it to play around with a lot of stuff unlocked, and I'm given to understand there's not much more of interest/joy in what's left of the abortive story. I wonder if I'll play through the start again one day.

Famous Mortimer

Fair enough, I just ran into them on more than one occasion and was a bit puzzled as to why this was happening so far from the bases. I don't know, I'll stick with it (although it's a bummer hearing Kiefer Sutherland's voice rather than David Hayter's).

It's a mechanical and systemic marvel, on par with Breath of the Wild, and better in many respects. It takes the limited puzzle stealth purity of the early games and somehow applies the core gameplay principles to a Far Cry structure. The MMORPG and micromanagement aspects were great, then Konami fucked them (and us) badly and hard to squeeze cash out of idiots (hello) but even that sour taste couldn't mask the rich sweet joy of the core gameplay loop.

If you dismiss it without playing it, you best be medically mental.

asids

The gameplay is fucking perfect. MGS V isn't even my favourite stealth game (hi SCCT) but they absolutely nailed down the gameplay of what a stealth game should be like. Some might say it's a bit trial and error with the checkpoint thing and it gets frustrating, but hey, that's stealth games for you. It's all about learning patterns and movements, having a plan and carrying it out to perfection. The bit at the top of the map in Afghanistan with the ruins that you have to go to a couple of times feels like the perfect stealth challenge; I can't remember the name of it, but it's this place. I loved that bit, it's very much a test of your ability and willingness to learn how to overcome a seemingly impossible challenge.

It's a shame that what surrounds it isn't so great. Like others here, I never finished it and likely never will. I think that's a shame but the fact that's a common occurrence amongst players isn't unsurprising.

It's an obvious joke but not even Kojima finished it.

Golden E. Pump

Nope.

Played it for about twenty hours and I agree that there are a lot of fun gameplay elements, but my praise for the game ends there.

It's basically an extended demo disc. It's graphically impressive, but there are just two big corridors to look at. It's not open world, you are forced to take paths between identical locations with nothing of interest in between guard posts. You're given so much choice for equipment, none of which is ever needed because the only way to play the game is to tranquilise all enemies and recruit them so you can improve your base. The main aspect of the game. It's a glorified spreadsheet in that sense.

The story is an abomination. For a game franchise built on cinematic storytelling, the only story you get is by listening to tapes. For hours. There's a twist that shits all over the story for the subsequent games, no interesting new characters and no sense of threat or suspense.

I played it for ages, thought 'this is cool', then soon realised that I'd been doing the same thing over and over again with no storyline to compel me to get further.

Metal Gear Solid 4 was batshit and way too fanservice-y. But this was just flat out disappointing. I'd rather play Metal Gear Solihull.

I mean, that's...that's bollocks.

There's loads of story and plenty of cut scenes.

And bollocks also to the tranquiliser gun point. The enemy get tooled up procedurally depending on your strategy. They learn what you do and what you use, and adapt to that. If you use the tranquiliser and go for head shots, they'll start wearing helmets. If you use shotguns, they'll wear body armour. Always do the night missions, they'll start carrying torches. You're constantly having to find new approaches.

In summary, I agree with you on MJ and would have you hung drawn and quartered over MSGV

bgmnts

The story, characters and cut scenes element of MGSV is what was so disappointing to me. Just pisses all over the franchise in my opinion.

I mean look at Revolver Ocelot, the most insane, interesting character in the series and he just turns into a bland Troy Baker nothing.

Golden E. Pump

If we talk about Metal Gear Solid 3 though.

What. A. Game.

magval

Quote from: Golden E. Pump on February 26, 2018, 10:01:13 PM
If we talk about Metal Gear Solid 3 though.

What. A. Game.

One of my fondest memories is staying up all night to finish that the first time and going straight to school and falling asleep at the front desk in my first class, feeling perfectly safe and happy to do so and still buzzing about how amazing the whole night had been despite the dreadful microwave burger I'd self-destructive lyrics consumed when I couldn't figure out what to do at the end of the ghost canal.

bgmnts

MGS 1, 2 and 3 are all utterly brilliant.

Bazooka

Don't go forgetting Peace Walker now.

bgmnts

Quote from: Bazooka on February 26, 2018, 11:54:09 PM
Don't go forgetting Peace Walker now.

Peace Walker i think is genuinely better than 4 and 5 but it is a bit weird, I can see why other people wouldnt be into. I never played Portable Ops though.

Thinking about it, if you played Peace Walker then the mechanics of V wouldnt be particularly new and interesting to you.

Consignia

I couldn't get into Peace Walker, what with all those bullet sponge bosses. It's controls felt a bit wrong too IIRC, although I did play the PS3 version rather than the PSP original, which it was clearly built for.

Bazooka

Quote from: Consignia on February 27, 2018, 12:01:09 AM
I couldn't get into Peace Walker, what with all those bullet sponge bosses. It's controls felt a bit wrong too IIRC, although I did play the PS3 version rather than the PSP original, which it was clearly built for.

Yes, I only played the PSP version and it was excellent. Portable ops was good too, but impossible to play after Peace Walker because you had to drag soldiers very slowly to a truck at the start of the level to capture them, as opposed to the fulton system.

H-O-W-L

I respect Piss Wanker's gameplay and all, but the fact it exists pisses me off. We didn't need to see Big Bucks's life past MGS3, Kojima. All you've done is turn a mythical, legendary bastard into a cheating bastard. I don't buy into the legend of Bug Bongs as an actual good bloke like a lot of people do, but it infuriates me that any sort of ambiguity about what he was doing to become such a Big Soldier Man was lost with POOPS, Piss Wanker, and V.

Thursday

Yeah, I know it's easy to make fun of MGS for it's story, but everything post MGS3 has been badly handled, and it didn't need to go so wrong. MGS4 is equally to blame as Peace Walker here though. I think SuperBunnyHop has done the best videos on the topic.

Famous Mortimer

I just tried to watch one and couldn't cope with his weird glancing off to the side thing.

Famous Mortimer

I had a few more goes and I just don't think it's for me. I like the limitations of the previous MGS games, in terms of space and how you can "learn" the environment; much as I enjoy the controls and all that, I'm just not feeling it. I might revisit it, maybe not.

Also, I'm bored of playing as Big Boss. I spent forever figuring out how to kill this prick and his mates, and now I have to be him? Yes, yes, cloning and all that, but screw him. Solid Snake / Raiden for life.

Shay Chaise

Kind of difficult to mention without hmm, basically, I understand your frustrations re: story but MGSV is not what it seems.

Zetetic

As a minor point, once you've got some more people on Mother Base, you can play them most of the time.