TV procedurals

[Famous Mortimer]

Because I'd feel bad starting a thread just about Criminal Minds, which is my favourite. Let's talk about the whole wonderful lot of them.

So, Criminal Minds. After losing Mandy Patinkin after season 2 (he was killed, off-screen, in season 10), Thomas Gibson after 12 seasons and 2 episodes (he has anger management issues, apparently) and Shemar Moore after a few more episodes than that (to go and star in his own procedural) they've got themselves a decent cast. Two women best known for comedy in lead roles (Paget Brewster and Aisha Tyler), Joe Mantegna clearly enjoying the regular paycheck, and new guy Adam Rodriguez, who's really good.

I got way behind and am catching up, and am now at the end of season 12, where there's been a weird second-half storyline with resident genius Spencer (Matthew Gray Gubler) framed for a murder and sent to prison. Turns out, the person behind all this (spoilers, I guess, although it's from last year) is Parks and Rec's very own Aubrey Plaza, having fun and being a little OTT. It's a little unbelievable that every law enforcement group apart from the main cast members would be so hostile to Spencer, who's helped arrest hundreds of serial killers, but so be it. I'm on to the last episode now and am looking forward to seeing how they put a bow on this arc.

So, what are your favourites? Do you have any favourites? A fan of old glasses-remover Horatio Caine on CSI Miami?

EDIT: Actually, lots of the cast are best known for comedy - Thomas Gibson is from "Dharma and Greg", and Spencer's mother is a recurring guest role from Jane Lynch.

[Mobius]

Does Person Of Interest count as a procedural? It's quite 'villainof the week' but does have overarching plots...

[BlodwynPig]

Law and Order SVU, but the last 2 or 3 seasons have been dire. Maybe even longer. I liked the gritty late 90s/early 00s look.

[itsfredtitmus]

Meg and Mog.

[itsfredtitmus]

unsure if they are procedural (is X-Files a procedural?) but I like cracker / wire in the blood / prime suspect a bunch

[Natnar]

I like The Blacklist just for how ridiculous it is.

[paruses]

Downloaded a bunch of Homicide:Life on the Street(s?) a while ago and really enjoyed them. The gritty 90s look appeals despite the shaky scenery feel to some of it.

Fan of Criminal Minds but have also fallen way behind. Was very pleased to see Shamar Moore gone - although I liked hate watching him. He managed to portray one of the unintentionally least sensitive and most hypocritical characters I can think of. Disappointed to hear he will have his own procedural.

I liked the long story arc of the super killer. Saw a bit of Spenser in prison but it didn't really wash. Also hate the bits where the "deliver the profile" (in quotes because that is a catchphrase) and then stand in a line and each one says a little bit - bugs the hell out of me.

Overall though am glad it exists.

CSI (original) is the only one I really like although a the bit of the New Orleans one  I have seen is OK. The New York I just find dull for some reason. The glasses one is too hypocritical outside the lab and too ridiculous inside - by the end it might as well have been set in a giant tit orbiting the moon* for all its connection to the real world. In fact I think they take the piss out of it in 22 Jump Street ("why is it so dark in here?")

I hope to have other thoughts later on this subject as I do watch a lot .

*credit to Charlie Brooker I think for that analogy - although not about CSI:Miami

[itsfredtitmus]

the handheld is surely what gives it to the gritty verite look surely?

[paruses]

Sure. I really meant more how it seems almost quaint and a bit wooden but that's viewing it from 25 years after the fact. It's much much better than a lot of today's slick, relevant output.

I have to be honest and say I can't really remember the storylines from what I watched - apart from Munch opening a bar but that's every episode he's in - I think maybe it seemed a bit heavy handed getting its (very good) point across.

[itsfredtitmus]

I'm interested in going through NYPD Blue and Hill Street Blues but they both have a billion episodes in each unlike british shows that usually only have 5 or 6 in every season

[paruses]

I loved Hill Street Blues when I was younger - and I don't think it's just because I was younger - and watched it religiously with my grandfather of a Saturday evening. The only downside is where they show the execution of the guy who rape and killed the nun. I think that has had a very profound affect on me.

I watched a few a little while back as it's all (or was all) on 4OD. I found it pretty cartoonish though and gave up rather than sully its memory. Maybe I should have a retrospective.

Never got into NYPD Blue just down it being shown at a time in my life when I was rarely in the house of an evening. Isn't that the one that made David Caruso think he was the star so he binned it for fame and fortune only discover he had badly misread the situation and ended up looking in bins for food until CSI: Glasses?

