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Netflix In-House Movies Discussion Thread

Started by Sin Agog, February 28, 2018, 02:55:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Sebastian Cobb

There were quite a few classic noirs on there a while back. Including the excellent Double Indemnity.

Sin Agog

I've empirically experienced and witnessed how Netflix, and the sheer gottdamned preponderance of new product in general, has made old movies feel more and more like museum pieces.  If even I went through a phase of finding it hard to watch ye olde cinema- someone who could probably write a biography of Jimmy Cagney or Michel Simon if he had the wherewithal- I hate to think of the effect it has on people who never even got to experience the joys of lazing at home sick while a Powell & Pressburger unfurls on BBC 2.  The past is a foreign country, and it takes learning the beats and rhythms of an old film to really lock in, but I genuinely feel like Netflix doesn't want you doing that.  The person who lets me use their account, I can see their eyes start to glaze over whenever you propose watching something more than a couple of years old.  Art has a stream-by-date, because it's the old pictures that are small, not our capacity to learn how to connect with the past.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Sin Agog on March 02, 2018, 02:51:40 PM
I've empirically experienced and witnessed how Netflix, and the sheer gottdamned preponderance of new product in general, has made old movies feel more and more like museum pieces.  If even I went through a phase of finding it hard to watch ye olde cinema- someone who could probably write a biography of Jimmy Cagney or Michel Simon if he had the wherewithal- I hate to think of the effect it has on people who never even got to experience the joys of lazing at home sick while a Powell & Pressburger unfurls on BBC 2.  The past is a foreign country, and it takes learning the beats and rhythms of an old film to really lock in, but I genuinely feel like Netflix doesn't want you doing that.  The person who lets me use their account, I can see their eyes start to glaze over whenever you propose watching something more than a couple of years old.  Art has a stream-by-date, because it's the old pictures that are small, not our capacity to learn how to connect with the past.

It's not Netflix that doesn't want that, they're just being sensible with their business mind and offering more of what most subscribers want.  And exactly the same can be said for Amazon, cinemas and TV...

It's a sad truth that most people under the age of 40 simply aren't interested in anything made before the 80s, let alone Powell and Pressburger, or classic noirs.  Perish the thought it's in black and white and/or has subtitles.  Again, that's not Netflix's (or Amazon's) fault, it's the nature of people and the culture they want.

ieXush2i

I Don't Feel At Home In This World Anymore
Mudbound
The Little Prince
the Pee Wee film
Tallulah
Beasts Of No Nation
Okja
Gerald's Game
Hush
First They Killed My Father

There's quite a few good ones, not to mention all the Netflix Original documentaries and documentary series

Sin Agog

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on March 02, 2018, 03:00:15 PM
It's not Netflix that doesn't want that, they're just being sensible with their business mind and offering more of what most subscribers want.  And exactly the same can be said for Amazon, cinemas and TV...

It's a sad truth that most people under the age of 40 simply aren't interested in anything made before the 80s, let alone Powell and Pressburger, or classic noirs.  Perish the thought it's in black and white and/or has subtitles.  Again, that's not Netflix's (or Amazon's) fault, it's the nature of people and the culture they want.

If Netflix really wanted to remedy this, they'd cast Humphrey Bogart and Lillian Gish in Stranger Things 3 as new transfer students, but I'll bet anything they won't do that.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Sin Agog on March 02, 2018, 03:27:13 PM
If Netflix really wanted to remedy this, they'd cast Humphrey Bogart and Lillian Gish in Stranger Things 3 as new transfer students, but I'll bet anything they won't do that.

Only cos Bogey asked for too much money and Gish wanted to direct.  They've gone for Ralph Meeker and Cornel Wilde in drag instead.

(I've not seen Stranger Things - Mrs Nose, who has a very keen [ahem] nose for what I would and wouldn't like, tells me I would hate it.  I trust her assessment.)

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on March 02, 2018, 03:00:15 PM
It's not Netflix that doesn't want that, they're just being sensible with their business mind and offering more of what most subscribers want.  And exactly the same can be said for Amazon, cinemas and TV...

It's a sad truth that most people under the age of 40 simply aren't interested in anything made before the 80s, let alone Powell and Pressburger, or classic noirs.  Perish the thought it's in black and white and/or has subtitles.  Again, that's not Netflix's (or Amazon's) fault, it's the nature of people and the culture they want.

If you do want that then there's Mubi. I'm struggling to keep up.

