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No, you’re just gonna have to turn this opportunity yes!

Started by Twit 2, March 02, 2018, 08:31:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

buzby

Quote from: Mister Six on March 02, 2018, 09:11:37 PM
That's because it's not a heist movie - it's a relationship movie that's complicated by a heist.

Though the heist was remarkably prophetic of the Hatton Garden burglary - a bunch of old lags break into a safe deposit facility over a weekend by drilling through the wall from the building next door. The only element missing in the real burglary was the swimming pool.

Apparently due to scheduling a similar thing happened during the making of Sexy Beast as what Michael Mann did on purpose with Manhunter. For that, he kept Tom Noonan away from the rest of the cast so none of the actors would get to know him or become comfortable in his presence. Ben Kingsley was busy when they started filming Sexy Beast, so the rest of the cast went out to Spain and filmed their scenes while waiting for him to arrive. The day he arrived they threw a party in the villa for him, and he turned up already in character as Don. Ray Winstone was so uncomfortable around him that he sneaked off, climbed out of a window and went back to his hotel to get away from him.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 03, 2018, 03:19:51 AM
Seriously though, I would never expect Under the Skin to be universally appreciated.  It's far too esoteric and individual for mass appeal.  That's not a bad thing but I can completely understand why it may not be to everyone's tastes.

Patronising.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: spamwangler on March 03, 2018, 07:19:42 AM
i thought under the skin looked very nice, Johansen is great in it, the music us absolute bloody aces, but i've spent no time at all thinking about it after, loved it when it was on, but im somehow not arsed now, i dunno

That opinion means nothing to the evangelical. I thought it was an okay film but the gushing praise heaped on it puts me off watching it again if anything. Although the soundtrack is outstanding.

Dex Sawash

Watched Sexy Beast with a bit of insomnia last night. The heist bit was sort of smashed in sideways. IanMcshane is best in Hot Rod

Funcrusher

#64
Quote from: Serge on March 03, 2018, 11:31:52 AM
Yeah, actually, I do like that. I recently found a folder with tons of Zappa stuff in online, mostly from his first decade as a recording artist, and there are bits on nearly all the albums I like, but then you have to put up with all the silly voices and puerile bollocks which just puts me off. Other than 'Hot Rats', there isn't really an album I could sit and listen to from beginning to end without wanting to skip bits. And if I'm being honest.....I'd skip the title track on 'Hot Rats'.


Yup, I'm never going to be a big Zappa fan - most of the humour doesn't really amuse me, even The Mothers I find a bit of a chore in places and I would imagine that once he gets into the wanky session guitarists plus sleazy humour template in the seventies it's mostly dross. I listened to a bit of one of his synclavier albums after someone mentioned them on here and I have to give props that it might be the very worst music I've ever heard- its sheer terribleness was sort of impressive.

That said, of the ones I've heard apart from Hot Rats I also like Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels Ripped My Flesh and Waka Jawaka but that's it. I once had a copy of Joes Garage - I think I played it once and eventually threw it in a skip

ETA if any passing Zappaphile wants to suggest any others in the vein of the ones I like I'll give them a go on Spotify. Or you can just call me cunt for being rude about Frank.

Sebastian Cobb

#65
Quote from: buzby on March 03, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
Though the heist was remarkably prophetic of the Hatton Garden burglary - a bunch of old lags break into a safe deposit facility over a weekend by drilling through the wall from the building next door. The only element missing in the real burglary was the swimming pool.

Apparently due to scheduling a similar thing happened during the making of Sexy Beast as what Michael Mann did on purpose with Manhunter. For that, he kept Tom Noonan away from the rest of the cast so none of the actors would get to know him or become comfortable in his presence. Ben Kingsley was busy when they started filming Sexy Beast, so the rest of the cast went out to Spain and filmed their scenes while waiting for him to arrive. The day he arrived they threw a party in the villa for him, and he turned up already in character as Don. Ray Winstone was so uncomfortable around him that he sneaked off, climbed out of a window and went back to his hotel to get away from him.

Is he one of those actors that stays 'in role' throughout the whole process then?

Apparently in Operation Good Guys most people were ad-libbing (and were used to it working with Burdis and Anciano), but  DI Beach was given proper lines, which sort of added to his stiff outsider act compared to the rest of the lads.