The sheer volume does put me off too with these things and I end up googling "best episodes of <x>" to get going.

[Famous Mortimer]

Fan of Criminal Minds but have also fallen way behind. Was very pleased to see Shamar Moore gone - although I liked hate watching him. He managed to portray one of the unintentionally least sensitive and most hypocritical characters I can think of. Disappointed to hear he will have his own procedural.

I agree - when he came back for his guest spot at the end of season 12, it reminded me how much him and his banter with Penelope would annoy me. I really like his replacement, too - Adam Rodriguez is all macho and that, but I like his character and the relationship with Penelope.

I liked the long story arc of the super killer. Saw a bit of Spenser in prison but it didn't really wash. Also hate the bits where the "deliver the profile" (in quotes because that is a catchphrase) and then stand in a line and each one says a little bit - bugs the hell out of me.

Overall though am glad it exists.

I completely abandoned it after 6 seasons or so (there's plenty of my old posts from here years back loving it) and missed the Jeanne Tripplehorn and Jennifer Love Hewitt years - started back in season 11. I'm really glad I'm back though, I've got it on VLC and am writing and such while it's playing. It's a comforting presence.

And the "let's deliver the profile" bit - do they rehearse which bits they're going to say? Do they ever disagree with each other? Does one of them ever say something and the other goes "I wanted that line"?

CSI (original) is the only one I really like although a the bit of the New Orleans one  I have seen is OK. The New York I just find dull for some reason. The glasses one is too hypocritical outside the lab and too ridiculous inside - by the end it might as well have been set in a giant tit orbiting the moon* for all its connection to the real world. In fact I think they take the piss out of it in 22 Jump Street ("why is it so dark in here?")

The only other one I watch a lot is Law And Order:SVU, the one with Christopher Meloni and Mariska Hargitay in it. Only because someone at work puts on the channel that seems to exist to show nothing but it on in the main room and I can't be bothered to change it.

[paruses]

I agree - when he came back for his guest spot at the end of season 12, it reminded me how much him and his banter with Penelope would annoy me. I really like his replacement, too - Adam Rodriguez is all macho and that, but I like his character and the relationship with Penelope.

"Talk to me baby girl" - is definitely responsible for a number of footprints on my TV screen. Luckily it's an old CRT and I am very weak. Do you think in the Criminal Minds universe that Penelope has conversations with the other characters along the lines - "Seriously, Penelope, if it makes you feel uncomfortable you should say something" "Yea, but I really don't want to make a big thing but maybe I could talk to HR in confidence".

They seem to have replaced like for like but turned down the smugness. Adam Rodriquez has definitely found a character type he can play, hasn't he? I was a bit surprised when I saw a bit of an episode with him in, but not realizing he was a new character, that it wasn't a cross-over ep.

I completely abandoned it after 6 seasons or so (there's plenty of my old posts from here years back loving it) and missed the Jeanne Tripplehorn and Jennifer Love Hewitt years - started back in season 11. I'm really glad I'm back though, I've got it on VLC and am writing and such while it's playing. It's a comforting presence.

And the "let's deliver the profile" bit - do they rehearse which bits they're going to say? Do they ever disagree with each other? Does one of them ever say something and the other goes "I wanted that line"?

From experience of doing standing meetings at work you can guarantee that two of them would stand forward at the same time, thus fucking up the slickness, and that one would correct another earlier bit with something about how they spoke to Mike Reynolds earlier and so we're just waiting on a decision about that. Also, one of them would have some vagueness / excuse about how they've not yet had a chance to look over the notes as they had a load of emails to get through what with being off on Monday but they're getting to it right after this.

I liked the Tripplehorn and JLH episodes I saw. You've put me in a mood to have a bit of a watch tonight.
[/quote]

The only other one I watch a lot is Law And Order:SVU, the one with Christopher Meloni and Mariska Hargitay in it. Only because someone at work puts on the channel that seems to exist to show nothing but it on in the main room and I can't be bothered to change it.

I quite like that but it gets a bit samey on a binge with them almost looking to camera at the end saying "See, it's not always straight forward". Also, that's Jayne Mansfield's daughter.

There were also a few stupidly hammy episodes with the guy from Terriers.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Castle really shat the bed didn't it? I really enjoyed the first few series but it went right off the boil.

Does Person Of Interest count as a procedural? It's quite 'villainof the week' but does have overarching plots...