Although they might be not what the audience want it doesn't cost much to get the rights for old films (I think in it's early stages Netflix did get in stuff like this to keep the numbers up). Our local television station pads out its schedules with them every day; they're not even old flops or anything, I've seen The Entertainer, 1 Million Years BC and Billy Liar in there.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

It makes sense that Netflix would invest in making their own stuff, as I expect most major studios are going to follow Disney and create their own streaming services. Even so, the relative lack of old films has been my biggest surprise/disappointment with it. I'd have thought you could get tons of old stuff for a pittance.

Sebastian Cobb

Well that and if they commission their own stuff then they can make it available through every netflix region (something they claim they've always wanted to do) rather than have to broker deals individually because of the way film distribution tends to work.

Streaming's a funny one, unlike physical products where competition typically always benefits the consumer, in streaming it inevitably results in fragmentation. Of course you don't just want one mob doing anything either because then they've got no incentive to improve.

olliebean

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on March 02, 2018, 05:24:06 PMAlthough they might be not what the audience want it doesn't cost much to get the rights for old films (I think in it's early stages Netflix did get in stuff like this to keep the numbers up).

Whereas now they do that by buying in loads of cheap Indian and Korean stuff.

Z

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 02, 2018, 05:36:40 PM
It makes sense that Netflix would invest in making their own stuff, as I expect most major studios are going to follow Disney and create their own streaming services. Even so, the relative lack of old films has been my biggest surprise/disappointment with it. I'd have thought you could get tons of old stuff for a pittance.

I imagine the upside of having them would be grossly outweighed by them clogging up search results and fucking up the algorithms for Netflix's core customer, the person who wants Netflix to choose everything for them. And to be fair, if I'm just putting shit on to blankly stare at, the last thing I'd choose is a some old classic.

The Indian stuff is probably much easier to filter out. Although it's making it really hard for me to assess the quality of the 21st century international film options. I assume it filters out all this bollocks on the site quite well?

Sebastian Cobb

Netflix use Elasticsearch interestingly enough. It'll be fine.

Z

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on March 02, 2018, 10:10:56 PM
Netflix use Elasticsearch interestingly enough. It'll be fine.
But Netflix don't know what people don't know until they know they don't know it. That is to say, that producing a bunch of irrelevant crap early on will already fuck up the cultureless user's experience and relationship with the product. Widening the number/range of films for the sake of it or in an attempt to allure someone like me just bumps up the chances of them unintentionally putting up something that'll make a user go "how on earth did it think I'd like that?!"

kidsick5000

Quote from: buzby on March 02, 2018, 11:27:54 AM
Yes, it was specifically prompted by the screening of Thor: Ragnarok Mike went to where he was in a theatre packed with idiots and sat next to a large sweaty smelly man loudly eating for the entire film. I don't think his problem is going to the theatre per se, it's specifically going to a megaplex to see mass-market films and the audience they attact.

I was at a gig last night with a pissed couple having a domestic behind me and the people in front watching through the now-standard sea of smartphones and at points I was thinking I'd prefer to be watching this on TV.

It can't be said enough how much the theatre chains inaction towards patrons' behaviour is killing the cinema experience.
I'm fed up of going to regular screenings because I'm on edge trying to work out whether I'm going to get to watch in peace.
I hope the rise of streaming services does prompt some action on the part of the chains.
But this is part of an industry that decided to hector people who bought DVDS with anti-piracy messages.
But chances are if the attendance numbers continue to fall, they'll bleat and blame the studios for the films not being good enough.

newbridge

Quote from: Sin Agog on February 28, 2018, 06:15:40 PM
By the way, Amazon did put out Manchester By the Sea, which I guess was the closest one of these things have come to gaining true critical props.

I think Amazon just won the bid for distribution rights for Manchester By the Sea. They've distributed a number of mainstream or critically acclaimed films now, like Paterson, the last few Woody Allen movies, Lost City of Z. Likewise Netflix won distribution rights to Mudbound which is up for a few Oscars this year, and some other "proper" movies.

I don't totally understand how the business works, but I think those distribution deals are different than a movie like Bright, that Netflix wholly or partially bankrolled production of.

According to Wikipedia, I owe Netflix a partial apology for the shit Cloverfield film, because it was produced and shoehorned into the Cloverfield franchise by Paramount, and Netflix only came in on the back end as distributor.

Netflix is basically the modern Blockbuster putting all of these shit direct-to-video movies on its shelves, although they are also funding/producing shit films as well (Bright). On the other hand they did co-produce Okja, which I've heard is quite good.

