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Bond villain strikes again?

Started by Alberon, March 05, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

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Alberon

I'd like to apologise for starting this thread. I should have realised it would give Biggy an excuse to wheel out the same old bullshit again.

Pdine

Quote from: Alberon on March 06, 2018, 11:17:39 AM
I'd like to apologise for starting this thread. I should have realised it would give Biggy an excuse to wheel out the same old bullshit again.

It just beggars belief that he stands by something that's demonstrably lying, by a discredited lawyer who writes for an openly propagandist pro-Russia web site that argues it's time to start calling out the Jews. I say it again: FFS

jobotic

A pox on both their houses - quite. Why can't you do that Biggy?

Pdine - if you love Russiagate so much why don't you marry it?

Buelligan

I have difficulty in understand the idea that "secret" services are innocent until proven guilty.  It's just a very odd position to take if you have an ounce of logic.

Surely the whole (acknowledged) point of them is that they do illegal shit to other sovereign states or enemies of their state and its allies to advantage their own state (and lie about it before, during and afterwards)?  Honesty, legality, truth, none of this shit gets a look in. 

These people are murderers, terrorists, they torture people and destroy lives without compunction.  They are professional sociopaths.

Alberon

Back to the most recent incident. It appears the woman involved is the former spy's daughter and two police officers who helped them are being treated for minor symptoms.

As to the intelligence agencies, of course they're up to illegal and often immoral activities. This spy betrayed his home country for us and ended up here after being exchanged for Russian spies we'd caught.

Pdine

I forgot to say too - on this recent case - the BBC at least started reporting it as fentanyl poisoning before becoming more vague, perhaps at police request.

Pdine

Quote from: Buelligan on March 06, 2018, 11:47:38 AM
I have difficulty in understand the idea that "secret" services are innocent until proven guilty.

It's more that we shouldn't assume that classified information is necessarily false, I think.

Blumf

Quote from: Pdine on March 06, 2018, 12:04:38 PM
I forgot to say too - on this recent case - the BBC at least started reporting it as fentanyl poisoning before becoming more vague, perhaps at police request.

Is Fentanyl really the best tool for this job? I suppose it's easy to acquire and can be sprayed, but a lethal dose would be a stretch.

Alberon

The symptoms the police had were apparently itchy eyes and wheezing.

BlodwynPig

I'm glad the British have been exposed as drug abusing cheats in sport. Scum Wiggins, scum Coe. They've destroyed Western Democracy. We can never trust a British athlete again.

cf. Russia hating.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Alberon on March 06, 2018, 12:28:31 PM
The symptoms the police had were apparently itchy eyes and wheezing.

makes their job difficult I guess - oh sorry, didn't realise the police actually did have this. duh!

BlodwynPig

Quote from: jobotic on March 06, 2018, 11:24:51 AM
A pox on both their houses - quite. Why can't you do that Biggy?

Pdine - if you love Russiagate so much why don't you marry it?

It's less about if Russian higher-ups are big bad evil men, more the drip effect that normal, everyday Russians are outcast, abused and belittled by even sensible folk outside of Russia, e.g., my wife, who is scorned by some absolute fuckwits at Bath University. That's why I oppose this sort of campaign.

ieXush2i


biggytitbo

Quote from: Pdine on March 06, 2018, 11:13:26 AM
It lies when it says that the Inquiry report relied solely on the public evidence in making its finding that Russia probably ordered the killing. That makes the whole rest of the argument moot, as the report itself clearly says it relied on both the public and closed evidence in making that finding of probability.

No you're deliberately misrepresenting his conclusions. Firstly, he states explicitly that he believes there was a strong case based on the open evidence -

QuoteThe open evidence that I have set out above establishes a strong circumstantial case that the Russian State was responsible for Mr Litvinenko's death.

Plus, if you read the full thing it almost entirely composed of him saying he thinks the russian state did it based on evidence openly given to the court. So the author of that article is 100% correct.


BlodwynPig


biggytitbo

Quote from: jobotic on March 06, 2018, 11:24:51 AM
A pox on both their houses - quite. Why can't you do that Biggy?


One side is trying to start WW3.

Norton Canes

'Ex-Russian spy collapsed with daughter'

Just read that as 'Ex-Russian spy collapsed with laughter'

mobias

A quick interjection because I'm at work. I seriously recommend watching this interview with Bill Browder. It's utterly compelling and of real interest to anyone who's interested in how dark Putin and the russian oligarchs are https://youtu.be/VkRXLDnxNKw

Alberon

Quote from: biggytitbo on March 06, 2018, 12:38:13 PM

One side is trying to start WW3.

That is just utterly ridiculous, Biggy.

biggytitbo

If you believe anything Browder says you'll believe anything  -
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/10/28/guardians-of-the-magnitsky-myth/

QuoteInstead, we're fed a steady diet of the frothy myth whipped up by hedge-fund investor William Browder and sold to the U.S. and European governments as the basis for sanctioning Russian officials. For years now, Browder has been given a free hand to spin his dog-ate-my-homework explanation about how some of his firms got involved a $230 million tax fraud in Russia.

Browder insists that some "corrupt" Russian police officers stole his companies' corporate seals and masterminded a convoluted conspiracy. But why anyone would trust a hedge-fund operator who got rich exploiting Russia's loose business standards is hard to comprehend.

The answer is that Browder has used his money and political influence to scare off and silence anyone who dares point to the glaring contradictions and logical gaps in his elaborate confection.


biggytitbo

Quote from: Alberon on March 06, 2018, 12:49:34 PM
That is just utterly ridiculous, Biggy.


Depends what you think WW3 will look like. At the very least they're aching to go back to the cold war so they can ramp up spending on all the tanks and bombs and nukes.

Alberon

They don't need a Cold War II to do that. The US continues to spend an absurd amount on its armed forces.

ieXush2i

Quote from: biggytitbo on March 06, 2018, 12:52:39 PM
If you believe anything Browder says you'll believe anything

Why should we believe anything Alexander Mercouris says?

Alberon

Boris Johnson has pratfalled into the case in his usual delicate manner threatening to respond 'robustly' if any Russian involvement is proven.

Skip Bittman

Maybe he can make a cheesy video of nuclear weapons hitting St. Petersburg or something. To emulate Putin's peaceful ways meant to ease tensions and avoid WWIII. Robustly, of course.

mobias

Quote from: biggytitbo on March 06, 2018, 12:52:39 PM
If you believe anything Browder says you'll believe anything  -
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/10/28/guardians-of-the-magnitsky-myth/

I you believe anything Biggy posts links to you'll believe anything.


Large Noise

In fairness to biggy, Browder is full of shit.

mobias

Quote from: Large Noise on March 06, 2018, 01:09:52 PM
In fairness to biggy, Browder is full of shit.

Really? Why? I'm genuinely curious about the story.

biggytitbo

Browder only gets the time of day because he's willing to gleefully tell the Western media the kind of dark fantasies about Russia they want to hear, he'd be a laughing stock in any other circumstances.

biggytitbo

Quote from: mobias on March 06, 2018, 01:11:07 PM
Really? Why? I'm genuinely curious about the story.


Robert Parry's stories about him are a good starting place.