Early on it's very procedural, but I'm knee deep in series 4 and that's mostly been abandoned in favour of Root shooting two guns at once.

[Famous Mortimer]

I presume I was vaguely aware that Rodriguez was also on CSI: Miami, but until I looked, pareses, I had no idea what you were talking about. I'm definitely in favour of crossovers though. The bloke they had on in season 12, the middle-aged black fella, was a weird choice as he was a little too relaxed and low-key for a show about mass-murderers and serial killers (plus, Joe Mantegna has the low-key member of the team thing down).

I'm binging season 13, so it feels like ten minutes since Shemar Moore was back the last time (but is, in show time, about 6 months, which is fine for multiple visits from a former co-worker). They also used the exact same excuse - kids - for writing him and Thomas Gibson out of the cast, which must annoy FBI agents who manage to catch killers and still have families.

I don't know if they're still knocking new ones out, but Castle is now a book series, but books as if they're written by Castle, not starring him. Clever idea, I guess?

[paruses]

Has he brought a dog in with him and the new head of the unit has had to ask him to stop disturbing people? That would cheer me up no end.

Have not seen season 12 so going to dip in and out. I do like the idea of a low key, underachieving team member (though I'm sure that's not what you mean). If I had any wit about me I would like to write a straight-played version of Criminal Minds.


This cross over thing has reminded me of Chicago Fire and also Chicago PD. They did a triple crossover with L&O:SVU (which went on for about 4 episodes but was quite good - I just misjudged the amount of time I had to set aside). Anyone like these? They felt like a sort of guilty pleasure while watching.

PD was a sort of mainstream Shield but with less criminality. There are no likeable characters and the lead is played by the Californication guy who played the slightly unhinged bi-sexual writer that David D's wet wife went off with in about Season 3 - I found it a bit difficult to take him seriously based on his character in that.

[Famous Mortimer]

My favourite crossover is Richard Belzer being the same character on the "Law and Order" shows as he was on "Homicide: Life On The Street".

I downloaded all of "CSI: Cyber" because it might be fun to see how wrong the middle-aged writers get the internet, but I've never started on it. Plus, Patricia Arquette, whatshisname from Ally McBeal and James Van Der Beek sounds like a strange bunch of casting.

The two times when Shemar Moore came back so far on Criminal Minds, he appeared to Penelope first, just moseying round a corner like that's a thing civilians are allowed to do at FBI headquarters (even if they used to work there). Until other people saw him too, I thought it'd be funny if they did this two or three times, over the course of a few seasons, until they revealed he's been dead for a year and Penelope's completely losing her mind. People start acting a little cagey round her and she can't figure out why, that sort of thing.

[Harpo Speaks]

My favourite crossover is Richard Belzer being the same character on the "Law and Order" shows as he was on "Homicide: Life On The Street".

Little cameo in The Wire too of course. And shows up in Arrested Development as Munch running the 'scrapbooking class' sting.

[kngen]

Little cameo in The Wire too of course. And shows up in Arrested Development as Munch running the 'scrapbooking class' sting.

He turns up on the other end of a phone call in something too, but fucked if I can remember what it is.

[BeardFaceMan]

Munch turns up pretty much everywhere - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Munch#Appearances_and_crossovers

[kngen]

Think it might have been Luther I was thinking of (and not on the phone)

[studpuppet]

I think we can count Endeavour as procedural can't we? I dismissed it as a load of horse-flogging, ratings-raking pap, but I'm coming to the conclusion I was wrong. I accidentally tuned in one episode when I heard this:

Day Today homage

Turns out all the episodes are written by a lone writer - here's an interview:
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-02-16/meet-endeavour-writer-russell-lewis-a-real-man-of-mystery/

And here are some more homages:

Jurassic Park

Dirty Harry

Jaws

Last week was riffing on the plot of If...

I also like the fact that the series has a definite timeline, in that you can pinpoint beginnings and ends of cases to the day based on the news stories on the radio etc.

Anyway - I've gone back and started watching the first series to see if there are any other nods to less obvious cultural touchstones along the way.

[Famous Mortimer]

Criminal Minds is doing the bit where the Director questions the methods of the unit, forcing the chief agent to go through all their old cases. I would hope that FBI management pays a bit more attention to its most famous unit than a performance review once every few years; also, the idea that the group who've single-handedly stopped hundreds of mass-murderers and serial killers would so consistently generate hostility from their superiors is a weird one.

I'm very nearly caught up now. Might be time to do all of CSI.