Mister Six

Quote from: Z on February 28, 2018, 09:27:02 PM
There isn't a single Netflix originals show I rate especially much, or Netflix film, and I think it's largely by design. It's all very light easy to watch garbage, people go on about how it's the best time ever for new scripted television in the US but there isn't a single show on right now I'd consider a serious top-tier all-time great.

Bojack Horseman. But yeah, they're basically more interested in just having as much "content" as possible than in actually exercising quality control. Unlike Amazon, which actually seems to put some effort into finding unique visions and stories, and ensuring they're as well-produced as possible, Netflix just hoovers up anything it can, usually by tossing a bit of money at foreign stuff so it can get distribution rights in other territories (I think Happy Valley was a "Netflix Original" in the US).

Speaking of Amazon, Patriot is fucking incredible television. I need to find the time to make a thread for that, because it's amazing.

Dex Sawash

Patriot is good. Wish it was one ep a week so we could have a proper thread.

zomgmouse

Quote from: Sin Agog on March 02, 2018, 02:51:40 PM
I've empirically experienced and witnessed how Netflix, and the sheer gottdamned preponderance of new product in general, has made old movies feel more and more like museum pieces.  If even I went through a phase of finding it hard to watch ye olde cinema- someone who could probably write a biography of Jimmy Cagney or Michel Simon if he had the wherewithal- I hate to think of the effect it has on people who never even got to experience the joys of lazing at home sick while a Powell & Pressburger unfurls on BBC 2.  The past is a foreign country, and it takes learning the beats and rhythms of an old film to really lock in, but I genuinely feel like Netflix doesn't want you doing that.  The person who lets me use their account, I can see their eyes start to glaze over whenever you propose watching something more than a couple of years old.  Art has a stream-by-date, because it's the old pictures that are small, not our capacity to learn how to connect with the past.

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on March 02, 2018, 03:00:15 PM
It's not Netflix that doesn't want that, they're just being sensible with their business mind and offering more of what most subscribers want.  And exactly the same can be said for Amazon, cinemas and TV...

It's a sad truth that most people under the age of 40 simply aren't interested in anything made before the 80s, let alone Powell and Pressburger, or classic noirs.  Perish the thought it's in black and white and/or has subtitles.  Again, that's not Netflix's (or Amazon's) fault, it's the nature of people and the culture they want.

I think it's a bit of both. Certainly the phenomenon of Netflix - not even touching on its monopolistic tendencies (to me the proof of this is the way its name has become synonymous with the function it offers, similar to how "iPhone" was the default term for a smartphone until other companies offered decent enough competition) - has not caused a now-focussed mentality in the majority of people in the world. However, with the sheer ease of access and ubiquity of its service, it has undoubtedly aggravated the phenomenon. As SGN says, it's tapped into a desire that already existed. Just look at, say, video rental stores. The most popular items were always new releases, even if there were other sections available, and even those were filled with the stuff that stopped being a new release. Or how on planes, there will be films in the "classic" section that are barely ten years old. It's a shit desire, but they've done well as a business because they've exploited and facilitated it.

phantom_power

A few interesting ones have turned up on Netflix:

Game Over Man - basically a Workaholics film, with the same cast and writer/director and similar characters. A take on Die Hard style action films
Roxanne Roxanne - a biopic of Roxanne Shante, pioneering female rapper
Paradox - directed by Daryl Hannah with music and acting by Neil Young

The last two have had good reviews and the first one could be a lot of fun if you like Workaholics

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: colacentral on February 28, 2018, 03:52:02 PM
I'm the same, and I think the reason for mediocrity and why it will never improve is that there is no incentive for any of it to be good as no one is paying for individual titles. You're already a subscriber so it makes no difference if you watch Okja or not, it's just publicity so they can say in addition to having episodes of this and that we also have exclusively produced stuff.

Bit of a tangent here, but on this point: Red letter media's latest contrarian opinion is that cinemas are bad and a future of all films going straight to Netflix is something they'd prefer. Utterly disingenuos smug cunt thing to say, purely for attention and under the false impression its a cool, funny thing to say, and as wrong as anything they've ever said for several reasons: quality standards being the big one, as already mentioned, especially as Netflix would essentially have a monopoly over the industry, with only some mild competition from Amazon; and the fact that, despite what RLM say, the experience of watching a film in the cinema can't be replicated at home for most people, most people who don't bother with their picture and sound settings, who aren't going to sound proof their living rooms and get black out curtains, etc. If there were no cinemas, details in sound and picture would become less important as most people would be seeing things in bad living room conditions or on tablets, and aesthetic qualities on the whole would lower to the standard of straight to video crap. Why would studios waste money on that stuff when it's not going to be blown up to a huge screen and blasted through high quality speakers?
Possibly worth another thread, but to say that the modern cinema business encourages anything positive (other than picture and sound quality, possibly?) is as disingenuous as anything RLM have said. The current wasteland of remakes and sequels isn't anything anyone ought to be desperate to defend. Obviously, diamonds emerge from the rough, I'm not saying it's all bad. Or maybe people are happy with sequels and remakes.