Twit 2

From what I gather not 100% in character, but certainly trying out aspects, such as the accent and some of the mannerisms.

buzby

Quote from: Twit 2 on March 03, 2018, 12:32:21 PM
From what I gather not 100% in character, but certainly trying out aspects, such as the accent and some of the mannerisms.
Yes, although he and Daniel Day-Lewis are good friends I don't think he goes quite as deep into it as Day-Lewis does. There's a good bit in is Actor's Studio interview where he describes how he 'found' Don's character, saying he's basically a modern-day Iago from Othello:
https://youtu.be/zrw7eMbrmnk?t=5m22s

Gregory Torso

I wonder if actors like Ben Kingsley or, say, Robert Carlisle for example, are capable of "channeling" their inner Don Logan or Begbie if they ever get into any shit in real life. Like just retreating back into a psycho persona and putting the shits up a would-be mugger.

Anyway, I love this film and I rewatched it again because of this thread. I'd forgotten how funny Don Logan is, as well as being yeah, an absolute cunt's cunt, psychopath firework, he's got some brilliant lines, particularly the bit where he's strutting up and down the porch screaming no no no and then calls Ray Winstone a "fucking Dr White honkin' jam-rag fucking spunk-bubble", and the bit on the beach where he says he looks like Idi Amin.
It surprises me when people say they onyl remember Ben Kingsley from this film, as if that's a slieght on the rest of it - the other actors, the lovely magical realism/surrealism bits - rather than a testament to his performance (which isn't just psycho gangster - he's also deeply insecure). Ian McShane's character is, in my opinion, much more dangerous, creepier, psychotic.

Another great bit (paraphrased)
"What's that?"
"It's a goat. They're a nuisance around here."
(pause)
"Why's it fuckin looking at me?"

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Gregory Torso on March 03, 2018, 02:14:46 PM
which isn't just psycho gangster - he's also deeply insecure

Isn't that the norm for your Don Logans and your Begbies? It's what makes them like they are.

Teddy Bass doesn't care about anyone's life and he'll kill if he has to, but he won't hurt people unnecessarily like Don would. That's why he's in charge though.

spamwangler

Quote from: checkoutgirl on March 03, 2018, 11:45:13 AM
That opinion means nothing to the evangelical. I thought it was an okay film but the gushing praise heaped on it puts me off watching it again if anything. Although the soundtrack is outstanding.


Yea if was as fresh and and as interesting as the soundtrack it d be great. More of an upstream colour fan

Gregory Torso

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on March 03, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
Isn't that the norm for your Don Logans and your Begbies? It's what makes them like they are.

Teddy Bass doesn't care about anyone's life and he'll kill if he has to, but he won't hurt people unnecessarily like Don would. That's why he's in charge though.

Yes, I agree. Lovejoy is mega creepy in this. There's absolutely no way of getting one over on him, whereas I think they almost get rid of Don without having to "get rid" of him. He also has those feelings about Jackie which are clearly messing him up.

buzby

Quote from: Gregory Torso on March 03, 2018, 02:14:46 PM
the bit where he's strutting up and down the porch screaming no no no and then calls Ray Winstone a "fucking Dr White honkin' jam-rag fucking spunk-bubble",
It's Aicch he says that to, not Gal
Quote
his performance (which isn't just psycho gangster - he's also deeply insecure)
As he said in the Actor's Studio vid I posted above, he saw Don as an abused child who had never healed, and would then go on to abuse others. He has sympathy for Don as a damaged child, but as an adult he was irredeemable, a mad dog that would continue to bite and bark until it was shot. He is unloved and unhappy, and his actions are driven by a need to destroy other people's love and happiness.. That is another parallel with Manhunter in fact, as it's exactly what Will Graham says to his boss about the 'Tooth Fairy' serial killer (Tom Noonan's character):
Quote from: Will Graham
This started from an abused kid, a battered infant...My heart bleeds for him, as a child. Someone took a kid and manufactured a monster. At the same time, as an adult, he's irredeemable. He butchers whole families to pursue trivial fantasies... As an adult, someone should blow the sick fuck out of his socks...