[paruses]

I've always found that trope an odd one - unless there is a huge conspiracy arc coming in a couple of seasons about how the FBI is secretly run by serial killers and the unit is just catching too many of them, godammit!

One particular thing that has always stood out like a wonky picture frame is how Spenser is effectively a deputized agent - something I am almost 100% certain would not be allowed - since in the pilot he was Princess Bride's teaching assistant at a university and not only that he is allowed to have a quirky gun which is not even an automatic and hangs in a holster round his waist like a cowboy's  in a western (and not even like a Gary Cooper character would wear - more like a Mexican bandido).

Where would you watch CSI? I've found the original franchise in particular very difficult to get hold of.

[Famous Mortimer]

I definitely wouldn't torrent them, that's for sure.

I'm right up to date now, and I'm wondering if / hoping that they're doing an arc where Hotch is going to come back, like Thomas Gibson has done all his anger management rehab, apologised to the rest of the cast and crew, and in-show he's doing some deep undercover thing to root out the evil Deputy Director.

I like an arc, and last season's with Scratch and Spencer was a good 'un. This one is a proper puzzler, though, and it seems to be going out of its way to show that the FBI is a garbage organisation entirely staffed by idiots who don't care about America. That may well be true, of course, but it's weird for a major-network procedural to be so contemptuous of law enforcement. Makes me think about NCIS, which gets on its hands and knees to fellate the armed forces with every chance it gets.

PS - there's a thing about the bad guys wanting Joe Mantegna to retire and, well, they might have a point - he's 71 years old. A well-maintained 71, for sure, but perhaps he oughtn't be in the field going to toe-to-toe with murderers at his age.

PPS - Perd Hapley off of Parks and Rec is the boss of cyber-crimes!

PPPS - oh, they wrapped it up like they realised it was terrible. Good work, show!

[Isnt Anything]

Ive not been able to get into Endeavour as i just cannot accept that bloke as a young Morse.

[Flouncer]

Third Watch was pretty awesome, in its prime (it wore a bit thin towards the end, as often happens with American shows that have loads of episodes in a series)... It had some realistic, likeable characters in it that you ended up giving a shit about as the series went on. I haven't watched it for years so maybe I'm remembering it a bit naively but I used to really enjoy it. I don't think it gets a lot of love... It was a pretty ambitious concept, combining the three emergency services, but it was done well and it worked, for me anyway.

[Famous Mortimer]

I never messed with "Third Watch", but I might put it on my list.

While I'm waiting for all the CSIs to be, er, delivered, I'm giving "Unforgettable" a go, if only for its stupid central premise - Poppy Montgomery is a former cop who remembers literally everything, and (I presume, as I'm only on the first episode) gets re-hired back as a special consultant or something.

As soon as my sleep patterns are back to normal, or I have a job which sucks a little less and gives me normal office hours, I may go back to meatier entertainment. Or maybe I'm just a guy who watches all this shit now.

[studpuppet]

Ive not been able to get into Endeavour as i just cannot accept that bloke as a young Morse.

Know what you mean, but I'm starting think that old Morse was just Jack Regan with a OU Classics degree in comparison.

The one cloying part of the whole series is that they've imbued the Roger Allam character with a lot of traits that old Morse has (drinking beer, world-weariness). Mind you, I haven't seen the originals since they were first transmitted, so I might go back and have another look. I know that certain characters are in both (eg. the uniformed copper in Endeavour becomes the Chief Superintendent that James 'Box Of Delights' Grout plays in Morse), and Endeavour has certainly been made with the same care that Morse was.

[Isnt Anything]

Oh i agree, whenever ive caught a bit when visiting relatives it seems as well-made as ever, but my brain just keeps screaming 'does not compute ! does not compute !' every time Shaun Evans appears on screen. Not his fault, bless him, and the voice isnt bad, but he just doesnt look like him at all.

Its made worse by the fact that the wonderful Roger Allam is brilliant as the - as you point out - surrogate grown-up-Morse figure.

If like i just did you google 'young John Thaw' to see what the fuck they were thinking, the first hit is actually a comparison between John Thaw in 1964 and Shaun Evans in 2009, and to be honest its closer than you might think, especially across the eyes, but the big problem is the nose !! Thaw had that great big hooter whereas Evans has that tiny little turned up button thing. Now ive done that i can totally see my brains problem with him. Should have given him a throatwobbler-mangrove.

P.S. Thanks for the young Grout info, ill look out for that next time i catch a bit.