I think one company dominating all online production is a bad thing, too - I'm internet "friends" with Len Kabasinski, who's been on some RLM videos, and he talks regularly about the appalling deal Amazon give indies for access to their movies. I don't think either system is good for us or people who want to make movies and get them in front of viewers, but I'm not sure of an alternative.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Steven Spielberg Thinks Netflix Films Should Not Qualify for Oscars

Quote"Fewer and fewer filmmakers are going to struggle to raise money or to go to compete at Sundance," he said of the annual film festival that takes place in Park City, Utah. "More of them are going to let the SVOD businesses finance their films, maybe with the promise of a slight one week theatrical window to qualify them for awards as a movie. But, in fact, once you commit to a television format, you're a TV movie."

"Television is really thriving with quality and heart, but it poses a clear present danger to filmgoers."

The director then confirmed that he does not plan to conform to the trend of making films with streaming services: "I'll still make The Post for audiences asking them, 'Please to go out to the movies to see The Post,' and not make it directly for Netflix."
An earnest warning from a cinematic master, or the mitherings of a past it old man?

Famous Mortimer

I mean...the average cost of a ticket continues to rise, even taking inflation into account, and wages continue not to. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/about/adjuster.htm - on the most basic level, it's becoming tougher for people to have a night out at the movies.

Sundance is just another way for already wealthy people to get publicity for their products which already have distribution. I'm not sure it's ever been a place for complete unknowns to go and get discovered - I'm sure he likes it as he gets treated like royalty at any festival he attends, but he's not had to get distribution help for a movie in over 40 years, so I'm not sure his opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

phantom_power

Cinema tickets seem to have gone up ridiculously over the last few years. I think the increase in price for 3D films seems to have bumped up normal screenings as well.

VelourSpirit

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 28, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
I find prime, in the uk at least, just sticks to films that did alright at the box office. It's a modern day blockbuster video. Netflix has some alright cult classics and indie films in it. I haven't watched all that many of the originals. There's plenty of bland drek on Amazon Prime as well.

Pretty accurate. Does have the Three Colours films and most of Jim Jarmusch's filmography going for it though.

phantom_power

The Florida Project has just come on Prime as well, along with stuff like The Big Sick and Moonlight

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: TwinPeaks on March 27, 2018, 10:59:07 PM
Pretty accurate. Does have the Three Colours films and most of Jim Jarmusch's filmography going for it though.

is three colours free now? fuck's sake, i bought them on amazon video a few years ago.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: phantom_power on March 27, 2018, 08:59:45 PM
Cinema tickets seem to have gone up ridiculously over the last few years. I think the increase in price for 3D films seems to have bumped up normal screenings as well.
The only ludicrously expensive one near me is alleged cinephile's choice, The Curzon, which really is only slightly better than watching at home on a big telly (seriously, the sound there is so bad that half the dialogue in Blade Runner 2049 was rendered unintelligible). The local evil multiplex chain places have actually halved their prices lately. I know they're only doing it to squeeze out independent places, but if the rest are as bad as the Curzon, I say fair enough.

phantom_power

All the cinemas near me are at least 11 quid a ticket, when they were about 8 or less a couple of years ago

Butchers Blind

Quote from: phantom_power on March 28, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
All the cinemas near me are at least 11 quid a ticket, when they were about 8 or less a couple of years ago

Plus the added annoyance of other people.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 28, 2018, 01:06:47 AM
The only ludicrously expensive one near me is alleged cinephile's choice, The Curzon, which really is only slightly better than watching at home on a big telly (seriously, the sound there is so bad that half the dialogue in Blade Runner 2049 was rendered unintelligible). The local evil multiplex chain places have actually halved their prices lately. I know they're only doing it to squeeze out independent places, but if the rest are as bad as the Curzon, I say fair enough.
But prices are, on the whole, going up even taking inflation into account. Sadly, not everyone lives near a place where multiplexes are trying to drive arthouse places out of business.