It may be that in Kingley's case, the process he went through to find Don's character isn't that far removed from what a profiler would do to put themselves in the mindset of a psychopath.

Dex Sawash



BeardFaceMan

Yeah I always thought Kimgsley played it like a particularly intense and violent toddler having a tantrum when hes not getting what he wants.

kidsick5000

Quote from: itsfredtitmus on March 02, 2018, 07:43:02 PM
layer cake?

Layer Cake is far from pedestrian. I'd love that Matthew Vaughn to make another film, instead of the version we have now making dull Kingsman.

Kingsley is amazing in this. Totally dominating. As though no matter how big or muscular you were, you'd think twice about pissing him off.

mothman

I still don't understand the point of the giant gun-toting rabbit.

notnownikki

Quote from: mothman on March 03, 2018, 07:13:10 PM
I still don't understand the point of the giant gun-toting rabbit.

I always saw it as the devil, chasing them for their past deeds. In the end, Logan meets him, and doesn't even flinch.

Dex Sawash

Quote from: mothman on March 03, 2018, 07:13:10 PM
I still don't understand the point of the giant gun-toting rabbit.

It's there because Donny Darko is wellmetagreatness

the ouch cube

YES ROWNTREE.

YES GROSVENOR.

Nofuckingwaynofuckingwaynofuckingwaynofuckingwaynofuckingway, you've made me look like a right cunt, like a right Mr Confused

Gregory Torso

Quote from: mothman on March 03, 2018, 07:13:10 PM
I still don't understand the point of the giant gun-toting rabbit.

It's because Ray and his mate are out shooting rabbits and then he dreams that the rabbit (Don) is coming to shoot him.

Lord Mandrake

For all the imagery of 'Idi Amin, holdall, spunk bubble' etc.. over repeated viewings the less florid 'louse' and 'ponce' carry more weight and menace.

Brundle-Fly

I read an Ian McShane interview around the time Sexy Beast was released where he said he liked to believe his character Wolf from the Richard Burton gangster film, Villain (1971) was actually the young Teddy Bass. He basically turned into Vic Dakin.

Villain divides people (mainly over Burton's performance. It's perfectly fine). It's no The Long Good Friday (1980) but I still think it's one of my favourite gangster movies. Thoroughly vicious.

And the boozer they drink in used to be my local The Assembly House in Kentish Town. Nuff said.

PUB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYvqQ39W7Qg

TRAILER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsL4zBmbl0

McShane on Villain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX8JdB1KsQg

Bleedin' pigeons.

shiftwork2

Particularly fond of the scene where Logan comforts himself in the bathroom mirror for them 'taking liberties'.  There are other examples of this calculated soft approach ('talk to me Gal') but they tend to be short-lived and he reverts to rage mode when it doesn't work immediately.

There's a tremendous sense of time and place in Sexy Beast.  In the scene above, it really feels like an hour after summer sunrise when you've been awake and everyone else is asleep.

Why didn't they just drain the pool and drill through the wall?

buzby

Quote from: shiftwork2 on March 04, 2018, 10:43:42 PM
Why didn't they just drain the pool and drill through the wall?
They use the water to short out the security system in the vault.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I always thought Don Logan was so angry because he was a latent homosexual. There seems to be a vein of homoeroticism running through the film (it's very veiny): James Fox bumming Lovejoy; The heist, featuring a bunch of sweaty men in their swimming togs; Don making some comment about Gal being a beautiful man (possibly written before Winstone was cast); and the fact that Gal is called Gal.

Sebastian Cobb

you missed out jackie shoving her finger up don's bum. he hit the roof, you can imagine!

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


momatt

The heist does feel tagged on, but that's sort of the point.  A bit like Reservoir Dogs (where you don't see the heist at all).  It's more about the preparations and aftermath of the crime and the interactions of the characters.

That said, the bits of the heist we do see are quite cool and interesting, as it's underwater.  Only the later scene with the earrings make it important.


Quote from: Dex Sawash on March 03, 2018, 12:04:58 PM
Watched Sexy Beast with a bit of insomnia last night. The heist bit was sort of smashed in sideways. IanMcshane is best in Hot Rod

YES!
He's great in Hot Rod.  Such a wonderful bastard.  I love that ridiculous film.